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Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine - Page 7 Empty Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:42 pm

dinsdale wrote:I must admit that "Steven Stanley Bayes" is entertaining, if not amusing, but don't you think it's time he gave his keyboard a rest?  Same questions, same answers - over and over.  

Steven Stanley Bayes, you've been told all the answers from the blokes who know.  It's about time to move on to your next forum of choice and wear out their good will.


Thanks. Yet, I have not had many inputs on : Start and Run Settings, Fuels and Alternative Fuels. This is what I have wanted the most from this forum. Thanks for all of the response, though.


Last edited by StevenStanleyBayes on Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine - Page 7 Empty Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:12 am

Surfer_kris wrote:
StevenStanleyBayes wrote:
I AM VERY MUCH INTERESTED IN THE SETTINGS ( AIR VALVE ( THROTTLE ), FUEL NEEDLE VALVE, COMPRESSION ) OF THIS OR ANY OTHER ENGINE WITH ANY FUEL INCLUDING DAVIS DIESEL : START UP SETTINGS ( WHEN YOU START THE ENGINE ) AND RUNNING SETTINGS ( WHEN YOU RUN THE ENGINE NORMALLY ).

The air valve can be in any position you like, it has the same function as could start choke on regular engines. So you could either use it as a cold start choke to enricher the fuel to air ratio, or you use the main needle to do it. No one can tell you what these values should be as it is all up to you how you run the engine.

Fuel ratio, compression setting, fuel formula and engine load are all related. So this is something that every owner has to find out for themselves. There are also large machining differences from one engine to another, so again you can only find the settings for each individual engine by running it.

In general you would use a higher compression setting to start the engine when it is cold. Once up to running temperature you can then back of the compression. On a hot engine you can instead reduce the compression setting a little for the start, and once the engine runs you go back to the running settings.

Once running you you need to tune on both the compression setting and the fuel ratio to find the optimum settings. These are then usually reproducible for the same fuel blend and similar weather conditions, but usually one world always give them a quick check to adjust for changes in the weather and/or the fuel etc.



THIS IS WHAT I CALL A HELPFUL TOPIC OF A RESPONSE. THANKS.

I have tried to use the fuel needle valve for start up enrichment as you and some of the Cox distributed documentation ( McQueen ) says. I have not been able to do so. Looks like everyone else in the world can and only I cannot. Hence the cry for help with the settings and not only. Unless the compression is very low, the engine would not be able to sustain the too open settings and jump to high RPM, although, OTHER PEOPLE DO SO AND SHOW SO. Again, you are right, yet, I am unable to do so and I do not know why. Too low compression, though does not ignite the Ether. I fully agree these depend on the fuel. I have used 39% Ether, 34% Kerosene, 24% Castor Oil, 3% Cetane Booster. Too advanced. When I position fuel needle valve to 5 turns open and air valve to fully open to enrich the mixture and compression to around one eighth open, the engine starts and stops in a few turns. I tried with lower compression, I think, but I tried so many things so I may have forgotten. These settings bring fuel and this is still something I am happy with.

Thus, I have used your other suggestion for all more closed as I have described. Worked OK. However, never tried with muffler. Hence I want to have many inputs. I want to also be able to start the engine in many different ways ( settings ) to have many back up start up scenarios. This is why I have cried for help and I have received a very good input from you. In case you start OK with open enrichment, therefore, either I do something totally wrong or the fuel is very different than yours.

I will remember your input and keep trying.

Initially, I thought exactly like you ( the normal way ) : start with higher compression and then decrease and many people on YouTube do so and works perfectly. I have found, however, in the case I am in, the other way around is what happens. Cox also say so. With the Cox published fuel : 40% Ether, 35% Kerosene, 25% Castor Oil, and the closed settings for enrichment, I start at lower compression ( one eighth or around unscrewed compression screw ) and then have a few seconds to slightly close the compression screw, otherwise, the engine may stop.

I am happy, however, you have managed to do what is standard to do. I do this with the other fuel with Cetane Booster.

The very main reason for crying out loud for help with starter settings is because, unlike you, I have an incredibly strict restrains on the settings and, looks like, I am the only one. After a lot of blood, sweat and ether, I have only been able to start the engine with these settings and nothing else and I have tried a lot, although, I admit, not as much with a starter spring because I have been stupid to think I can start the engine with a drill or hand cranking the propeller.

Anyway, for your comments and suggestions and help : This is the only way I can start the engine so far :

Method : Spring Start

Muffler : No

Temperature of Engine : Room ( 25C )

Temperature of Fuel : Around Room ( 25C )

Usual Number of Spring Starts to Start at Settings : 4
 
Fuel : 39% John Deere 80% Ether Starter Fluid, 34% Kerosene from the Camping Section of a big store, 24% Castor Oil from Cox, 3% Cetane Booster : 2 EthylExyl Nitrate & Xelone

Settings :

Compression Screw : around one eighth open ( the most closed compression screw to allow one or two more spins when spring started ( the propeller rotates freely ) )
Air Valve ( Throttle ) : one eighth open only
Fuel Needle valve : three and a quarter turns open from fully closed

These have been very consistent BUT, I REPEAT, THESE HAVE BEEN THE ONLY SETTINGS I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO START THE ENGINE WITH.

