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Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

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Happy Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

Post  fredvon4 on Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:57 pm

I much prefer thin CA for several tasks, and semi thick (with kicker) for some areas

Lately the crap I got either gets thick / solid ( in just a few months), or takes way too long to kick off....It has been a real long time since I saw any smoke and had my eyes water....(not a particular problem for me)

Most of my CA was from Tower (Great Planes Instant), my LHS (BSI thin), or Sig ----and each was a disappointment...a bunch pitched as solid in less than 2 years... 100% waste of $$$$$$$

I have several models to build this Fall/Winter and need to order GOOD thin FAST CA

Questions
#1...what is best on line site for FRESH CA?
#2 should I concentrate on 1oz bottles?
#3 is there a product out there that actually acts as hot and fast as the Hot Stuff or Zapp I remember from the 70s?....current Zap or Hot Stuff is not very reactive like I remember

I do not store in refrig... BUT I do store both closed and opened bottles in a Humidor of sorts... a container (TupperWare) with dried desiccant packs

MILD RANT...It aggravates me a LOT that this stuff has a definite shelf life BUT NO SUPPLIER HAS THE HUEVOS to LIST the BORN ON DATE!!!!GRRRRRRr
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Happy Re: Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

Post  roddie on Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:45 pm

Phred... I know that there are people who will shun my use/experience.. but I'll mention it anyway. I buy the little 3g tubes of both thin/gel CA for the cheapest price that I can find them. The gel is more expensive.. and almost always the Loctite brand. The "thin" stuff is usually $1.00 for 4 tubes.. and when I buy "either"; I date the packages and use the oldest material first.

Funny thing is.. the cheap generic "thin-stuff" (that I buy at WalMart for a buck..) is made by "Henkel" who owns Loctite.



I don't store it in any special way.. and months can go by before I try using a previously-opened tube. It almost always flows fine.. and will make my eyes water.. if I don't have a fan running behind me to carry-off the vapors.

I'll admit that I take the extra time to prepare clean, tight-fitting joints. This makes a big difference with CA in my opinion. Where I distinguish the use between the two types varies.. but I'll often use the thick/gel when laminating.. and the thin formula for butt-joining thin pieces of sheet-balsa to each other.. as in the flat-framed wing construction that I've used as a light-weight alternative to a solid-sheet wing on models of that type. I then cover the flat-panel using Mono-Kote.

If you build regularly.. you'd probably be better-off with something like "Bob Smith's" brand.. in a larger quantity.. but the only CA that I've bought in "bottles".. was Pacer's "Zap-A-Gap" thick formula... and that was a LONG time ago!
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Happy Re: Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

Post  RknRusty on Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:23 pm

fredvon4 wrote:I much prefer thin CA for several tasks, and semi thick (with kicker) for some areas...

I have several models to build this Fall/Winter and need to order GOOD thin FAST CA

Questions
#1...what is best on line site for FRESH CA?
#2 should I concentrate on 1oz bottles?
#3 is there a product out there that actually acts as hot and fast as the Hot Stuff or Zapp I remember from the 70s?....current Zap or Hot Stuff is not very reactive like I remember

I do not store in refrig... BUT I do store both closed and opened bottles in a Humidor of sorts... a container (TupperWare) with dried desiccant packs...

Fred, I do not use the thinnest CA very often other than for hardening a structural part to prevent flexing, or in and around bolt holes through balsa or ply, support a blind nut, or to turning a sheet into an inflexible rock. If I accidentally crack a wing's center sheet, I'll soak the area along the crack to harden it. When I get a wing aligned, I jam four(2 on each side) 1/32"x 1/4" square shims in place prior to flowing epoxy into the root joint(as in my wing jigging video). I also use applicator tips once and drop them into a capped glass jar of acetone. I like the glass bullion cube jars for this.

I haven't tried enough brands to know much for comparison, but Zap is as good as any I've tried. The pink labeled stuff from Hobby Lobby seems completely useless, and I wouldn't buy it if it's the last tube in town. Between projects, when it's going to be a while before I need it again, I do keep the thin stuff in the fridge with a clean applicator tip clamped off at the tip.

For general purpose use, my favorite glue and container is the long-neck Loctite 10 sec in the  10 gram bottle with a twist-off cap. It never clogs, and I can usually use a whole bottle over a few months, but once in a while I scrub the neck with a pair of pliers to clean it. Push and turn firmly and it's as effective as any cap I've ever used. It's also what I use to glue (human)skin rips too, Holding the injury high to reduce bleed out while it hardens. Sometimes finishing it with one ply of paper towel and re-gluing every day, protecting with a bandaid. Here's what it looks like:

I get it at Walmart in both the Hardware and Craft aisles. It's great for tacking things like ribs to LE/TE/Spars, because it doesn't spread, and then brushing on thinned wood glue to the rest of the joint. It's  very good for holding down the curve of the center sheeting so you can then finish it with wood glue. I frequently apply baking soda to any small gaps prior to gluing fill in and add extra strength. This is really good stuff, and is my go-to CA for almost everything. The applicators fit tightly but you may have to spread them to get them to fit.

