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Ohlsson & Rice Restoration553

Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

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Re: Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

Post  mitchg95 on Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:40 pm

looks awesome, cant wait for more updates

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Re: Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

Post  Ivanhoe on Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:49 am

I finally got an exact date on this engine, thanks to the helpful folks on the "Ignition Treasures" thread on RC Groups. It's actually 1948 manufacture, later modified to front rotary induction.
Nice to know just how old it is!

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Re: Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

Post  SuperDave on Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:37 am

Wilf:

I believe that I mentioned the possibility of the modfication when you first posted about the O&R but now you have it from an authoratative source as well as an acturate date of manufacture.

Nice detective work, Inspector!

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Re: Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

Post  Ivanhoe on Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:42 pm

SuperDave wrote:Wilf:

I believe that I mentioned the possibility of the modfication when you first posted about the O&R but now you have it from an authoratative source as well as an acturate date of manufacture.

Nice detective work, Inspector!

Thanks, I got a copy of the original instruction leaflet, and the conversion kits are listed on it, $5.00 for the front case and a replacement crankshaft!


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Re: Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

Post  Ivanhoe on Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:46 pm

proctor wrote:Mine is serial no 405575 would be nice to know year. Mine has been
converted to glow by simply putting pressed tin cover over timing cam,
as many of the old sparkies were. Mine has an insert in intake throat
held in by the needle valve assembly, presumably to reduce power for
free flight and easily removed for CL

http://i46.servimg.com/u/f46/17/26/04/06/twin_l14.jpg
http://i46.servimg.com/u/f46/17/26/04/06/twin_l15.jpg

You can just see residue of red paint on head.
Mine is probably O&R 19 rather than a 23
John

I've just discovered that the intake insert was standard on these engines John, but is obviously missing from mine, any chance that you could take a picture down the intake so that I'd have some idea what to look out for?

thanks

Wilf

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Re: Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

Post  TN Flyer on Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:10 pm

I am a SAM flyer and stumbled upon this thread about Ohlsson and Rice engines. Hope you have a lot of fun with your O&R. I have two .60 specials, and three .23's. One of the .23's is a front rotor like yours. I ran it on glow until I was able to find a spark coil.

The only thing I would caution about running an Ohlsson on glow is use 0% nitro fuel (also called FAI fuel). I understand the nitromethane attacks the gasket mentioned previously between the cylinder and the case. Also the engines were not the hottest performers back in the day and weren't intended to be. The spot weld holding the cylinder on can fail under the increased pressure from nitromethane in the fuel. They have been known to blow the cylinders off when run on fuel containing nitro. If that happens the engine is most likely ruined. It's correct that the cylinders are spot welded on and there was only one gentleman known who had the ability to repair one. Unfortunately he has passed on in the last year or so.

If you have a coil, the engine will run as an ignition engine on either alcohol based or gasoline fuel. My current mixture is 3:1 Coleman lantern fuel and 60wt Valvoline racing oil. My .60 turns a Master Airscrew 13X6 S-2 scimitar at 7900 rpm on this fuel. Just no nitro!!!!

If it helps, and your engine is leaking a bit around the gasket I found that a bead of J-B Weld seal it just fine. It might look sort of funny but it stopped one of mine from leaking at the gasket. It was seeping oil down the side when it was running and now it doesnt. So far it works.

Hope this all helps. Welcome to the joys of spark engines.



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Re: Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

Post  Ivanhoe on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:44 am

TN Flyer wrote:I am a SAM flyer and stumbled upon this thread about Ohlsson and Rice engines. Hope you have a lot of fun with your O&R. I have two .60 specials, and three .23's. One of the .23's is a front rotor like yours. I ran it on glow until I was able to find a spark coil.

The only thing I would caution about running an Ohlsson on glow is use 0% nitro fuel (also called FAI fuel). I understand the nitromethane attacks the gasket mentioned previously between the cylinder and the case. Also the engines were not the hottest performers back in the day and weren't intended to be. The spot weld holding the cylinder on can fail under the increased pressure from nitromethane in the fuel. They have been known to blow the cylinders off when run on fuel containing nitro. If that happens the engine is most likely ruined. It's correct that the cylinders are spot welded on and there was only one gentleman known who had the ability to repair one. Unfortunately he has passed on in the last year or so.

If you have a coil, the engine will run as an ignition engine on either alcohol based or gasoline fuel. My current mixture is 3:1 Coleman lantern fuel and 60wt Valvoline racing oil. My .60 turns a Master Airscrew 13X6 S-2 scimitar at 7900 rpm on this fuel. Just no nitro!!!!

If it helps, and your engine is leaking a bit around the gasket I found that a bead of J-B Weld seal it just fine. It might look sort of funny but it stopped one of mine from leaking at the gasket. It was seeping oil down the side when it was running and now it doesnt. So far it works.

Hope this all helps. Welcome to the joys of spark engines.

Thank you, and welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy your time here.