All of you seem to start the engine with any settings, even open. One of the Cox distributed documents, written by Mr. McQueen suggests open enrichment as well as you. I SEEM TO BE THE ONLY ONE WITH THIS PROBLEM. Obviously, I may be doing something wrong.

YOU ARE PROBABLY THE FIRST PERSON ON THE FORUM TO TALK SETTINGS. THANK YOU! I STRONGLY BEG YOU TO CONTINUE, PLEASE, AS WELL AS I ASK ALL TO GET INTO THIS DICUSSION.

THANKS!
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Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine - Page 7 Empty Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  RknRusty Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:48 am

I don't know diesel operation so can't help with settings. But don't worry too much about a little slop at the ball and socket. Even with the right reset tool, it takes a practiced and deft touch to tighten it without mushrooming the crown. I've mushroomed a few and usually avoid doing it unless I'm going to be running hard and hot at high RPMs. If you feel you must reset one, it helps if you use the same hammer every time so you know just how much to hit it. Also you need an anvil like the small one on most vise clamps as your support for the tool. I use a vise bolted to a disk brake rotor and placed on my concrete floor so there is zero cushion to absorb the impact. A wood table may not always suffice. But again, I'd recommend avoiding that until you get the rest ironed out. It shouldn't affect the engine's performance, and at operating temperature, it's probably tighter than what you feel when it's cold.

It usually needs reset only once in its life after break-in because the metal gets work hardened, but high RPMs are usually what loosens them in a glow fuel engine. A little slop is okay. The eventual castor varnish may tighten it some too. It builds up during rich break-in runs more than lean fast runs. With our modern 50/50 castor/synthetic glow fuel, we don't get as much buildup as with pure castor. With the synthetic in the blend, it tends to attain a beneficial coating of varnish and level off there. Our diesel guys may have some different ideas about the subject, so we'll see if they toss in any helpful tips.
Rusty

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Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine - Page 7 Empty Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:24 am

RknRusty wrote:I don't know diesel operation so can't help with settings. But don't worry too much about a little slop at the ball and socket. Even with the right reset tool, it takes a practiced and deft touch to tighten it without mushrooming the crown. I've mushroomed a few and usually avoid doing it unless I'm going to be running hard and hot at high RPMs. If you feel you must reset one, it helps if you use the same hammer every time so you know just how much to hit it. Also you need an anvil like the small one on most vise clamps as your support for the tool. I use a vise bolted to a disk brake rotor and placed on my concrete floor so there is zero cushion to absorb the impact. A wood table may not always suffice. But again, I'd recommend avoiding that until you get the rest ironed out. It shouldn't affect the engine's performance, and at operating temperature, it's probably tighter than what you feel when it's cold.

It usually needs reset only once in its life after break-in because the metal gets work hardened, but high RPMs are usually what loosens them in a glow fuel engine. A little slop is okay. The eventual castor varnish may tighten it some too. It builds up during rich break-in runs more than lean fast runs. With our modern 50/50 castor/synthetic glow fuel, we don't get as much buildup as with pure castor. With the synthetic in the blend, it tends to attain a beneficial coating of varnish and level off there. Our diesel guys may have some different ideas about the subject, so we'll see if they toss in any helpful tips.
Rusty


Thanks a lot. This is very helpful. I will try not to reset the piston unless the slack is much higher than the original. This was not the case before and I paid for fixing what was not broken. Good I learned your post.

Thanks.
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Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine - Page 7 Empty Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:31 am

StevenStanleyBayes wrote:
Surfer_kris wrote:
StevenStanleyBayes wrote:
I AM VERY MUCH INTERESTED IN THE SETTINGS ( AIR VALVE ( THROTTLE ), FUEL NEEDLE VALVE, COMPRESSION ) OF THIS OR ANY OTHER ENGINE WITH ANY FUEL INCLUDING DAVIS DIESEL : START UP SETTINGS ( WHEN YOU START THE ENGINE ) AND RUNNING SETTINGS ( WHEN YOU RUN THE ENGINE NORMALLY ).

The air valve can be in any position you like, it has the same function as could start choke on regular engines. So you could either use it as a cold start choke to enricher the fuel to air ratio, or you use the main needle to do it. No one can tell you what these values should be as it is all up to you how you run the engine.

Fuel ratio, compression setting, fuel formula and engine load are all related. So this is something that every owner has to find out for themselves. There are also large machining differences from one engine to another, so again you can only find the settings for each individual engine by running it.

In general you would use a higher compression setting to start the engine when it is cold. Once up to running temperature you can then back of the compression. On a hot engine you can instead reduce the compression setting a little for the start, and once the engine runs you go back to the running settings.

Once running you you need to tune on both the compression setting and the fuel ratio to find the optimum settings. These are then usually reproducible for the same fuel blend and similar weather conditions, but usually one world always give them a quick check to adjust for changes in the weather and/or the fuel etc.



Also, please, note the fuel has much more advanced ignition than other people's fuels as this contains 40% Ether. I can only the open valve enrichment start scenario would work with less advanced ignition fuels. One of the documents, also distributed by Cox, suggests 20% Ether which would probably also give more powerful combustion at the expense of the temperature. I am afraid to try this fuel for now. I will also be afraid to try this fuel after break in. I may try in the future when I overcome the psychological barrier I now have not to try new things for a while from now on.

I presume you run Davis Diesel. Do they provide the ingredients and the percentages and can you or anyone post them here.

THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR HELP. MEANS A LOT.



THIS IS WHAT I CALL A HELPFUL TOPIC OF A RESPONSE. THANKS.

I have tried to use the fuel needle valve for start up enrichment as you and some of the Cox distributed documentation ( McQueen ) says. I have not been able to do so. Looks like everyone else in the world can and only I cannot. Hence the cry for help with the settings and not only. Unless the compression is very low, the engine would not be able to sustain the too open settings and jump to high RPM, although, OTHER PEOPLE DO SO AND SHOW SO. Again, you are right, yet, I am unable to do so and I do not know why. Too low compression, though does not ignite the Ether. I fully agree these depend on the fuel. I have used 39% Ether, 34% Kerosene, 24% Castor Oil, 3% Cetane Booster. Too advanced. When I position fuel needle valve to 5 turns open and air valve to fully open to enrich the mixture and compression to around one eighth open, the engine starts and stops in a few turns. I tried with lower compression, I think, but I tried so many things so I may have forgotten. These settings bring fuel and this is still something I am happy with.

Thus, I have used your other suggestion for all more closed as I have described. Worked OK. However, never tried with muffler. Hence I want to have many inputs. I want to also be able to start the engine in many different ways ( settings ) to have many back up start up scenarios. This is why I have cried for help and I have received a very good input from you. In case you start OK with open enrichment, therefore, either I do something totally wrong or the fuel is very different than yours.

I will remember your input and keep trying.

Initially, I thought exactly like you ( the normal way ) : start with higher compression and then decrease and many people on YouTube do so and works perfectly. I have found, however, in the case I am in, the other way around is what happens. Cox also say so. With the Cox published fuel : 40% Ether, 35% Kerosene, 25% Castor Oil, and the closed settings for enrichment, I start at lower compression ( one eighth or around unscrewed compression screw ) and then have a few seconds to slightly close the compression screw, otherwise, the engine may stop.

I am happy, however, you have managed to do what is standard to do. I do this with the other fuel with Cetane Booster.

The very main reason for crying out loud for help with starter settings is because, unlike you, I have an incredibly strict restrains on the settings and, looks like, I am the only one. After a lot of blood, sweat and ether, I have only been able to start the engine with these settings and nothing else and I have tried a lot, although, I admit, not as much with a starter spring because I have been stupid to think I can start the engine with a drill or hand cranking the propeller.

Anyway, for your comments and suggestions and help : This is the only way I can start the engine so far :

Method : Spring Start

Muffler : No

Temperature of Engine : Room ( 25C )

Temperature of Fuel : Around Room ( 25C )

Usual Number of Spring Starts to Start at Settings : 4
 
Fuel : 39% John Deere 80% Ether Starter Fluid, 34% Kerosene from the Camping Section of a big store, 24% Castor Oil from Cox, 3% Cetane Booster : 2 EthylExyl Nitrate & Xelone

Settings :

Compression Screw : around one eighth open ( the most closed compression screw to allow one or two more spins when spring started ( the propeller rotates freely ) )
Air Valve ( Throttle ) : one eighth open only
Fuel Needle valve : three and a quarter turns open from fully closed

These have been very consistent BUT, I REPEAT, THESE HAVE BEEN THE ONLY SETTINGS I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO START THE ENGINE WITH.

All of you seem to start the engine with any settings, even open. One of the Cox distributed documents, written by Mr. McQueen suggests open enrichment as well as you. I SEEM TO BE THE ONLY ONE WITH THIS PROBLEM. Obviously, I may be doing something wrong.

YOU ARE PROBABLY THE FIRST PERSON ON THE FORUM TO TALK SETTINGS. THANK YOU! I STRONGLY BEG YOU TO CONTINUE, PLEASE, AS WELL AS I ASK ALL TO GET INTO THIS DICUSSION.

THANKS!
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Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine - Page 7 Empty Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  RknRusty Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:37 am

If you're trying to crank any new engine with a muffler, you're making it much more difficult. Learn to crank, and break it in without a muffler. This lets you prime it at the exhaust port. Then when you get the hang of it, and the engine has settled in and will run dependably, you can install the muffler and re-learn how it needs to be primed and cranked. In a glow engine, if it starts brightly and stops in a few seconds, then it's needle is probably set too lean. Open 1/4 turn, re-prime and try again. Otherwise, it's possible there is a fuel feed problem.

Make sure the internal pickup of the tank is on the same horizontal plane as the venturi(not lower) so it doesn't fight gravity and drain back before its vacuum can pull it through the line. And if it's higher than the venturi it can flood the engine, though reed engines aren't quite as bad as rotary valve engines about that, but it can happen. Also it's important to use the shortest possible fuel line from the tank to the engine. After fixing any of the tank position problems, if all it will do is scream BRRAAAP and quit after burning off the prime, something could be clogging the Needle valve..
Rusty

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Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine - Page 7 Empty Status Report

Post  StevenStanleyBayes Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:25 pm

Unable to respond to posts now. Will do this soon.

Started with a muffler. Took a few hours. New settings. Not used to. Need to do more starts.

No video.

Pictures available. Unable to upload the .doc file with the pictures on the web site. File too large. Must select a few. Will do.

Don't know how to post pictures here.


