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Post  Ken Cook Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:15 pm

Rusty, here is a few pics of different sewn hings styles I used. To avoid confusion, I will just start with the colors. The yellow stab and elevator are completely bass. This is due to the abuse mouse racing takes. This type of wood requires predrilling and I predrill the balsa as well but it's not really necessary. The orange stab is a single elevator on a .40 size speed plane. The reason for the different threads was due to the black thread coming loose and needed to be redone. The plane does close to 135 mph and I was getting flutter which frayed the threads. The thread is heavy duty sewing thread and not standard thread. The newer threads is Kevlar thread. They're single stitched looping through each hole about 3 times. The red stab (blurry pic) is a Ultrakote stab and elevator. This is 3/16" material and sewn right through the elevator. The triangulated small stab is plywood. The red stab with the white stripes is all balsa no basswood and sewn with unwaxed dental floss then painted. I don't feel my hinges look unappealing in any way. Ken

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Post  JPvelo Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:50 pm

Ken, what type of knot do you tie off your thread with?
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Post  Ken Cook Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:34 pm

I myself tie the knot on the bottom as the finishing knot is a bit unsightly. I tie a clinch knot and then I secure with a drop of white glue. I'm not a big fan of CA. I think it's great stuff, but I find when gluing something like this, it wants to wick into the hinge area. It can be a little more time consuming. I can tell you though, it's quite free. Ken


Last edited by Ken Cook on Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Cribbs74 Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:14 pm

They look quite good Ken, I have shyed away from them and used the nylon hinges for mine. After your explanation the other day I can see why it may be a bad thing with them returning to neutral.

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Post  SuperDave Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:32 pm

IIRC, about a year ago we had a discussion of stiched hinges and Kim suggested some excellent ideas and posted several pictures of how he does them. (This was before Ken came on board CECF)

It is in the "search" file. Look under "stiched hinges. I just checked and they are still there.
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Post  Ken Cook Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:47 pm

Dave, what do those abbreviations stand for? I believe I've seen you mention them before. Ken
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Post  PV Pilot Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:55 pm

If I Remember Correctly.
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Post  Cribbs74 Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:33 pm

Thanks for asking that Ken. I had no idea either Very Happy
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Post  SuperDave Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:01 am

All I can say that some of you of the younger set may not realize that the memory is the SECOND thing to go; don't ask what's the FIRST. Laughing

IIRC is "computereze" from a bygone era like ROFLMAO or DIIK.

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Post  RknRusty Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:59 pm

I like the way those stitches look, especially the last two pictures. I may go that way after all. That task will be done sometime this week. I'm almost ready to make this thing start looking like an airplane.

And in response to one of Ron's posts in his Jumpin Bean thread about protecting the bellcrank from repeated stooge pulls, here's how I braced my bellcrank mount with a bamboo skewer, Ron, keep in mind my replacement ribs are strong and hard balsa. The originals were very soft and lightweight, so you'll have to decide if this is something you can do with your kit. Another option would be to run two braces out at an angle and let the LE and TE spars(terminology?) absorb your stooge pulling action, rather than the next rib.
I thought you used a tail release pin for a stooge. Are you thinking of making a wing-pull type?
sewn hinge - The Refried Bean Build-It flies - Page 3 10281210

Notice the pad the brace butts against on the outer rib. Also notice, for future repairs, how I mounted my replacement ribs to stubs of the old ribs.

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The crank pivots on a 2-56 hex nut with a blind nut on the bottom. I made sure epoxy got on the threads before I tightened the screw. Any time you want to unscrew an epoxy fixed screw, heat the head with the tip of a soldering iron and it will unscrew freely. I do this on motor mounts too.

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Post  RknRusty Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:49 pm

I need to sew tonight so I can test fit all the working parts before starting the final assembly and finishing. I like the single stitches in picture 3.
sewn hinge - The Refried Bean Build-It flies - Page 3 Dscn1610
If I pre-drill the holes and cover the 1/16(hard) balsa with Monokote and then stitch it, do you think that will be strong enough? Maybe an additional strip of mono along the stitch line on each side? I'll use a piece of cardboard, about a needle-width, as a spacer to get the gap even across the joint.


Last edited by RknRusty on Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post  Ken Cook Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:51 pm

Yes It will be strong enough. That's absolutely how I did it on the Brodak Baby Clown ARF. Somewhere on this forum I have a picture of that elevator as well. Here it is. Ken

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Post  Cribbs74 Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:13 pm

Rusty,

You had better post some pics soon. I'm getting restless!
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Post  RknRusty Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:16 pm

cribbs74 wrote:Rusty,

You had better post some pics soon. I'm getting restless!
Soon, Grasshopper, soon.

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Post  Cribbs74 Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:02 pm

RknRusty wrote:
cribbs74 wrote:Rusty,

You had better post some pics soon. I'm getting restless!
Soon, Grasshopper, soon.


lol!

Don't make me snatch that pebble from your hand!
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Post  RknRusty Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:18 pm

Okay, as requested, pictures. But first an essay:
For some reason it doesn't look a helluva lot different than it did when I first cut out the tail booms. I'm glad I don't have to answer to a boss as to why I have spent 3 or 4 hours countless nights and a few afternoons, for how long? And ain't even close to flying it yet. Building the nose was, for me, a major operation. So was stripping the old paint, glue and repairs. Had to re-rib it and relocate the bellcrank. I also had to widen the sheeting 1/2" to make a place next to the tail booms to stick the covering. I guess I'm a slow worker. I think doing a whole scratch build would have been quicker.

