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"Rattle can" paints?

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"Rattle can" paints?

Post  rsv1cox on Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:11 pm

New222 (and others here) alluded Walmart rattle can paints which he used on one of his models. But I have always shyed away from using them due to a perceived low resistance to "hot fuel" damage. I have high regard though for Krylon spray paints and use them often, just not on my models.

I use Top Flights dope based spray products at about eight bucks a can and would not mind saving money if solvent based sprays work without surcoming to hot fuel or just fuel damage.

Can these be used safely?
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  NEW222 on Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:15 pm

Well, I can only provide information based on my own experiences. As for rattle can paints, I have pretty much used the cheap ones from WalMart in the USA. I believe the black and white ones are $1, and the blue, red, green ones as well as the primer are around $1.40. Those are the ones I am and have only used on 1/2a planes. I can honestly also say that I used to 'put it on' thick after a quick coat of primer so the finish is smooth, but not thinking of the weight. Now, I am putting on 2-3 coats of the primer, allowing to dry for a day, sanding, then applying the color, usually waiting 24 hours before taping off and masking for another color. As for topcoat, this varies. Like I said, I used to put it on thick, and as well as recently just enough to cover, but had always used hot fuel. Back when I started flying, I was using 25% nitro mainly, and once 15%. As of late, I have been using 20%, although it is slightly lower now due to me adding a couple ounces of castor per quart. But after a day of flying, if I remembered, I wiped it off mostly just with a paper towel and had never thought about it being attacked by the nitro. Albeit, I had let it dry for at least a few days before flying them after painting. But this year, a local gentleman had mentioned to use Minwax rattle can clear on top of one plane I had doped, and now put 1 - 2 light coats of it on top of my rattle can paint just for extra insurance. I hope this may help and answer some of your question.
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  pkrankow on Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:00 pm

I have had good results from Rustoleum enamels. 25% nitro does temporarily discolor where fuel puddles, but there is minimal transfer with light rubbing. The color returns to normal after a day or so. I have not tested lower nitro fuel.

My test is as follows:
On a test sample which is prepared on a block of wood and allowed a minimum of 14 days to cure off

apply fuel (Sig Champion 25%) to a paper towel.
apply paper towel to sample
cover paper towel and sample with plastic (bag or saran wrap)
after 1 hour inspect for
-peeling (coating failure is a failed sample do not use this paint)
-color changes (this may or may not be of concern)

If the coating is intact, rub lightly with the paper towel Inspect for
-coating failure (if coating fails or peels or tears this paint is not suitable)
-color transfer to paper towel

slight color transfer is expected and acceptable. Some color change is allowable (may not be suitable if appearance is important). Coating failure is not allowed.

Some paints will simply sough off (Kills primer) others will soften till they simply wear away very very quickly. Enamels tend to have some color transfer but a hard coating stays in place.

Phil
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  RknRusty on Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:04 pm

Next time I use rattlecan enamel, I want to try Duplicolor. That'll probably be on my Micro Ringmaster. It won't save money, but maybe the quality will be worth it.

JPvelo used the DC Enamel on his Twister, and his description of it was much like my experience with the DC Lacquer on my Twister, even drying almost as fast as he applied it, which is a drawback of the slow Rustoleum enamel. We can ask him if the DC enamel has the same adjustable spray nozzle, because I think that is part of the thin even coverage. Depending on which way you turn it, you can shoot a sharp narrow pattern for corners like the wing root, or a wide knife edge for fast passes along the flat surfaces. There is not the traditional cone of spray with a heavy center and weak edge, which I think is the reason for the nice even coverage. It makes for much less runs and drips.

Enamel is heavier than lacquer, but since you don't have to go back and forth so much, it probably finishes lighter than other brands. And it's pretty fuel resistant. Lacquer is not. The lacquer does accept clear Lustrekote better, but there goes your weight savings.