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Post  RknRusty Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:33 pm


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Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine - Page 7 Empty Pictures of the Engine and the Stand

Post  StevenStanleyBayes Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:52 pm

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Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine - Page 7 Empty Muffler

Post  StevenStanleyBayes Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:57 pm

Started with the Cox muffler. Took 5 hours. Hell.

Spring OK. No need to be tied.

Everything standard except muffler positioned asymmetrically to the holes, I. e. twisted from original position. Not supposed to but may have effect on start and performance. Will do as they say to get even flow from the two sets of exhaust line holes.

Quieter than a door buzzer. Amazing.

As expected, muffler takes power and so does a big propeller. Can be compromised by a bigger muffler hole.

Difficult to start, mainly, difficult to sustain. Can do, though. More difficult to control after start.

Fuel and settings : will be posted soon.
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Post  1/2A Nut Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:10 am

Where is the vid with a meter showing power out in volts and load tests. Beer Cheers
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Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine - Page 7 Empty Successful Start with a Muffler

Post  StevenStanleyBayes Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:52 pm

This is appended to the thesis : http://www.steven-stanley-bayes.com/Cox%20.049%20SureStart%20Diesel.doc

Took 5 hours to figure out what the start up settings are. Cannot do these things. Want to prevent the spring and keep the engine nice and tidy. As much as I want to post the video of the engine with the muffler and add known background sounds for you all to hear how quiet the engine is, I will leave this to financially more advanced people.

Here is what I have found out ( all numbers approximate, fuel not accurately measured : added during attempts on many occasions ; fuel amount : less than 20mL and around 15mL in total ).

Started the engine with a Muffler. Very difficult.

Fuel : Began with standard Cox fuel of 39% Ether, 34% Kerosene, 24% Castor Oil, 3% Cetane Booster. Added more Cesare Booster thereafter to sustain the starts. As I experimented, I changed the fuel. I don't remember but I think I have started the engine with an increased Ether to Kerosene ratio : 49% Ether, 28% Kerosene, 20% Castor Oil, 3% Cetane Booster.

I have then again started the engine ( not from hot, but from near room temperature ) with 35%, Ether, 26% Kerosene, 26% Castor Oil, 13% Cetone Booster.

The standard fuel did not work at the beginning but may work. More tests are needed. The amount of Cetane Booster may be increased to 6%. Lower percentage may be OK but may require a faster reaction on the controls after start up to allow the engine to continue.

I, therefore, suggest to anyone who wants to start the engine with the standard Cox muffler to FIRST try this fuel ( and then do whatever one wants ) : 25% Castor Oil, 10% Cetane Booster, 25% Kerosene, 40% Ether.

Settings :

Compression : almost maximum BUT NEVER maximum. Just slightly before the maximum. Started also with the compression screw one sixteenth to one eighth turns open but had to increase slightly to sustain. Full compression does not start well but may and does not sustain well but may. Not very sure yet.

Air Valve ( Throttle ) and Fuel Needle Valve : Adjust Air Valve to fully open and Fuel Needle Valve to 5 OR Air Valve to half and Fuel Needle Valve to 4. Do 4 spring starts to get fuel in the lines. Then Air Valve to three quarters open, Fuel Needle Valve to three and three quarters turns open. Do 4 Spring Starts. Then Air Valve to half open and Fuel Needle Valve to three and a half turns open. Do 4 spring starts. May start but may not sustain. Keep Air Valve to half open. Adjust the Fuel Needle Valve to three and a quarter. Do 4 spring starts or more. Must start. Try also Fuel Needle Valve to three and three eighth turns open. Increase the compression just a touch, almost impossible to see. RPM must INCREASE. In case they increase and decrease, the compression screw has been tighten too much.

Therefore, with a Muffler, the settings are pretty much similar to these without. JUST A TOUCH HIGHER because of impeded fluid movement as expected. Thus : Air Valve : HALF OPEN ; Fuel Needle Valve THREE AND A QUARTER TO THREE AND A HALF TURNS OPEN ; COMPRESSION : AROUND ONE SIXTEENTH TURNS FROM FULL ( ONE EIGHTH TO FULL ) ; PREPAREDNESS : TO REACT ON THE COMPRESSION SCREW TOWARDS MORE CLOSED IN ORDER TO SUSTAIN ( JUST A SLIGHT TOUCH MORE CLOSED ).

Fuel can be initially pumped in by fully closing of the Air Valve ( finger on top without touching the Fuel Needle Valve ) and one or two spring starts. Do not flood.

Performance : extremely quiet. Quieter than a fly near the ear. Lower RPM increase as expected. Power, obviously, must decrease. The muffler hole can be enlarged for power noise compromise.

Messy : Yes. Spits Castor Oil through the muffler hole and then the aeration from the propeller blows the exhaust fluids backwards. Can be fixed simply : enlarge the muffler hole to what one wants as a power and noise compromise ( slightly larger for the nipple with the desired radius to be inserted ). Weld or solder a nipple with the desired radius to the hole. Connect a Copper pipe to the nipple and best solder. Connect a conical funnel like component to the pipe. Attach a circular plate to the conical shape in a way as to close the pipe BUT use a spacers to position this circular plate far from the conical pipe. From a kitchen sponge, cut a circular shape sponge with the same radius as the circular plate. Screw this to the circular plate. Ensure plenty of room between the conical exhaust and the sponge unless you want to muffle ( be aware you may burn the sponge in case too close ). The sponge will catch the exhaust Castor Oil.