I just bought some of this 5 second CA and it looks promising, but I can't report on the container yet.

Lowes and Walmart both stock it. I don't buy CA online, so I can't answer that. I hope this is some help.
Rusty

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Happy Re: Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

Post  bamboozler on Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:40 am

I use Bob Smith CA from the LHSs. The thin smokes up a storm, thin is mostly what I use.

I don't buy it online or in quantity due to shelf life, only enough for the short term. The epoxy is good for years if not decades.
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Happy Re: Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:39 am

For what it's worth, I only use Loctite 406 in the 25 gram bottle.  

Keep it in the fridge & seems to last well.  It bonds materials that other "super glues" won't look at.  Real eye stinger.  Smokes joining rubber.
Worst I've ever tried was "Gorilla".  Useless stuff.


Last edited by Oldenginerod on Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:28 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added picture)
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Happy Re: Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

Post  getback on Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:56 am

I feel you Fred , $$$$ out the door bottles I never even opened in less than 6 months Mad I see you ask the same on the Stunt Hanger Forum // I was amazed the first time I ever saw the wood smoke like it was on FIRE and set up in seconds that was Zap with ZAP Accelerator , not so much any more but have had some Accelerators that just don't seem to do what you want so I have moved back to ZAP and that is what I am using ,, I have a large bottle of med. that is 3 years old now and still works fine( it was in the fridge for 2 yrs. till my son opened it ) I think the mix of different glues and difft. Accelerators is a big problem as they don't play well together . I have a bottle of Extreme Power thick I have had a while and its as good as it was when I bought it ?! I don't know if you can buy direct but they do have a phone # on the back of the bottle . Very Happy Eric Babe Bee
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Happy Re: Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

Post  Ken Cook on Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:15 am

Using smoke as a reference in regards to how new or old your CA could be isn't exactly a correct science. The moisture in the wood is what makes that reaction. If the CA is getting thick, it's obviously sacrificing joint strength. Don't buy large quantities. Thin CA goes a long way and so does thick therefore you don't need much of it. I personally detest Bob Smith products . It only takes me once to determine what works and what doesn't. I have had failures using Bob Smith products and I won't use them. I'm a fan of ZAP and I use a Teflon straw that inserts into the bottle that seems to prevent hardening at the tip not to mention premature thickening of the material. The tips that come with the bottles are useless and do nothing but clog the tips and ruin the top of your bottle. Too many times I have experienced what you mention in regards to the CA getting thick. I don't place mine in the refrigerator but it is located in a dehumidified basement.
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Happy Re: Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

Post  Cribbs74 on Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:56 am

This is kind of funny, I don't do anything and my stuff is always good. I go through it quick enough I suppose, I also only buy what I need.
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Happy Re: Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

Post  roddie on Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:58 am

I'll add that I generally build small models.. and they've been far and few between as of late. The small 3g tubes serve me well.. and in the event that one dries-up.. it's not like I'm out a lot of money. It does go a long way as Ken mentioned.

I haven't bought any in almost four years.. but when I get down to one 4-pack of the "thin".. I usually buy another one. I've had good luck with the Henkel/Loctite brands. The "thin" 4-pack of 3g tubes is sold at my area Walmart stores in a generic-type/no-name packaging.. but is made by Henkel (Loctite). The package used to cost less than $1.00 but now it's $1.46.. The thick-gel type I buy at Walmart is Loctite-branded... and is a lot more expensive; at close to $3.00 for two 2g tubes.

Here's a photo of them side by side.




Again.. IMO.. it's all about the fitting of the joints when using CA.. (especially the thin-grade). You shouldn't expect it to fill gaps. I take the extra time that I'd spend waiting for other types of glues to dry.. to make good-fitting joints. If your making a balsa part.. make your cut(s) as square as possible. I use a razor-saw where I can.. with a rail of 1/2" sq. hardwood as a fence, to make my cuts as perpendicular as possible. A balsa-stripper with a good sharp blade and a straight-edge as a fence, works very good for making long-cuts in the direction of the grain. It's a very easy tool to make.. if you don't have one.

As far as assembling my pieces with CA joints.. I usually wear firm-fitting vinyl surgical-gloves and hold the two pieces together "firmly" for at least 10 seconds. I rarely use accelerator. I'm starting to wear the gloves more often now whenever handling any model parts. It keeps the oil in your skin (fingers..) off the surfaces. You can't really wipe-down balsa-wood construction effectively with an alcohol pad. Think about how much you handle a model during it's construction. There's oily fingerprints all over it by the time it's done.