I'm hoping to try the engine as a glow just to see if it's worth spending the not inconsiderable cost of a replacement breaker assembly, which would cost me $50 or so, plus shipping from the States. I am waiting on a prop drive washer which has been offered to me by someone on the "Ignition Treasures" thread on RC Groups, I have found a Veco NVA which fits the engine, and even looks nearly correct, so once I get a means to hold the prop on I can try it out. I guessed that nitro would be a no-no on an engines this old! Thanks for the tip about a leaking head gasket, I was wondering if something like that might be possible in the event, but since my engine is 1948 I'm hoping it's the later alloy gasket on it.
If I can get the engine running as a spark ignition I have the ideal model for it, a 1949 Keil Kraft Junior 60, which I built a while back for a modern engine, but the O&R would be perfect for that!

Wilf

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Re: Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

Post  Ivanhoe on Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:17 am

Some progress made.........



The needle valve assembly is actually a Veco setup, but looks quite similar to the original.
I oil blued the new prop nut to look more in keeping, it's original bright polished finish looked far too new. I am waiting on new bolts to hold the crankcase together, there was only one on it when I got it, I have also made a new gasket for the joint between the two crankcase halves.
I have the prop driver and washer on the way, thanks to the generosity of someone on the RC Groups forum, and once they are fitted I will be able to see if the old girl will fire up!

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Re: Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

Post  TN Flyer on Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:40 pm

Hi Wilf, and others.
The Veco needle and spraybar will likely be an improvement over the original anyway. The Ohlsson NVAs were coarse thread and very touchy to set. Then they vibrated around after that. Trys your patience lol! The Veco is probably fine thread and will be much easier to set. I have replaced most of my original NVAs with old AustinCraft ones for the same reason. Now about the venturi insert,, Yes it was standard on Ohlsson front rotor engines. They don't have as much fuel draw as a side port or as our modern engines as well. The insert causes a restriction in the venturi increasing suction for better fuel draw. Lots of times they will not run with out the insert in place. You might have to put it back in if won't draw fuel. If you dont have the insert a sliver of wood might be a good substitute. it just reduces the ventri size like the metal insert. One more thing to note!!! If the engine has an original plastic ohlsson fuel tank do not put alcohol based fuel in this tank. It likely will dissolve before your eyes, or at least after a flight or two. They were made for gasoline and the alcohol melts them.A pill bottle can be used to make a both alcohol and gasoline compatible tank. A metal aftermarket tank or one of the modern clunk tanks will work with glow fuel. With aftermarket tanks, the tank placement will be critical as we go back to the fuel draw ability again. Hope this helps. Still with all the differences I love these old sparkers.

As A SAM competitior flying 1/2A texaco R/C I have a collection of .049 reed valves as well. I think I'm gonna like it here. 1/2A texaco can be one of the most difficult competition events as the Cox reedies are so critical as to cleanliness and tuning technique. My best .049 gives pretty consistant engine runs of 3-1/2 to 4 min on the 5.1cc tank. I competed this past year on the East Tennessee SAM Chapter 43 team in the International 1/2A Texaco postal challenge. We came in second place to a team from Ohio
Til later,
Tim

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Re: Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

Post  Puffie40 on Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:30 pm

Were did you get the Veco NVA? I might consider throwing one on our .29 if we ever get it running.

TN: Concerning "Sparker" fuel (Or two-stroke Very Happy), what kind of oil would you recommend for the O&R, and at what mixture?

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Re: Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

Post  Ivanhoe on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:05 pm

I was concerned about the engine's fuel drawing ability, from the size of the venturi I get a bit worried I might fall down it one of these days! I'll try unrestricted first but if I have any problems I'll stick a bit of wood down it until I can get the correct insert.

I've been weighing up the chances of running it on spark ignition, taking into account the cost of a repro contact breaker, coil, etc., I realise that I'll be in for about $80 plus shipping, sensibly, I can get a complete spark engine for that much, more or less ready-to-go, so unless I can somehow find used parts (Which as far as I can see tend to sell for even more!) I am beginning to think that it's not a sensible idea.
So she may only be going to run as a glow unfortunately.

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Re: Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

Post  Ivanhoe on Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:46 pm

Puffie40 wrote:Were did you get the Veco NVA? I might consider throwing one on our .29 if we ever get it running.

TN: Concerning "Sparker" fuel (Or two-stroke Very Happy), what kind of oil would you recommend for the O&R, and at what mixture?

I got the Veco NVA off US Ebay, I think I paid around $12 for it, I bought it origionally to go in a McCoy Torpedo 19. To use it in the O&R you need to put a spacer on the fuel inlet side to centre the spraybar hole in the venturi, which it also needed on the McCoy.

Sparker fuel mixture is usually quoted as 4:1 petrol/oil, using the lowest octane rating you can get, and 70w oil (Which I understand is not easy to get hold of, although I believe specialist motor bike suppliers carry it)

Wilf

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Re: Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

Post  Ivanhoe on Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:08 pm

Tim, if you are flying SAM 1/2A, do you know this one?



Fox .049 FAI Special, I found this on EBay missing various bits for very little money, got the bits to restore it and it is a VERY fast little beast.
And, of course, the Holland Hornet, discussed elsewhere in the Forum, which was THE .049 for competition work back in my day.