This is an amazing engine!
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Post  StevenStanleyBayes Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:59 pm

RknRusty wrote:If you're trying to crank any new engine with a muffler, you're making it much more difficult. Learn to crank, and break it in without a muffler. This lets you prime it at the exhaust port. Then when you get the hang of it, and the engine has settled in and will run dependably, you can install the muffler and re-learn how it needs to be primed and cranked. In a glow engine, if it starts brightly and stops in a few seconds, then it's needle is probably set too lean. Open 1/4 turn, re-prime and try again. Otherwise, it's possible there is a fuel feed problem.

Make sure the internal pickup of the tank is on the same horizontal plane as the venturi(not lower) so it doesn't fight gravity and drain back before its vacuum can pull it through the line. And if it's higher than the venturi it can flood the engine, though reed engines aren't quite as bad as rotary valve engines about that, but it can happen. Also it's important to use the shortest possible fuel line from the tank to the engine. After fixing any of the tank position problems, if all it will do is scream BRRAAAP and quit after burning off the prime, something could be clogging the Needle valve..
Rusty


Thanks a lot. Very true. a quarter turn more of fuel and air is what I have found out the hard way! To decrease the effect of start and stop, I slightly increase the compression and quickly " give more gas ( in this case air ) " by pushing the fishing cord which action quickly opens the air intake valve ( throttle ) and, after a while when the engine gets slightly more heated up I adjust the air valve ( throttle ) with the guitar tuning machine.

THANK YOU FOR THIS REPLY. INCREDIBLY HELPFUL. 100% TRIED, TESTED AND TRUE!
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Post  StevenStanleyBayes Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:30 pm

1/2A Nut wrote:Where is the vid with a meter showing power out in volts and load tests. Beer Cheers


You sound like a manger of an R&D department. I also need breaks as well as to watch Mayday, UFO Declassified and Close Encounters. : )

The ONLY thing I have assembled so far is the Cox engine, the Cox tank and the " linkage " ( the guitar tuning machine, fishing cord, fishing hook and spring from Home Depot ). I have only been running the engine. What sounds like a few second job took a couple of months.

In order to be able to work easier, I have built a wooden stand.

Now here is the answer of your question :

The gray painted Aluminium support to which the engine is mounted is one half of the hole Aluminium enclosure. The other half slides into the first and there are screws to attach the two half all over the place. Because the first half of the enclosure is secured on the wooden pedestal, I will not be able to screw all screws in to support the assembly of the two halves of the enclosure : I will only use half of the screws which go on top of what you see on the picture.

On the second half of the enclosure, I will drill large holes to accommodate the old school analogue electro mechanical panel mount ampermeter and voltmeter as well as the switch.

The dynamo is to be on the front. The 1L tank : on top, connected to the Cox tank via an external needle valve.

The electrical connection is : Dynamo. From the positive, a wire to a fast diode. I prefer to loose 0.65 to 1V ( nasty ) but to protect the dynamo from current from the load. Then a 5mm fuse in a panel mount fuse housing. Then the switch. Then the ampermeter. Then the voltmeter. The ampermeter would show the leakage through the voltmeter and the load current. Nasty. However, I prefer to provide the user with the exact voltage across the load ( 2.5% accuracy ) then the exact current. Then a female cigarette lighter socket.

In case I install the blowers, they can be put either before the switch or before the ampermeter. In case they are before the switch, the blower will always blow when the alternator is spinning and giving between 3V and 24V consuming maximum 0.72W per blower. Otherwise, the blowers will not be always on but only after the user flips the switch to " on ".

Again : I have only these problems with things non related to the engine :

Lining up the pulley of the engine with the pulley of the dynamo.
Selecting the pulley gear ratio.
Finding elastic tape and trying to run the alternator without too much of a force by the belt because the more the belt pull the higher the wear on the crankcase axel housing ( the housing of the threaded axel where the propeller screws in ).
Assembling the dynamo, so the position of the dynamo can be readjusted to cover for belt stretching ( not sure whether can easily do so ) or using an " empty " wheel with a spring to pull the belt.

To avoid the wear of the crankcase axel housing, people line up their generators with their engines to provide a straight connection from the crankshaft to the rotor. I prefer to allow users to change pulley gear ratio as they please with just changing one or two pulleys.

I have an idea of how to decrease the wear of the crankcase axel housing : I do not know whether I can do but a company can easily manufacture a wheel with a rubber tire. The " tire " goes inside the pulley canal ( just like the belt ) where there is no belt. This wheel is " empty " and does not rotate anything. The only thing this wheel does is counters the pull of the belt which pulls the spinning crankshaft axel in the direction towards the dynamo. The empty wheel position and counter tension can be made adjustable by moving the wheel towards the engine pulley or away before securing the wheel with a screw or nut, just like a car alternator. Also, the wheel tension can be defined by a spring which moves the wheel towards the engine pulley. The strength of the string can be selected. The wheel can be mount on a movable arm, controlled by the spring.

For now, I will not do so.


