Re: Baby Flite Streak build thread, Q&A

[Ken Cook]

Rusty, I had a lot of people tell me that Monokote is no good due to weight. I truly don't believe that to be entirely true. I certainly think Ultra and also Monokote make a fairly light finish and really durable. The other plus is that you can twist and tweak the wing with a little ironing a lot easier than you can do with dope and silkspan. I got a pic of my Flitestreak. All up weight is 7.48 oz's. I think that may a be a bit porky. That's 3 brushed coats to seal wood, one brushed attachment coat for silkspan, 2 brushed coats to fill silkspan. The entire plane was sprayed white mainly a blocker coat. The other trim colors were masked and sprayed followed by two spray coats of clear. Colors were Brodak and final clear coats were Sig Lite Coat. A lot of work actually. I'm quite sure I could've knocked 3/4 oz's from this plane doing a bit more sanding. Ken

[ZACATTACK]

What would be a weight comparison with Monokote vs your job Ken?? Nice plane!!

[RknRusty]

Yeah, that's a pretty one. You have what I plan to do, an aluminum plate between the engine and the wood. I want to do that on both sides. Have you ever had a hard nose-in crash?

[Ken Cook]

Rusty, I did have a bad crash, The Flitestreak has a decent airfoil. It can get a little floaty so don't get caught into the wind at the end of the flight without power. I guess I wasn't paying enough attention to the fuel economy and I was overhead as well. The plane sailed across the circle and I did the no no of running for line tension. When the plane jerked it broke one of the leadouts off of the bellcrank. No structural damage but I do the beefing up internally as well. It certainly took a hard nose shot. The tail though broke directly behind the wing. With all the weight from the stab and rudder it just whipped over and broke. I was pretty upset by that. I was able to get inside and put a new leadout in by crimping it. This kind of reminds me of your experience with the fire. I clipped the tail of the leadout with cable cutters. There was a little fray of cable that kept catching on a rib. I took the Dremel with a stone to deburr it. It grabbed the leadout ripping it through the wing and breaking all kinds of stuff. I'd like to do that plate as one solid plate on the engine side. Ken

[John Goddard]

There's a school of thought over here Rusty that wood glue/aliphatics
Are best due to being flexible and indeed among other benefits lead to
A quieter model. Something to do with resonances.
I say "pass me that kicker".

[RknRusty]

Rusty, I did have a bad crash, The Flitestreak has a decent airfoil. It can get a little floaty so don't get caught into the wind at the end of the flight without power. I guess I wasn't paying enough attention to the fuel economy and I was overhead as well. The plane sailed across the circle and I did the no no of running for line tension. When the plane jerked it broke one of the leadouts off of the bellcrank. No structural damage but I do the beefing up internally as well. It certainly took a hard nose shot. The tail though broke directly behind the wing. With all the weight from the stab and rudder it just whipped over and broke. I was pretty upset by that. I was able to get inside and put a new leadout in by crimping it. This kind of reminds me of your experience with the fire. I clipped the tail of the leadout with cable cutters. There was a little fray of cable that kept catching on a rib. I took the Dremel with a stone to deburr it. It grabbed the leadout ripping it through the wing and breaking all kinds of stuff. I'd like to do that plate as one solid plate on the engine side. Ken

Sounds like what happened to my Jumpin' Bean. It went slack way up high and I couldn't backtrack enough so I whipped my left arm over the lines to pull the slack out. I jerked the whole bellcrank platform out of the housing and it crashed through 3 ribs before stopping. All followed by a full power nose-in crash. I realized I had weakened the bellcrank mounting by repeatedly pulling it out of the stooge with the lines. When I built it, I didn't envision using such a stooge.

On the Flitestreak I bolstered the crank assembly inside and out, Here are the outside braces:

Look at the front of that W1 rib and you can see where I set it ablaze.

I was trying to see in your picture, Ken, are you running pressure to the fuel tank, and what engine is that?

There's a school of thought over here Rusty that wood glue/aliphatics
Are best due to being flexible and indeed among other benefits lead to
A quieter model. Something to do with resonances.
I say "pass me that kicker".

Haha, yeah, build 'em loud!