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Re: Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

Post  TN Flyer on Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:03 pm

Puffie40 wrote:Were did you get the Veco NVA? I might consider throwing one on our .29 if we ever get it running.

TN: Concerning "Sparker" fuel (Or two-stroke Very Happy), what kind of oil would you recommend for the O&R, and at what mixture?

Hello, My current mix is 3:1 coleman camping fuel and 60wt Valvoline "racing" oil. The camping fuel is what sone people call "white gas"

Wilf is right about the 70wt motorcycle oil. The shops that cater to Harley Davidson bikes usually have it. The older harleys used it for crankcase oil. 60 wt motor oil will work just the same The Valvoline 60wt is a substitute used by auto racers and motorcyclists here locally.

I tried some 87 octane petrol and Klotz be-nol at 3:1.Put the engine on the test stand, I had a wet prime and on the first flip the engine didnt start but the flame that flickered at the exhaust stack til I got it put out was kind of alarming. Wouldnt want silk and dope near that.

I went back to camp fuel and 60wt. The Ohlssons seem to like it just fine. My .60 is running 2min 13 seconds on 20cc of it. 7900 RPM.
Hope this helps.
Tim

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Re: Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

Post  nitroairplane on Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:22 pm

TN Flyer wrote:
Puffie40 wrote:Were did you get the Veco NVA? I might consider throwing one on our .29 if we ever get it running.

TN: Concerning "Sparker" fuel (Or two-stroke Very Happy), what kind of oil would you recommend for the O&R, and at what mixture?

Hello, My current mix is 3:1 coleman camping fuel and 60wt Valvoline "racing" oil. The camping fuel is what sone people call "white gas"

Wilf is right about the 70wt motorcycle oil. The shops that cater to Harley Davidson bikes usually have it. The older harleys used it for crankcase oil. 60 wt motor oil will work just the same The Valvoline 60wt is a substitute used by auto racers and motorcyclists here locally.

I tried some 87 octane petrol and Klotz be-nol at 3:1.Put the engine on the test stand, I had a wet prime and on the first flip the engine didnt start but the flame that flickered at the exhaust stack til I got it put out was kind of alarming. Wouldnt want silk and dope near that.

I went back to camp fuel and 60wt. The Ohlssons seem to like it just fine. My .60 is running 2min 13 seconds on 20cc of it. 7900 RPM.
Hope this helps.
Tim
White gas is Naphtha and that is lighter fluid.

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Re: Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

Post  TN Flyer on Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:27 pm

Ivanhoe wrote:Tim, if you are flying SAM 1/2A, do you know this one?



Fox .049 FAI Special, I found this on EBay missing various bits for very little money, got the bits to restore it and it is a VERY fast little beast.
And, of course, the Holland Hornet, discussed elsewhere in the Forum, which was THE .049 for competition work back in my day.

Oh yes, I have seen one of those. Nice find and a nice engine for sure. Unfortunately they are not legal to fly in our 1/2A SAM events here in the states. We can fly reed valve Cox .049 only in both free flight and R/C SAM competitions. They can have a max prop diameter of 8 inches and have 5.1cc max fuel. We can fly the .051TeeDee in A class though. However that Fox might be a potent little devil for Nostalgia R/C assist. That would be sweet in a 33" Zeek with a micro radio for rudder/elevator.

The 1/2A texaco events are "fuel mileage" events. The only mods permitted are needle valve extensions, and converting a large tanked reedie to the small 5.1cc tank. We run larger (8X4) props on them to load em down to around 8500 RPM. The thrust is still there but the fuel lasts a lot longer at the lower RPM. They usually run about 4 min on the fuel allotment. Then the event turns into a thermal gliding event with a max flight time of 15 min. Score is total of best two of three flights one point/second in the air.
lots of fun and quite the challenge. Getting good consistant motor runs is the key to good placing.

Congrats on finding a really cool engine.
Tim

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Re: Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

Post  Ivanhoe on Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:16 am

Well, I finally got the drive washer, but unfortunately, big dissapointment, I can't get the engine to run.
I think the problem is the NVA, the engine will fire, and fire continuously when I use the electric starter, but it won't run.
I've tried restricting the venturi, since the original restrictor is missing, to no avail, so it looks like the O&R is just for looking at for now.

Great pity!

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Re: Ohlsson & Rice Restoration

Post  TN Flyer on Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:50 pm

Hi Wilf,
Sorry you are still having trouble with the Ohlsson. I agree that the trouble seems to be fuel delivery related. Just a thought,,, how is the hole in the spraybar oriented??? Double check and make sure they are at a right angle to the airflow throught the venturi. Put the spraybar in and look down the venturi, turn it to where you can see the hole(s), then turn it a quarter turn to place the opening at a right angle to the venturi . You should not be able to see the openings. I have had them turn as I tightened the spraybar before and that will make fuel draw inadequate. Keep trying, the sound that old long stroker will make is worth the effort.

The wife and I took my ignition Ohlsson .60 powered Flying Quaker out and flew it today. A bit windy here but still a beautiful day.

Good Luck, til later
Tim

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