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Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine - Page 7 Empty Video : Cox 1

Post  StevenStanleyBayes Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:27 pm

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7FfparKL78&list=UUiFdItymm78mcEB5Qlu67tg

Cox .049 Surestart Diesel Engine : Break In

Engine : Cox .049 SureStart Diesel Engine

Muffler : Not Installed for this video

Fuel : 38% Ether ( John Deere 80 Starter Fluid ), 33% Kerosene ( Clear ), 23% Castor Oil, 3% Cetone Booster ( 2 EthylExyl Nitrate & Xylene )

Amount of Fuel : 10mL

Start Up Settings :

Air Valve ( Throttle ) : one quarter open
Fuel Needle Valve : three and a quarter turns open
Compression : one eighth turn open

Total Run : 8 minutes

ALL NUMBERS APPROXIMATE.

Comments :

Engine initially primed with 0.5mL fuel.

Preparation for start : Air Valve ( Throttle ) fully open. Compression : one eighth turn open. Fuel Needle Valve : 5 turns open. A few spring starts to bring fuel in. Then Fuel Needle Valve : 4 turns open. A few spring starts. Then wait for 30 seconds for the fuel to settle in the crankcase. Then Fuel Needle Valve : three and a quarter turns open. A few spring starts. Then Air Valve : three quarters open. A few spring starts. Then Air Valve : half open. A few spring starts. Then Air Valve : one quarter open. A few spring starts.

The engine should start with Fuel Needle Valve three and quarter turns open, Compression Screw one eighth open and Air Valve ( Throttle ) one quarter through half open.

Reason for engine stop after running ( last minutes of the video ) : Not enough fuel in the tank. Only a tiny amount. Even when the Air Valve ( Throttle ) was fully closed with a finger and at low compression, the engine would not suck in fuel but only air ( from the fuel tank ) because of the lack of sufficient amount of fuel in the fuel tank.

Hammer : A standard hammer is lifted to nearly 90 degrees while self supported on the floor and released on a wooden plank ( approximately half an inch thick ) to make a reference noise for evaluation of the engine noise.

Video and Audio : Picture not synchronised with sound but very close.
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Post  Oldenginerod Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:12 pm

Ah, bleeding knuckles, dripping with castor oil, smelly, noisey, cranky engines, trying to source fuel components, welcome to our world lol!
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Post  StevenStanleyBayes Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:30 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:Ah, bleeding knuckles, dripping with castor oil, smelly, noisey, cranky engines, trying to source fuel components, welcome to our world lol!


Thanks. The bleeding was because of stupidity to put a hand on the propeller's way and because I got used to a 3.5 inch propeller where controls are easily accessible from the front too. I may revert to the 3.5 inch propeller because the eight inch takes a lot of room. I wish I can have a 3.5 inch propeller with many blades. I was thinking of putting two 3.5 inch propellers next to each other to make a six blade propeller.

I also have a few 2 inch fans with many blades which I may use on the dynamo. I may have a look at whether they may provide enough aeration for the engine and use them.

All these fuel components are easy to get. Ether and Castor Oil are very expensive here.

The noise is not as bad and is comparable with other of the shelf generators and grass trimmers, loan mowers, mini bikes, etcetera and even much quieter than these.

I understand your sense of humour and this is not the message to respond with this but the noise and the leaking Castor Oil have become big issues here. Thus, the standard Cox muffler with any size of hole and a nipple and a pipe can reduce the noise and throw the Castor Oil away from the user and the generator. Because the generator has to be accessible from the front and the back, a good idea would be to pint the pipe to throw Castor Oil to the side and down.

Also, the exhaust Castor Oil can be caught or channeled by a sponge positioned near this pipe.
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Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine - Page 7 Empty Correction on the Muffler

Post  StevenStanleyBayes Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:39 pm

I wrote hare the muffler was not symmetrically positioned in respect to the exhaust holes.

I made a mistake.

I filed one of the sides of the Cox muffler and installed the muffler in such a way as to point towards the front and to the right ( looking from the pilot's seat ). This way, the hole of the muffler is symmetrically positioned between the two sets of two exhaust lines per set. Thus, the fluids coming from the two sets of holes see the same resistance on the path of the exhaust fluids ( gases and Castor Oil and, hopefully not much, unburned fuel ).

Although this may increase the overall resistance, I have decided to introduce this symmetry. I have not started the engine with the muffler installed as per Cox requirements where the position of the muffler hole is not between the two sets of exhaust lines but is across one of them.

Still, the engine started and worked extremely quietly, incomparable to the noise of the non muffled engine which you can all hear in the video.

Also, I think, but I am not sure, the low RPM noise is similar to the high RPM noise but this may be wrong, probably, because the low RPM noise is more irritating.



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Post  StevenStanleyBayes Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:43 pm

StevenStanleyBayes wrote:www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7FfparKL78&list=UUiFdItymm78mcEB5Qlu67tg

Cox .049 Surestart Diesel Engine : Break In

Engine : Cox .049 SureStart Diesel Engine

Muffler : Not Installed for this video

Fuel : 38% Ether ( John Deere 80 Starter Fluid ), 33% Kerosene ( Clear ), 23% Castor Oil, 3% Cetone Booster ( 2 EthylExyl Nitrate & Xylene )

Amount of Fuel : 10mL

Start Up Settings :

Air Valve ( Throttle ) : one quarter open
Fuel Needle Valve : three and a quarter turns open
Compression : one eighth turn open

Total Run : 8 minutes

ALL NUMBERS APPROXIMATE.

Comments :

Engine initially primed with 0.5mL fuel.