[Ken Cook]

Rusty, I couldn't agree with you more beefing up the platform area of the bellcrank. I do it on all models actually. I try and install webbing or 1/4" x 1/4" under the platform if I can. On my Flitestreak I'm just using a standard vent tank. I just cap the top. On this tank the feed line came out the front. This put the feed directly into the cylinder head. I rerouted the feed to the bottom. You don't need both vents open to the atmosphere to work upright or inverted. When running, without that vent it was causing a siphoning effect which was blowing raw fuel all over the model. I believe it's just the way the airflow was blowing over the cylinder head on this model. Capping one of the vents can improve your fuel draw as well. It just appears to look like a pressure setup. The engine on the plane is a Norvel Big Mig. I'm not happy with this one. I have several and this one just won't turn up. I've compared many of the Big Mig venturi sizes and this one was the smallest. I drilled it out to the same size as the others and no improvement at least one that I can tell. I have one of the engines on a overweight plane of roughly the same sq inch wing and it runs unbelievable. I removed the muffler and still very little improvement. I just may have an engine with an extremely tight fitting crank. I built this originally for a Tee Dee. I may just go back to that idea. I just wish I built the plane with a bladder compartment within the wing. I do that now on all of my larger Streaks. Have you checked your weight prior to covering? I would love to know what it weighs in at now and when finished. I know Lew raised the question . I just checked a Brodak Baby Clown arf and was really impressed by its weight. My Baby Clown with Black Widow is under 6 oz's. I know this isn't a good comparison as I'm sure there is more parts in a Flitestreak but that is quite light. Ken

[RknRusty]

After I glue the stab and rudder on it tonight I'll weigh it. I still need to fix a chipped rib edge and sand it before it's ready for covering. I'll probably put a bladder holder where the wedge is supposed to go. They can be interchangeable. I haven't ordered the recommended 3/8oz. tank tank yet.

[RknRusty]

Why not Ultrakote the fuselage Rusty?? You can apply this covering anywhere on the plane I believe!!??

Okay Zac, I'll rethink this. I went to the LHS today and they had the right colors of Monokote but no Lustrekote paint to match it, not even the clearcoat. I figured, okay I need a fuel tank from Brodak, I'll get both, but they only have Perfect brand paint. And $9 damn dollars to ship. As yet I can't find any place that has both things I need.

So, I figured, what the hell, I have a 6' roll of white, red and dark blue. Can you or someone give me a quick tutorial on how to cover the fuse with Monokote? I'll try to look it up too. Hopefully Mono is as easy as Ultra to apply. I don't need any help covering the wing, just tips and tricks about the fuse, tail, etc. And maybe your thoughts about adding the colored parts over the base white covering on the wing.

The assembly is complete. The overhead view of Kens plane showed me exactly what I needed to see about the rudder. For all the bumbling and trying to put things on backwards seem to I do, it turned out nearly perfect. I learned a few things building this one that made it apparent what some of the flyability problems with my other planes are. This is my third built-up wing plane, all the rest were slats.

When I put the wing in the fuse it lined up perfectly with each wingtip exactly the same height as the center reference line on the fuse. That's a first. There's usually a minor warp or some evasive little problem. They gave me 7.25" of fabric to make 8 1" hinges, so I cut them all 1/8" short. That worked out and I made sure the top was the prettiest. Then I carefully aligned it, checking 27 times with my engineering compasses and glued it in place... ugly side up. But the tail and rudder are perfectly squared up in every direction. I did cut a new rudder with the grain running parallel to the TE, out of 1/8" instead of 3/32" and sanded as much airfoil shape into the inboard side as I could. I'm actually a good sander despite all my other shortcomings. I think this is going to be the best flying plane I've built. It just seems big for a Tee Dee .051












Anyway, whatever I end up doing, next I'm going to make fillets, something I've never worried about any more than running my finger along a joint slathered with airplane glue. I bought some really light filler at the HS, and when I got it home, it looks just like the stuff I patch drywall with. It says on the container it's good for fillets, so that's good enough for me. I'm curious about what could I get next time that's better. Here it is:

[Ken Cook]

Rusty, I don't think your Tee Dee is going to be too small at all. When I was a kid, my neighbor had one which was built from the Top Flite kit. This wasn't the lightweight laser cut stuff. Left an impression stuck within me to last a lifetime. His plane is what led me to 1/2A enjoyment. Eric Rule from RSM kits the Pinto. The Pinto is a design based from it's bigger brother the Oriental. The plane was designed around a Tee Dee with 220 sq inches and a 34" wingspan. How large is the Flitestreak? I assume about 150 sq inches. I've found when covering a fuse with iron on covering that it was easier to do it ARF style. I cover everything first then I trim the covering where glue is required. This isn't an option for you right now. The Brodak arf basically has the seam line (joint) down the center of the fuse. I think you could carefully do this without that seam down the middle. I would cover one side entirely and trim flush around the entire perimeter of the fuse. Make the opposing piece to do the other side wider and longer so it overhangs the perimeter all the way around. Iron down the sides and where the overhang is you can iron around the top and bottom of the fuse entirely. You could then cleanly cut the rest of the overhanging material nice and straight to give you a clean say 1/8-1/4 inch overlap onto the other side of the fuse. I found it to be a bit tedious on larger models. Ken

[RknRusty]

I'm glad to hear that about the Tee Dee. I'm really looking forward to flying this baby. But man, that covering sounds like a royal pain. I'll have to sleep on it and take a look at it in the morning. Paint's looking like a much simpler option.

