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"COX Budapest" .049 engine



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Post  balogh Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:08 am

Hi there

a year or so ago  I bought a Little Roughneck from Selecthobbies, and Steve Adams was kind enough to put the main lasercut parts of his beta design Speedy, a tapered/high wing R/C plane for 010 and 020 engines, also into the box of the Roughneck. He requested me to post some photos on forums like CEF after I have built it, and I am pleased to meet his request.

A very light and dynamic plane, although I still have to install the guts/servos/receiver etc. and accessories, but when empty, it glides very elegantly. Kits for 010 engines are very rarely available on the market, so I hope its maiden flight planned for this weekend will add another fun  item to my portfolio of 049/051 and .56 powered craft.

Speedy ( a Beta design for 010 powerplants) 20141010

Speedy ( a Beta design for 010 powerplants) 20141011

Speedy ( a Beta design for 010 powerplants) 20141012
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Post  RknRusty Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:06 am

Nice. It looks rugged, Are the CF spars part of the kit?

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Post  balogh Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:12 am

Thnaks, Rusty,

The "kit" I was sent by Steve only included 2 or 3 lasercut balsa sheets for the fuselage, wing formers, elevator and rudder, also a bit different in size thajh what the attached plan showed, and I had to mprovise and supplement all missing parts. This kit is not yet commercially available, Steve sent it to me to "experiment" with it, and I built it for an R/C application.
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Post  Kim Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:04 am

Beautiful little plane !!!
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Post  1/2A Nut Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:22 am

Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
Looks sexy should float in for landings off power well and loops will be easy enough. What about rudder only with the wing designs limited dihedral? Do you think it will recover out of sharp turns ok? The flat bottom airfoil should help it recover out of the turns, it appears to have a bit of washout. What is the the weight thus far?
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Post  balogh Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:41 am

The wing bottom is not quite flat, and I have similar airfoils in somewhat larger planes powered by TD051. They are fantastically forgiving to sharp turns. Onlookers always ask me if I have ailerons on them which I do not have.

I have not weighed the Speedy yet but it should be well below 200 grams when fully fitted. It does not have a dehdral, but as you said, is floating quite well (i first tried it in the bedroom and it floats so flat that I almost smashed my wife's full size mirror)
My TeeDee 010 flies with a 270 grams Roaring 20 quite well so I assume this will be a fast one.
I will keep you posted on the maiden flight. Unfortunately these birds are too small for a good video, but will try to shoot one too.

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Post  1/2A Nut Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:42 pm

Here is a scratch design I did this year called the Lil Speedy flies on a stock TD .010 I use a head mounted cam to attempt some footage. I made an aluminum exhaust throttle 3ch ailerons and elevator.



Maiden at 24mins in the 3rd flight has a nice pass for doppler check around 27 mins in.
You will need to view full screen to get any idea of its speed and to see it lol.




Cox TD .010 Throttle Sleeve 3rd Gen Sleeve Test, note I had it set for 3 blade so will have to divide by 3 and times by 2. Most of this was in the 4k to 6k range.

There is a thread on the build if interested on RCG and RCU in the 1/2A forums.
These days I'm going with a TD .020 and cox 4D x 2.5P to deal with the wind better.
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Post  balogh Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:52 pm

Great little plane, I like the way it flies (as much as is visible).My problem with my 010 and 020 powered RC planes is they slip too fast out of my eyesight if I look away for only a moment, and without the engine sound I would not be able to spot them enymore.

How much was the max speed you have tached on the stock 010? With a 3 " dia stock prop I have never been able to reach 27k, though I rarely use more nitro than 20% in the fuel.
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Post  1/2A Nut Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:31 pm

With the throttle sleeve the best I had unloaded in the air with 30% nitro was 28.3k It was achieved with a modified 3x1.25 competition grey prop swept tips and relief cut. Still a 3in dia. This was during the heat of the summer this year.
I think cooler dense air will provide more engine rpm later in the fall.

The fast small ones have to be flown first in a steady pattern I am now flying that one in the mid 60's and can jam all over the place up close in my face just takes practice and good thrust out of the turns. Here is a vid with the .020 about 40ish flights in with the plane. You will see more confidence in the flying patterns.



I would like to try another stab at a fast TD .010 from what I have learned.

- Reduce the size of the Lil speedy by 20%
- V tail less drag- but its not easy to get even throw so risky on a small plane
- 4.5oz all up max or less an absolute must!
- 2 channels - best for max speed
- if 3rd servo for throttle sleeve adds weight / just wasn't worth it for speed flying but for sport yessssah.
- 180 mah nimh the 280 mah was extra weight for the .010
- perfect for a good 3.5min + flight: 1/2oz fuel tank with clunk (pill bottle)
- no landing gear
- thinner fuselage just wide enough for the RC gear nothing more.
- fire wall should be just enough for the engine back plate then taper back to tail.
- 16' x 3' in span wing 48 sq. in tops

A must is to use a narrow cord prop 3D x 3P half the cord of the stock prop swept star tip out of carbon if possible.
70mph could happen! 3P at 28k rpm is 80 mph.
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Post  balogh Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:49 am

Thanks for the tips on how to make it faster.

As it presently stands (with 300mAh NiMH battery and all accessories plus a TD010) the Speedy weighs about 5 oz assuming 10cc fuel in the baloon tank with no clunk!! (A TD010 shoud run for about 10 minutes on 10cc= 1/3 oz fuel dose.)