So tonight I marked the hinge holes 1/8" from the edges of the stab/elev and located the control horn screw hole. Then covering it with Monokote took a while. It's a double thickness of Mono along both sides of the hinge line. I got two of them sewn and realized this method is self-gapping. I only got two stitches done but it looks like they are going to be extremely free moving. I like that. I can knock out the rest of the hinges tomorrow night. Note, in the pictures the wingtips are scotch taped on just for the pose. Them, the flaps and tail booms all go on last. I'll cover the wings before I put any of that stuff on. As soon as the elevator is done, I'll sand-fill-sand, epoxy-fuelproof the front end, and prime and paint the old fuse section and nose, Monokote the booms and glue it all together. Yes, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Here is the stab/elev and its two hinges I sewed. There will be eight hinges.
It looks a little off from side to side. I'll deal with that somehow.
Click the pic to see the uncropped image.
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The flaps will mesh with the overlapping wingtips
Click the pic.
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Another pose
Click the pic.
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Post  Ken Cook Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:51 am

Rusty, the stab looks great. I wouldn't worry about the stab being slightly off left to right. You did a fine job. Ken
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Post  Kim Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:44 am

Fantastic!!! "Lightning Bean"!!!!
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Post  RknRusty Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:18 am

Kim wrote:... "Lightning Bean"!!!!
Hey, good name. If she flies right I may put that on the wing.

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Post  Kim Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:21 am

Coolo! And how could it NOT fly good??!!!

I hereby evoke the time-tested adage: " If it LOOKS good...it'll FLY good " !!!!!
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Post  RknRusty Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:46 pm

Kim wrote:Coolo! And how could it NOT fly good??!!!

I hereby evoke the time-tested adage: " If it LOOKS good...it'll FLY good " !!!!!
Hmmm, glad to know that, it certainly doesn't apply reliably to women. Rolling Eyes But it must mean I still have a lot of work to do. Laughing I did actually manage to marry a serious babe, so I apparently get lucky sometimes.

On the the other hand, the Monokote looks so good on the stab, I think I can save myself some trouble priming and painting by using it on other parts too. The rest of the rear end will be easy to coat and maybe the nose end too, if it will stick over the epoxy coating.

I'm starting to ponder color schemes. I have white, blue and red left over from the BFS. Maybe white wings with red starbursts. Overlays is one thing Monokote is good for as opposed to Ultracote. You can do overlays with no heat, just Windex. It worked on the Streak, and so far no peeling.

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Post  Cribbs74 Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:57 pm

Hey Rusty it looks good! Have you calculated the wing area?

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Post  RknRusty Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:04 pm

cribbs74 wrote:Hey Rusty it looks good! Have you calculated the wing area?

Somewhere early in this thread, but I only guessed at the measurements and accidentally low-balled it. Even then it was well within the adequate stunting range, and that was before I added flaps to the plan. I'll re calculate it tonight and post the numbers. I'm headed out to the shop now. I'll be back in in 2-3 hours. See ya then.

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Post  Mark Boesen Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:54 pm

Ken Cook wrote: I can tell you first hand, hardly anyone uses CA hinges on control line planes due to them being too stiff. This is the case even with .40 size airplanes. Using them on a 1/2A plane would not be a good idea. They have a memory and always want to place the elevator back to neutral and they just don't suffice well for control line flying. The CA wicks all the way through the hinge causing them to get even stiffer and eventually ends up cracking. They also require a slot deeper and wider than a barrel hinge. In the event you hit the ground, I've seen CA hinges just rip out of the thin wood we use for control surfaces leaving a almost unrepairable surface. This also happens with barrel hinges sometimes. I've seen this many of times for those who have used them on ARF models that provided them. Mark raised the concern of fuel impregnation. After I sew the hinges I use a toothpick and typically use a dot of Ambroid (white glue would work equally as well) on each thread top and bottom. This also holds the stitching and seals it. If done correctly, it looks better than cloth over and under style in my opinion. I have several models built that way stitched in different fashions and I could provide pics. The other aspect is that 1/2A control line planes generally don't have as long as a life span as larger models as they just get run to the mill. What I mean by this is that it's probably better to use a type of hinge style that improves flying characteristics vs. cosmetics. Ken

Hi Ken,

All good points, but I forgot to mention that on 1/2a's I'd cut the hinges to appx. 1/4" wide, probably not quite as free as figure '8' threads, but quick, easy and looks good, and never had one come loose with normal usage, I used this a lot on 1/2a pylon racers. Larger ships for C/L stunt used pinned hinges, later builds using wood glue to set. Photo below shows a 1/2a Nobler I designed with flaps using cut down CA hinges. sewn hinge - The Refried Bean Build-It flies - Page 3 2012-112
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Post  RknRusty Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:48 pm

Back in from the shop. I calculated the wing area and loading since Ron asked about it. I came up with a wing area of 113sq inches which includes the newly added flaps. And I guesstimated the AUW at a fat 8 ounces. It probably won't weigh that much, but that gives me a wing loading of 10.1oz/sq foot if I understood the calculation. Someone may be able to tell me if that sounds right.

I finished the stitching. I got the hang of it more as I went. The first one I made with the tie-off knot on the wrong side. I wanted them all on the un-moving stab side, but I'll leave it. I think they came out nicely. I didn't have any white glue but I had some clear setting 30 minute epoxy and thinned it way down with alcohol. I put a tiny drop on each knot and its tails. I didn't get any into the holes. I put the control horn on too. So here are the pictures of my handiwork.

The top side
Click the link https://servimg.com/view/16760059/94
sewn hinge - The Refried Bean Build-It flies - Page 3 Sam_2010

The bottom side. The knot on the far right is the one I put on the elevator side, but it should hold.
Click the link https://servimg.com/view/16760059/95
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