Preparation for start : Air Valve ( Throttle ) fully open. Compression : one eighth turn open. Fuel Needle Valve : 5 turns open. A few spring starts to bring fuel in. Then Fuel Needle Valve : 4 turns open. A few spring starts. Then wait for 30 seconds for the fuel to settle in the crankcase. Then Fuel Needle Valve : three and a quarter turns open. A few spring starts. Then Air Valve : three quarters open. A few spring starts. Then Air Valve : half open. A few spring starts. Then Air Valve : one quarter open. A few spring starts.

The engine should start with Fuel Needle Valve three and quarter turns open, Compression Screw one eighth open and Air Valve ( Throttle ) one quarter through half open.

Reason for engine stop after running ( last minutes of the video ) : Not enough fuel in the tank. Only a tiny amount. Even when the Air Valve ( Throttle ) was fully closed with a finger and at low compression, the engine would not suck in fuel but only air ( from the fuel tank ) because of the lack of sufficient amount of fuel in the fuel tank.

Hammer : A standard hammer is lifted to nearly 90 degrees while self supported on the floor and released on a wooden plank ( approximately half an inch thick ) to make a reference noise for evaluation of the engine noise.

Video and Audio : Picture not synchronised with sound but very close.


USUALLY THE ENGINE STARTS MUCH MORE EASILY with only a four spring starts at the start up settings. I think, other than with the muffler, this was the most difficult start I had had since I found the start up algorithm.

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Post  RknRusty Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:57 pm

Hey Steve, it sure is good to see it running. Rod's funny too isn't he Lol.
Okay, got grits on the burner so I could only watch up to 11:48. I'd like to make some suggestions.

First, it may not be a problem, but shorten your fuel line as much as possible without kinking it. Especially the big bottom loop so it's not fighting gravity.

Next is from start to stop I see you being too aggressive with the machine. Starting with the windup, it looked like you were wrapping it 1-1/2 or 2 turns. You may find better results with one turn. On some glow engines that are being especially contrary, I have found many times that 1/2 turn gets results when more won't do anything to ignite a charge.

The next thing I saw is your adjustments are very rapid. "Tweaking" means really considered and methodical. Once you get it running, make small adjustments and wait for it to adapt to your change in mixture, air, or compression. Temperature changes slowly compared to your twisting on the F/A mix, and it's just as much of a component as fuel, compression, and air. So you have to wait for it all to catch up.

I'm guessing that's the air valve to the intake on the long snorkel I see coming out of the top? Everyone has to learn these things when first getting the hang of it, and no two engines will act the same, so it's hard, but breath deep, make calm moves and you and it become a team. And get a box of Snoopy bandaids like I have near my table all the time.
Rusty

EDIT: I'be been writing this for an hour while I cook supper, and I see other replies. If I'm contradictory or redundant anywhere, I'll get back to it later.
Time for chow!
Rusty

Double Edit: Nevermind, those were all your own replies.

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Post  RknRusty Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:44 pm

StevenStanleyBayes wrote: Finding elastic tape and trying to run the alternator without too much of a force by the belt because the more the belt pull the higher the wear on the crankcase axel housing

I have an idea of how to decrease the wear of the crankcase axel housing : I do not know whether I can do but a company can easily manufacture a wheel with a rubber tire. The " tire " goes inside the pulley canal ( just like the belt ) where there is no belt. This wheel is " empty " and does not rotate anything. The only thing this wheel does is counters the pull of the belt which pulls the spinning crankshaft axel in the direction towards the dynamo. The empty wheel position and counter tension can be made adjustable by moving the wheel towards the engine pulley or away before securing the wheel with a screw or nut, just like a car alternator. Also, the wheel tension can be defined by a spring which moves the wheel towards the engine pulley. The strength of the string can be selected. The wheel can be mount on a movable arm, controlled by the spring.
Or a gear on the output shaft that turns another gear which has a pulley bolted to its face.
Rusty

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Post  StevenStanleyBayes Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:28 pm

RknRusty wrote:Hey Steve, it sure is good to see it running. Rod's funny too isn't he Lol.
Okay, got grits on the burner so I could only watch up to 11:48. I'd like to make some suggestions.

First, it may not be a problem, but shorten your fuel line as much as possible without kinking it. Especially the big bottom loop so it's not fighting gravity.

Next is from start to stop I see you being too aggressive with the machine. Starting with the windup, it looked like you were wrapping it 1-1/2 or 2 turns. You may find better results with one turn. On some glow engines that are being especially contrary, I have found many times that 1/2 turn gets results when more won't do anything to ignite a charge.

The next thing I saw is your adjustments are very rapid. "Tweaking" means really considered and methodical. Once you get it running, make small adjustments and wait for it to adapt to your change in mixture, air, or compression. Temperature changes slowly compared to your twisting on the F/A mix, and it's just as much of a component as fuel, compression, and air. So you have to wait for it all to catch up.

I'm guessing that's the air valve to the intake on the long snorkel I see coming out of the top? Everyone has to learn these things when first getting the hang of it, and no two engines will act the same, so it's hard, but breath deep, make calm moves and you and it become a team. And get a box of Snoopy bandaids like I have near my table all the time.
Rusty

EDIT: I'be been writing this for an hour while I cook supper, and I see other replies. If I'm contradictory or redundant anywhere, I'll get back to it later.
Time for chow!
Rusty

Double Edit: Nevermind, those were all your own replies.


As usually, you are 100% right and everything you say is extremely useful! Thanks a lot for your replies and help.