If I do it before y'all do, I'll report on it.
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  OVERLORD on Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:29 am

For my next project, I will try Motip heat resistant paint. According to the manufacturer, it is fuel and chemical resistant.

http://www.motip.com/products/motip/automotive/universal-lacquers/heat-resistant-lacquer/
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  JPvelo on Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:00 am

I've found the Dupli Color acrylic enamel to be fuel resistant to 20% nitro. Always spray a test patch from a new can. Out of probably 20 cans purchased I've had 2 shoot a terrible splatter pattern that had to be sanded off. I don't know if it was a bad nozzle or what.

As far as primer, DC 540 all the way. Spray it on thick and sand 5 minutes later. The easiest sanding primer I've used.

Jim
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  KariFS on Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:01 am

OVERLORD wrote:For my next project, I will try Motip heat resistant paint. According to the manufacturer, it is fuel and chemical resistant.

http://www.motip.com/products/motip/automotive/universal-lacquers/heat-resistant-lacquer/

Some (not all) of those heat resistant paints require a heat treatment to cure properly, such as heating to 150-170 deg C, so you may want to check that first Smile
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  NEW222 on Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:40 am

KariFS wrote:
OVERLORD wrote:For my next project, I will try Motip heat resistant paint. According to the manufacturer, it is fuel and chemical resistant.

http://www.motip.com/products/motip/automotive/universal-lacquers/heat-resistant-lacquer/

Some (not all) of those heat resistant paints require a heat treatment to cure properly, such as heating to 150-170 deg C, so you may want to check that first Smile

Oh, that would surely be something to see!
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  fredvon4 on Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:40 am

some experience observations:

Duplicolor and Rustoleum one piece spray nozzles suck...thry do not spray well and are hard to clean

As are all others that are one piece.... the best, seem to be the nozzle with the turnable small part that makes a fan pattern horizontal or vertical

I have now finished and flown (somewhat frequently) two Enamel finished (Fuselage) planes, and with my normal 15% N fuel, do not show any deterioration for the fuselage finish

The one enamel finished fuselage (Lil J Bean) that sees 25% N has not flown enough times to say... but the 2 times I flew it..I wiped down with a rag and sitting here on my wall does not show any deterioration of the paint

I invested too much money early on with the Tower hobbies LustreKote dope based spray. Most cans were not sprayable due to solids in the can....cut my losses.... and switched to Rustoleum and later the ACE brand enamels (Ace Brand nozzles are perfectly good but not interchangeable to the Rustoleum cans)

I also love KBS Diamond clear--- and now with just released 15 oz spray cans a little cheaper...the 4 Oz sample was horrible expensive

If you choose to try KBS Diamond clear, please please please follow directions and ensure ANY color coating has fully cured first!!!!
Then very lightly scuff with scotch pad, then alcohol wash, followed by tack rag and NO uncovered hand touching....and IMPORTANT... your plane / part to be painted ....must never be near engine exhaust, cigarette smoke, or any silicone oils....

I painted a cool engine one time with VHT Caliper high temp... NOT Nitro/methane fuel proof... but does not care about gasoline or oil

I did same with KBS and Napa engine enamels.... same result...I have NOT yet found a high temp paint impervious to Nitro fuels ...pity cus I love painted engines

Bottom line IMO is the spray bomb enamels are very good--- and plenty fuel resistant/proof.

I have no desire to do two models exactly the same, but one dope and one enamel to see about weight...

Har Dee har...there is always a more powerful engine, Nitro, prop combination to haul a PIG around

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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  OVERLORD on Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:47 am

KariFS wrote:
OVERLORD wrote:For my next project, I will try Motip heat resistant paint. According to the manufacturer, it is fuel and chemical resistant.

http://www.motip.com/products/motip/automotive/universal-lacquers/heat-resistant-lacquer/

Some (not all) of those heat resistant paints require a heat treatment to cure properly, such as heating to 150-170 deg C, so you may want to check that first Smile

I checked the small letters on the can and that's what it says. It needs heating to 160°C to harden. but does "dry but not hardened" mean "not resistant"?
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  Marleysky on Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:05 pm