Here are the specs:
Wing Span: 26 1/4"
Plane Length: 17 1/2"
Wing Area: 150 sq. in.
I don't know the weight yet

[ZACATTACK]

Once you do it Rusty..You will never use Silk/Tissue/Dope/Thinner/Fuel Proofer/Paint etc. Again!!!! I screwed up 2 wing tips when learning for the first two times...Now..no problem. Monokote is my advise Rusty, 6' for $17.00!! You have covering to experiment with.Great stuff, fuel proof, looks awesome and you can make your own designs. Good Luck!

[Ken Cook]

Rusty, have you ever used microballoons and epoxy for fillets? I get the sweetest looking fillets this way. Mixing the epoxy using microballoons cuts the weight of the material almost in half. It does weaken the epoxy but not to the extent that you couldn't consider it structural still. The more microballoons the easier it is to sand. I always scuff sand them so they take paint better as it opens the pores on the spheres within the microballoon material. The stuff is virtually self leveling. Using a popsicle stick as a radius tool it places a beautiful looking fillet on a wing to fuse joint and also stab to fuse. Excess can easily and carefully wiped off. After the iron covering is on especially around the motor mount area and also wing to fuse joint you can thin some epoxy with denatured alcohol. This can turn the epoxy water thin. I prefer it to be a bit thick making it easier to get it onto the model then I heat the epoxy a bit with a heat gun and runs perfectly around the joint. All excess can be cleaned neatly with a q-tip and alcohol. I know that some people after they used the material you pictured, they would sand it and clean the dust off and let thin ca run all over it wiping it off with a paper towel. This would not only seal that material but would make it more structural so that it wouldn't crack. Ken

[RknRusty]

No, this is the first time I have been serious about making fillets. In the past, I have just used airplane glue and a finger. This plane is so nice, and so freakin expensive so far, I want to make it look professionally built. I think what I have will work fine. I'm not sure I should try to get the Monokote to stick to it, so I might have to paint those areas. I'll try it on some scrap first. I bought it and the HS is a 30 mile drive, so that's what I'm going with this time.

I did read about micro balloons and maybe next time I'll try it.

[Ken Cook]

Rusty, I know exactly what you mean by getting expensive. I see the three rolls of covering you have. I got to thinking as well. If memory serves me correctly, with the Brodak kit you also receive the plans, the build sheet, and also a outline of parts showing full size pieces like the fuse with the grain orientation. You just may be able to lay this sheet over your Monokote. Use a pin and prick through the paper into the Monokote. This would enable for you to make templates of the covering and get an accurate cutout for the wing. Just remember when making a template that you would need to mark one side on the face and the other side on the peel away backing so that you have a left and right. Not that you probably didn't know that. I always end up doing something like that then I'm like !@#$% !!! The nice thing is you can cover a lot planes with the leftover. Your plane looks real good. One thing is when covering a Flitestreak wingtip is to take your time. You have a complex compound curve that is really going to want to bunch up when your going from the wide section at the trailing edge to the very narrow at the leading edge. This isn't an easy task to do it without wrinkles. A heat gun can be your best friend. Your plane is looking real good and I'm sure your going to be quite impressed with it's performance. Ken

[andrew]

I did read about micro balloons and maybe next time I'll try it.

Microballoons work pretty well and come in two flavors, glass and phenolic. They do take a little practice in applying, mostly in getting the micro/epoxy ratios where you want them --- too thin and your filler runs; too thick and the mix will not stick or smooth out well.

The glass balloons are a little less expensive, whitish in color, completely inert and can be a bit more difficult to sand down. Phenolic balloons are reddish in color, sand more easily, cost more and may dissolve when exposed to certain solvents, particularly styrene based.

Both need some care in handling --- they are so light that they easily become airborne, so a dust mask is recommended when mixing.

I buy from the aircraft supply houses --- cheaper than the hobby suppliers.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/bubbles.php --- 1 lb. of balloons is a lifetime supply.