Last edited by roddie on Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : corrections-red text)
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Happy Re: Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

Post  RknRusty on Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:30 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:For what it's worth, I only use Loctite 406 in the 25 gram bottle.  Keep it in the fridge & seems to last well.  It bonds materials that other "super glues" won't look at.  Real eye stinger.  Smokes joining rubber.
Worst I've ever tried was "Gorilla".  Useless stuff.

I like the looks of that, so next time I buy, I'll look for it.
Rusty

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Happy Re: Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:34 pm

RknRusty wrote:
Oldenginerod wrote:For what it's worth, I only use Loctite 406 in the 25 gram bottle.  Keep it in the fridge & seems to last well.  It bonds materials that other "super glues" won't look at.  Real eye stinger.  Smokes joining rubber.
Worst I've ever tried was "Gorilla".  Useless stuff.

I like the looks of that, so next time I buy, I'll look for it.
Rusty
It's not cheap & I don't know if you can get the same over there but it's more industrial grade.  I buy the large quantity because I use lots for my work.  
I got a large bottle of thick non-branded stuff off ebay once and it wasn't bad.  It's always a gamble buying unknown brands, but the price varies enormously and sometimes you gotta take the chance.
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Happy Re: Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

Post  bamboozler on Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:46 pm

Great info fellas, I know Henkel/Loctite brands are excellent so I'll give them a try.
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Post  NEW222 on Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:45 pm

I have to second the nomination for the $ store brand bottles. I am not a huge builder, but I can get 3 or 4 tubes in a bottle for around $1.25 or $1.50 locally here at the $ stores. I have not yet had a problem.
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Happy Re: Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

Post  Oldenginerod on Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:26 pm

NEW222 wrote:I have to second the nomination for the $ store brand bottles. I am not a huge builder, but I can get 3 or 4 tubes in a bottle for around $1.25 or $1.50 locally here at the $ stores. I have not yet had a problem.
These may work on wood and other porous materials but in my experience they will not do the job on many plastics. Mind you, they will still stick your fingers together just as well as the expensive stuff. Laughing
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Happy Thanks guys

Post  fredvon4 on Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:06 pm

I know Ken is right that the smoke is not THE indicator...but in the past the heat and smoke gave me a good clue when I could let go and feel confident the two parts were glued

Most of the Thin I use from Tower (great planes),or my local hobby shop BSI stuff ,and some bottles the Thin from SigMfg all the 1 oz bottles seem to take a LOT of time to do their thing....no smoke...and if let loose too soon the two parts are just two parts

Then of course I seem to remember open bottles of 1970s Hot Stuff or Zapp still being good the next building season after sitting on the shelf 5 to 7 months. I ad one unopened bottle that went around the world with me for 15+/- years. I had put it inside a kit and when I finally found it was still good. My memory of the old Hot Stuff or Zapp was the PITA with clogged tips....long before I learned to soak in acetone

I don't recall back then being schooled to refrigerate the CA glues....just make sure they were sealed from air or moisture

Any way live n learn...I picked up a small frig from wally world for the shop beer---ah, um er..I mean glue storage....grin

I found the Loctite stuff in the crafts section to try out. And back in paint, they had both versions of the tubes shown above...cheap so will try them too
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Happy Re: Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

Post  Ken Cook on Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:46 pm

I do remember the Hot Stuff from the 70's. That would literally set the work bench on fire. The bottles were incredibly small and they seemed to last a long time. If that spilled on your clothes it was burning your skin. While I have had some similar incidents, they were nothing like traditional Hot Stuff.
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Happy Re: Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

Post  ian1954 on Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:26 pm


I use the Roket range



but the Roket Hot - thin, penetrating and fast setting - really is hot! Very hot!

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t6989-an-enexpected-but-stupid-burn?highlight=Stupid
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Happy Re: Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

Post  bamboozler on Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:16 am

Too many chemical burns would explain why all the manufacturers have toned down the formulas. Perhaps brought on by lawsuits.
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Happy Re: Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

Post  fredvon4 on Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:44 am

Deluxe brand glues

I have only used one glue from that brand, and I like it a lot

Super'Phatic is a very thin wood glue that wicks into dry porous wood very well. The stuff acts a lot like CA but 5 to 10 min dry time

http://www.horizonhobby.com/cars-and-trucks/glues-and-adhesives/super-phatic!-dlmad21
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Happy StarBond CA

Post  sws200 on Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:38 pm

I have been using StarBond CA glue for a few years... I buy the 16 oz bottles and keep in the refrigerator. They give you small bottles for the bench... Good folks and they have a wide variety of products... I have been very satisfied with their glues www.starbond.com email them and they will send a price sheet
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Happy Re: Zapp/Hot Stuff or any other GOOD FAST CA glue question

Post  RknRusty on Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:26 pm

SWS, Welcome to CEF. Glad you found us.
Rusty

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