RC Plane
OVERLORD wrote:
KariFS wrote:
OVERLORD wrote:For my next project, I will try Motip heat resistant paint. According to the manufacturer, it is fuel and chemical resistant.

http://www.motip.com/products/motip/automotive/universal-lacquers/heat-resistant-lacquer/

Some (not all) of those heat resistant paints require a heat treatment to cure properly, such as heating to 150-170 deg C, so you may want to check that first Smile

I checked the small letters on the can and that's what it says. It needs heating to 160°C to harden. but does "dry but not hardened" mean "not resistant"?


Yeow!  160c is 320f . The balsa may not melt at that temp, but possibly warp?  Might try to heat cure with a mono coat heat gun, or slide it in the kitchen oven when the chefs not around Hot
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  roddie on Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:58 pm

I want to try the Minwax clear-poly aerosol spray sealer. My most durably-painted model was one that was painted with a Pactra Formula-U (Polyurethane) rattle-can and flown quite a bit on 25% nitro. After 25 years.. it's still looks recently painted. It helps to wipe-down the painted-surfaces of fuel residue promptly.. even between flights. I used to throw a rag over the engine and mist-spray the model with a qt. size trigger-sprayer filled with windshield-washer fluid. A quick wipe with a paper-towel.. and the oil comes right off. Better to not let it sit there after a flight that only gave it a minutes-long exposure. Maybe one of your models has an engine that's a hard-starter when hot. If setting aside.. it's smart to wipe it down while it's cooling down, before switching to a second model. A qt. bottle of spray-cleaner and a rag don't take up much room in your flight-tote. (I'm trying to stay on track here.. honestly)  Smile Care taken at the field has a lot to do with how your finish holds up.



I used the "International Orange".. and must have laid it on heavy.. because the can's almost empty..  Laughing



I wouldn't hesitate trying any polyurethane clear aerosol in light-coats over any garden-variety enamel base-color.. as long as the base-color has dried completely.. however long that takes. Maybe de-gloss (if a gloss base color) for better adhesion of the clear-coat?   

Many aerosol paints recommend either recoating within a few minutes.. or if not; having to wait several hours/days before recoating. I tend to think that waiting it out between several light-coats is better. I'd rather sand settled-dust from a light coating.. than a heavy one.

I have some Krylon epoxy-enamel cans with those adjustable "fan-spray" nozzles.. but they're pretty old.



This type looks to only fit a valve that's made for it.

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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  NEW222 on Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:39 pm

Ok roddie. Not to take away from the topic at hand, I have a couple of things for you. First, that is a cool little design. Do you recall what model it is as I had not honestly seen a 1/2a profile Cox powered bird with flaps. Secondly, even better is thet you have it equipped with skiis! Now that is cool.
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:50 pm

Thanks for all the replys. Learn from the experience of others I always say.

But after a close read I see no mention of use on silkspan and similar fabrics. Would it have the same necessary uniform shrinking effect on those surfaces?

Bob
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  NEW222 on Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:04 pm

It has been a while, but, back around 2000, I had built a Baby Lightening Streak and covered it with the supplied silkspan and would have used the same rattle cans from WalMart on it as well. I flew it a few times from what I remember with no ill effects before it met its demise! I have a Lil' Jumpin' Bean right now waiting for paint, but with the limited selection of colors I have are making me choose a design before painting.
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  fredvon4 on Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:39 pm

Exactly! the adjustable spray pattern nozzles ONLY fit ONE type of can and outlet pipe

I absolutely love Preval sprayers and dearly wish I could adapt them to the much better Nozzles

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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  fredvon4 on Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:51 pm

Bob
absolutely NO

For poly span... I spray enamel and then use SLC for gloss coat and fuel proof..too easy

For silk I still use water to expand....dry, it shrinks enough...then dope to fill and then color...but next one will be KBS Diamond instead of Randolph dope clear top coats