[ZACATTACK]

The only real time you need to use "poisonous" microballoons in the build is when you have Gaps...Other then that..there is no real need to use this product that I can see in Rusty's build. I mentioned poisonous because care and ventilation must be given & taken when using this product with epoxy, wear a dust mask when sanding. As far the grain of the wood goes, that Ken pointed out, he is correct about the grain, but you can cover all solid areas of balsa with silk-span/tissue prior to assembling the model or post assembly, this increases the balsa's strength tremendously, it also leaves a beautiful smooth finish where the grain of the wood becomes invisible to the admirer.This also has a dis advantage as well...weight, we hear this word all the time in control line model assembly, why not just go up an engine size when confronted with a weight issue,or a high performance version of the engine recommended. If you plan on Monokote Rusty, you very well might have to go into an .09 set-up with that plane...it's big for an .049 and by the look of your videos..you love a nimble fast plane that can do anything you ask of it..this might be a problem with the Baby Flight Streak, Monokoted, and .049 powered. There is a product by the name of Coverlite worth reasearching...basically the same procedure as Monokote but a lighter material... As far as expensive...well I'm kind of use to getting it on the chin in this hobby..I have expensive EDF Jets & Nitro Helicopters along with Control line stuff and when something goes wrong..its hundreds and hundreds of dollars...actually it makes me sick even to mention!!! Nice looking plane Rusty!

[RknRusty]

Thanks for the replies, guys. Mothers' Day superseded most of my modeling today. I did get a little sanding and shaping done, as well as hooking up the control horn and gluing on the flaps. So it's about built with only sanding, shaping and coating. Oh yeah, the LG. Only one wheel, too close to the ground for prop clearance. I guess this is strictly a hand or stooge launcher. Or I could leave the LG off since I fly over grass.
(paragraph break to separate thoughts and prevent readers from skimming, getting confused, or developing a migraine head-ache)
I have decided to paint the fuse. That'll be ten times easier than Monokoting it. Hopefully the color pattern is outlined on the plans, that would be a huge help. I don't think it will be too heavy as the ARFs are the same balsa with shrink covering. If it is, I suppose I'll get an .09, though that might make it too fast for my 35' line requirements of my field.
(paragraph break to separate thoughts and prevent readers from skimming, getting confused, or developing a migraine head-ache)
So tomorrow night I'll finish sanding and making the fillets and try to start covering it Tuesday. It would be nice if I could fly it by next weekend. The paint might not be ready by then. I'm going to look at making a bladder compartment in the wing. If I do that, I may add some fuselage braces on each side of where the tank was meant to mount. It looks like a great place to snap it in half in a crash. But, then, I'm not going to ever crash this one.

[ZACATTACK]

Havent built a Control Line for a while but what fillets are you talking about? Your model looks readt to cover Rusty>>

[RknRusty]

Just some nice curves where the wing and stab join with the fuse. It should be a simple bead along the joint and smoothed with a damp finger. It will hide the uneven bumps in the glue and make it look nice. Strictly cosmetic with no functional purpose.

[ZACATTACK]

Ever try painters tape and Epoxy Rusty?? Works a treat!! Just line up the tape to the width of your fillet desired and wait about 2 minutes with5 minute epoxy...peel off tape and Viola....nice edge...wait 24 hrs..sand....Works great...Use Iso Alcohol to clean up anything messy...

[RknRusty]

Ever try painters tape and Epoxy Rusty?? Works a treat!! Just line up the tape to the width of your fillet desired and wait about 2 minutes with5 minute epoxy...peel off tape and Viola....nice edge...wait 24 hrs..sand....Works great...Use Iso Alcohol to clean up anything messy...

That would probably work, just heavier than the Hobbylite compound I have. Masking it is a good idea. I am going to paint the engine mounting area with 60 minute epoxy glue for fuel proofing the wood. I;ll probably thin it a bit first so it soaks in.

[ZACATTACK]

Rusty..there's no probably...it works great..believe me. Just purchased another Vintage Cox Motor Rusty..It going in next months engine of the month. My Mark Tee Dee .15 this month is getting beat up!! I just purchased a Conquest with the original Box..real beauty..I would post a Pic but that would be sabotaging your thread!

[dinsdale]

... with 60 minute epoxy glue for fuel proofing the wood. I;ll probably thin it a bit first so it soaks in.

What do you use to thin epoxy glue? I'm assuming that it's 2 pack epoxy.

[John Goddard]

... with 60 minute epoxy glue for fuel proofing the wood. I;ll probably thin it a bit first so it soaks in.

What do you use to thin epoxy glue? I'm assuming that it's 2 pack epoxy.

Any alcohol spirit.
Knock up the 2 pack then stir in your Scotch, Meths or whatever you've got to hand.
I usually use 15 min, 5 min is a little too fast, 30 min has too much time to drip.

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