I guess the party-baloon tank is in itself lighter than a plastic tank, let alone the clunk that is not needed in the baloon. I have not yet installed all items needed but threw everything on a drugstore scale the estimate the final weight.

I am trying to find a smaller/lighter battery pack but those smaller than 300mAh will have 3,6 V voltage instead of 4,8 which is safer for the servos.
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Post  1/2A Nut Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:59 am

Look forward to seeing how the engine does on pressure. Yes wayyy lighter set up without the weight of a clunk.
I had a steel 1/3oz tank for the maiden but never went past 3.4mins before the engine died. I have yet to try / but bought a 11g single 250mah Lipo with a voltage regulator/booster puts out a steady 5 volts called a (Smart Lipo) something to check out when you have a moment. Will you be able to post a vid of the flight?

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Post  balogh Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:26 am

I will try to shoot a vid, or ask my wife to do that, just like the one I posted on youtube in the hot 2012 summer of Budapest, a Roaring 20 R/C powered by my 010...This plane is about 240grams/8 oz when fully filled, and the TD010 pulls it wonderfully...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1k8YTLegTo


This is the 2nd part of the vid, the first part shows me half naked (it was damn hot here,) and I am just too shy to paste the link to the 1st part here... lol!


Unfortunately not much is visible of the Roaring 20 because the video was shot by a smartphone, but I will take a more sophisticated camera to the field for the maiden flight of the Speedy this time.
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Post  1/2A Nut Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:33 pm

2/3 oz with a balloon tank?
Wow 8oz it was doing just fine for a high wing it kept pulling along.
I have seen that vid the lil engine was screaming good, must have been on pressure.
Down wind my audio tach read as high as 29.7k in a bit of a dive. Into the wind you averaged 27.3k level.
Sounds good look forward to your maiden flight, always a bit of a nail biter untill you sort out the trims. Popcorn
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Post  balogh Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:52 am

Thanks for you concern, I will start the maiden flight over high grass just to make sure it won't end up untrimmed in a maddened flight instead... Shocked (myself maddened over a broken prop or punched wing, broken fuselage etc...)

I completed the Speedy last night and it weighs around 150 grams i.e. 5 oz or so. Add 10 cc of fuel and it will still weigh less than 160 grams.

I will sneak out from my office a bit earlier today and weather permitting, I will test it still before dark.
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Post  1/2A Nut Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:12 am

Just checking in any updates on the test flights? RC Plane
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Post  balogh Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:14 pm

I am still wondering what may have gone wrong:

The plane stalls and I think the performance of the 010 I use is too low.

I cannot rev my 010 up to higher than 24k rpm. Earlier it turned a massive 27+k but even 30% nitro will not help. Compression is perfect, carb is clean. The engine sucks fuel from the tank well. I tried everything else possible; replaced the crankshaft and the case in anticipation the possible wear may have left the shaft/case with a radial gap that reduces crankcase seal...negative.

Checked if the prop is balanced...fine. I am helpless and feel bad to write anything wrong about my COX engines so I keep searching for the problem and will let you know when Heureka comes.
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Post  1/2A Nut Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:40 pm

24k static / fresh fuel as you may have lost some nitro out of the old bottle?
Unloaded in the air should be 26.4+

You say its stalling, is it able to stay in the air or is it stalling on a hand launch without enough power to climb out?
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Post  1/2A Nut Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:14 pm

You could consider this plane a bit big for a TD .010 and install a TD .020 or a Pee Wee.
I redesigned the proportions which would increase performance with a TD .010


Speedy ( a Beta design for 010 powerplants) Td_02010



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Post  balogh Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:01 am

Gents I have temporarily given up the Speedy project until I find out how to crank up the speed of my capricious 010 to 27k rpm again.
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Post  rsv1cox Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:30 am

For what it's worth, of all my Cox engines the .010's have been the most trouble prone. I never could get them to run right. I sold two and kept one new in the box which I still have.
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Post  1/2A Nut Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:04 pm

Was the weather cooler when you had noted 27k static colder air helps on power. In the summer I couldn't get the rpm I expected till it was moving fast in the air. I would launch a hair rich and let the airflow lean it out and was able to monitor the rpm with a audio tach adjusting the needle each flight till I was maxed out.
I have 6 TD .010's the vintage red ones snap over better than the black ones that are post Leroy.
Fuel draw is critical.
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Post  balogh Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:25 pm

If you audiotach this run still on the ground you measure 27k rpm or so..it was damn hot then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1k8YTLegTo

Now the same engine (vintage red 010) with the same compression etc and fuel blend hardly reaches 25k on the ground and does not speed up even in the air...

I simply have no clue, by now have tried everything possible to help this little rascal but so far to no avail.
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Post  1/2A Nut Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:59 pm

Same prop type..the flexible black one? You could try the gray the harder plastic can be modified for more rpm yet keeping the same diameter for good thrust. Here is a photo of my modified gray.

Speedy ( a Beta design for 010 powerplants) Mod_pr11

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Post  1/2A Nut Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:09 pm

Hot air is thin air so this does help reduce drag for the spinning prop. Yes great rpm from the engine in the vid.
Yes 27k on the ground Some passes in the air 27.k + others 28.5k +
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Post  rsv1cox Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:16 pm

Nice running .010 complimented by a really long flight. But what caught my attention was the electric hand held starter. I haven't seen one like that commercially, but I have been thinking about constructing a head that would fit on a DC Dremmel tool.
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