PS I use Commercial Randolph Butyrate tautening and non-tautening clear dope with same brand thinners

If you manage to get drum tight with tissue, silk, or poly--- I see no reason to expect Enamel to further tighten... I will say it does NOT make it loosen and sag

One of theses days I want to try Nelson water based paints as Ken Cook recommends but for now, my good enough for me are done with $$$$$ and ease as a priority
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  Ken Cook on Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:43 pm

Nelson and water based polyurethanes will not shrink tissue, silkspan or silk. You still need to dope first and they can't be butyrate dope. Most spray paints are enamels. I have yet to see a rattle can Rustoleum finish not fail. It looks real good but quickly in the areas that are exposed to fuel and hands it  become dull then sticky and then it really looks bad. This is also after it had cured for weeks. I like the water based poly due to flying the same day.  My experience with seeing failure has been with the multiple of guys in the club that have used it based on a Allan Brickhaus recommendation. I noted that the weight is not good and I choose other proven methods that don't keep me guessing. I will note that I've seen a lot of failure when Rustoleum is shot over dope that hasn't gassed off properly. It seems as though the top coat never dries.


            I have since been experimenting with Auto Air Colors which is also water based. If your insistent on using a fabric like covering, you should consider using polyspan because you can apply it with dope and then shrink it with a iron. I never use primer. All of my filler coats are done with clear dope and if needed, I make my own sanding sealer.
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  roddie on Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:23 pm

NEW222 wrote:Ok roddie. Not to take away from the topic at hand, I have a couple of things for you. First, that is a cool little design. Do you recall what model it is as I had not honestly seen a 1/2a profile Cox powered bird with flaps. Secondly, even better is thet you have it equipped with skiis! Now that is cool.

Thanks New, I'll send you a PM.
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  RknRusty on Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:23 pm

fredvon4 wrote:some experience observations:

Duplicolor and Rustoleum one piece spray nozzles suck...they do not spray well and are hard to clean

As are all others that are one piece.... the best, seem to be the nozzle with the turnable small part that makes a fan pattern horizontal or vertical

Fred and Jim:
Fred, did your Duplicolor enamel cans not have the little rotating spray adjuster? That's the type I raved about on their lacquer cans. Jim, did your Dup enamel have that or not? It's disappointing if they don't.
Rusty

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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  fredvon4 on Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:07 am

Rusty... not sure now about the color cans of DC..none on hand right now...the DC 540 Primer cans are typical plain nozzle
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  Marleysky on Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:31 pm

....Really?   It's Rusty's Phault.  He wrote such a glowing dissertation on his success with the DC Rattle cans that when I happened onto a "Sale" of them I could not resist.  Yes I just checked and they DO have the adjustable Fan Spray nozzle.    Now if I could only sit still l long enough to actually Build something with all the Glue and Paint.....
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  OVERLORD on Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:36 am

OVERLORD wrote:
KariFS wrote:
OVERLORD wrote:For my next project, I will try Motip heat resistant paint. According to the manufacturer, it is fuel and chemical resistant.

http://www.motip.com/products/motip/automotive/universal-lacquers/heat-resistant-lacquer/

Some (not all) of those heat resistant paints require a heat treatment to cure properly, such as heating to 150-170 deg C, so you may want to check that first Smile

I checked the small letters on the can and that's what it says. It needs heating to 160°C to harden. but does "dry but not hardened" mean "not resistant"?

Good news!!!

The plywood plate I used for mounting the product engine for my VTO plane was painted in the blaack MOTIP heat resistant paint. I put on 3 layers at about 9.00h  in the morning, let it dry and I had the engine running at 15.00h. I left it dirty over night and this morning, by touching it I didn't have black fingers!!!

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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  KariFS on Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:47 am

Hey Lieven, that's great news Thumbs Up

I assume you did not "bake" it Hot
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Re: "Rattle can" paints?

Post  OVERLORD on Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:01 am

That's right, without baking!!
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