I am sorry you are into Nitro and not diesel. I was to get much more help although others had helped a lot too. However, although diesel is more powerful, Nitro is the correct fuel for this project. This is because a rechargeable battery with the necessary circuit ( usually sold as a ready to use IC ) can do the job of starting up and be used longer. The most important feature of Nitro is customer friendliness. I saw videos on YouTube where people put the engine next to compression and then, with the battery on, just turn the " knob " on the propeller just slightly, say one eighth turn, and the engine start. Much easier than turning the key of a key start car ( I am not sure whether these are still manufactured as everything is with a button now ). And the engine is on, up and running. This is what customers want. However, I have already started with diesel and I will continue and, then, everyone can realise what the project would be with a Nitro engine. Besides, Nitro fuel is sold readily available in almost any country in the world whereas Davis Diesel is sold only in some countries and The UK is the only country in the world I have heard of where they sell all of the ingredients of a diesel fuel and very inexpensively.

I am happy to hear you suggest only one spring turn. Cox does too. I have never tried 1 turn but I must. The reason is I cannot even think of a possibility to start with 1 turn but I must as everyone says this is easier to start. I promise I would try as long as I do not forget.

You are 100% right on the length of the fuel line : must be as short as possible and, I think, shortening will definitely help. The reason to be so long is because I used the maximum allowed ( 10cm ) before I positioned the tank and I did not know where and how exactly to position the tank then, so I got 10cm fuel line with the idea to cut after and I did not. I must, though.

You are right with the rapid tweaking too. Must not be done and does not show anything because the engine must be able to reliably work with a given settings over a long period as the engine may perfectly OK work with some settings for a few seconds and then stop. I mixed only 10mL of fuel and wanted to run many scenarios to achieve low RPM just to see how low the engine can go. I think, the most reliable results were with Fuel Needle Valve to normal ( between 2.75 and 3.75 turns open and then I used the Air Valve ( throttle ) and Compression controls to leash the power of the engine.

The snorkel is for the Air Valve ( Throttle ). I keep forgetting which side to turn for what! : ) I know only, when I press on the fishing cord, I can give a lot of " gas " ( air in this case ) as quickly as I want.

Thanks for your reply. As far as the bad aids go, I think but I am not sure, Ether, Kerosene and Castor Oil work very well as an oxidant against bleeding! The bleeding stopped immediately after started. After the test, I just washed hands and : no bleeding! Do not use this as a method of stopping of bleeding! : )

I was so impatient to make the video, so I did not warm the fuel up and the fuel was at freezing temperatures thanks to the John Deere squeeze can with propellants. I think, this is one of the major reasons for the engine to start with such a difficulty.

Another thing : I have found this out : During start up, STOP AND WAIT for 30 seconds after the fuel is loaded in the crankcase to make the fuel settle down in the crankcase and then do a spring start so the fuel is shot up into the upper cylinder. I think this is very useful and I will post this as a separate reply topic.
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Post  StevenStanleyBayes Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:31 pm

I have found this out : During start up, STOP AND WAIT for 30 seconds AFTER the fuel is loaded in the crankcase to make the fuel settle down in the crankcase and then do a spring start so the fuel is shot up into the upper cylinder.

Ensure the amount of fuel is not as much as to flood the engine.
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Post  StevenStanleyBayes Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:40 pm

RknRusty wrote:
StevenStanleyBayes wrote: Finding elastic tape and trying to run the alternator without too much of a force by the belt because the more the belt pull the higher the wear on the crankcase axel housing

I have an idea of how to decrease the wear of the crankcase axel housing : I do not know whether I can do but a company can easily manufacture a wheel with a rubber tire. The " tire " goes inside the pulley canal ( just like the belt ) where there is no belt. This wheel is " empty " and does not rotate anything. The only thing this wheel does is counters the pull of the belt which pulls the spinning crankshaft axel in the direction towards the dynamo. The empty wheel position and counter tension can be made adjustable by moving the wheel towards the engine pulley or away before securing the wheel with a screw or nut, just like a car alternator. Also, the wheel tension can be defined by a spring which moves the wheel towards the engine pulley. The strength of the string can be selected. The wheel can be mount on a movable arm, controlled by the spring.  
Or a gear on the output shaft that turns another gear which has a pulley bolted to its face.
Rusty

THANK YOU FOR THIS EXCELLENT SUGGESTION!

Yes, gears will solve the problem. The best, there are dynamos and generators with built in gears. Usually, these are for 100RPM or around use but any gears can be put in a dynamo and a generator. Usually, they are sold sealed but I do not know what else they do. I can imagine there are some where the customer puts the gears and various gears are sold in the pack by the manufacturer. These are usually expensive.

Gears are sold separately but lining them up is very difficult in the out of a company environment. Also, when the gears break, finding them and replacing them is very difficult as opposed to changing the belt.

Yet, gears are better and can be better centered.

Other ways I have found are to center the propeller axel ( an extended one ) with two ball bearings. Requires immense accuracy.

To channel the belt with " empty " wheels in such a way, so the belt touches the engine pulley only on top and bottom with equal force. Teethed belt and pulleys are welcome. Again, not very easy to do in an out of a company environment.
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Post  robot797 Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:43 pm

do it just like me

directly coupled

then there is almost no wear and the engine bearings will take a lot of the force
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