Cox Engines Forum
You are not logged in! Please login or register! Guests are limited to posting in the "General Questions (Guest Posting Allowed)" section only. Becoming a member is fast, easy and FREE!


Log in

I forgot my password

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Cox Engine of The Month
October-2018
Mudhen's

"Prototype T.D. .010 c.1960"



PAST WINNERS
Speed Contest 2018
CEF Traveling Engine

Win This Engine!
The Traveling Prop
Gallery


World of Aviation

The engine comment debate!

Go down

The engine comment debate!

Post  ian1954 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:50 pm

I have started this topic as a couple of recent posts are getting sidetracked by our preferences/loyalties to engine manufacturers. It is obvious that everyone wants to express their feelings on the matter but in a short posting it is easy to cause offence either with a comment or by not commenting at all.

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t10352p25-a-hurlable-fox-15#130950

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t10362-enya-09-ii#130944

We are all different, from different backgrounds, varying age groups and have different life experiences and so we are bound to have a certain modicum of bias.

Now before I carry on, for those who aren't aware - I have probably run up more engines than anyone else on this site. I have flown with very few but I have modded may for flyers. Model engines are my hobby and throughout the passage of many thousands of engines through my hands - there are only two that I consider crap.

The DC Bantam and the Deezil. Now, as I have said before, as a young boy the DC Bantam was my first glow brand new glow engine - I read the engine test report and was more than sorely disappointed with the engine and its lack of power. Having only run diesel engines.

Did that put me off glow engines? --- YES!!

My next new engine was an Enya 15. Easy to start and very powerful (for the time!) but with the addition of a silencer - it lost power and gained too much weight. So I replaced it on the model with a PAW 15 and then a PAW 19.

Did this put me of glow engines even further?-----YES!!

So, the most of my control line flying was under diesel power. That also combined with the simple fact that glow fuel was expensive - we could make up our own diesel fuel - it didn't smell as nice, glow engines don't have the diesel bark and almost all the good diesel engines (bias alert!!!) were British! - and you didn't need expensive (at the time) batteries and glow plugs.

So - is my opinion likely to be biased? Of course.

I have an open mind about all engines - except the two mentioned above. I see quite a few negative comments on many sites where I then see the exact opposite positive comments.

An engine is the easiest thing to blame for the shortcomings in a built model, piloting skills and engine set up. The BluePants that I put the Enya in was way too heavy!

Quite a few of my inherited engines have had a short running life due to them being dismissed as crap. I have found that in the majority of cases - they were not run in properly and given the required TLC from the beginning. These days a brand new in box engine carries a premium but back in the sixties - a used and run in engine carried the premium. Engines like Oliver Tigers (bias show again) ran better and better and pistons/cylinders were easily replaced. They were built to last and not throw a ways.

Premium engines were finished by hand and test run before leaving the factory.

As each one of us is individual - so is each engine. No two are exactly the same!

Our biases are built on past experience and memories. These are often reinforced with time.

I value other chaps (not chapesses! Bias showing again!) comments because they are based (not biased) on experience or sometimes lack of it. All engines are "fettleable" with very little effort but require patience. Negative comments help lead to a solution.

I have never flown 2-4-2 but have altered engines so that they will perform the break. (Not necessary with diesels! Bias again!) There is no set formula for this and there are many variables but it is doable.

However, I find a lot of negative comments are based on engine power and I summarise that easily. The engine wasn't matched to the model! Many old kits specify, what is to me, a dubious range - The Carl Goldberg Buster says .19 to .35 engines. That is one hell of a range without even considering a particular engines performance. Would you use and Enya 19, a PAW 29 or a Fox 35.

Some are easy. The Blue Pants was designed around and won with an ED Racer 2.49 cc diesel. So base on my bias and experience - you are also safe to install an Oliver Tiger or a PAW 15. Mufflers make very little difference to these but a Fox 15, Enya 15 or OS MAX 15 would be a different story with a silencer fitted. Without - who knows?

Am I exhibiting bias, preference, loyalty or all three.

On the other hand - I wouldn't put one of those diesels in an RC plane with throttle control!

I like the Fox engines and have quite a few but you have to remember that they weren't available here during my formative years. I can tell you though that they need careful running in and if you expect them to perform on any old fuel from the get go - then forget it.

A pal gave me a Fox 35 to fettle - he wanted to put it in an original Nobler kit he was building. There was no history with the engine and it was gummed up. There were no carbon deposits or glazing in it but it was clapped out. No compression worth talking about. If I was to base my opinion on Fox engines and that example it wouldn't be good but I have several 35's in my collection that were well used and are still as tight as a Duck's a..e.

That engine was recovered by case hardening the liner and re honing the piston. It has had three hours on it since then - one of which was running in. His opinion is one of being very pleased with it! Mine is that this was another badly treated engine that would give a bad name to the manufacturer. Try recovering a more modern ABC, AAC, ABN, XYZ engine. I would not contemplate a second hand one unless I knew the history!

We all have our favourites.

Now, I also hold the record on this site for unanswered posts with not one single comment. They are usually engine postings - Non Cox engines, Diesel Engines -- there are 17 with zero replies. More elsewhere.

In fact, out of 535 unanswered posts - 50 of them are mine. It is not my fault that you don't like Diesel engines and are all biased!

Joking aside, I find it difficult to post a reply on topics that I am not familiar with. I didn't know the the Enya 09-II was rare. In the period it was produced - few would have made it here and it wouldn't have been seen as a top of the queue engine.

The foreign glows didn't take off until RC became affordable and reliable. This left diesels behind. For RC - I am electric only!!!!!!!! Not a single British motor in my collection! Not biased - we don't make anything anymore!









avatar
ian1954
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2425
Join date : 2011-11-16
Age : 64
Location : England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  Oldenginerod on Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:29 pm

ian1954 wrote:
Now, I also hold the record on this site for unanswered posts with not one single comment. They are usually engine postings - Non Cox engines, Diesel Engines -- there are 17 with zero replies. More elsewhere.

In fact, out of 535 unanswered posts - 50 of them are mine. It is not my fault that you don't like Diesel engines and are all biased!

Joking aside, I find it difficult to post a reply on topics that I am not familiar with.

Well, I won't leave you with another unanswered post Ian, but I'm not sure there's much more I can say.  I can't help but think my "Fox" comments stirred up some robust discussion, which is always good.  I don't think any negative came from it.  That is certainly never my intent.  What I lack in practical experience I make up for in my "research" on the www.  Everyone's experiences are different.  All hail free speech!
avatar
Oldenginerod
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2252
Join date : 2012-06-15
Age : 56
Location : Victoria, Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  GallopingGhostler on Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:29 pm

ian1954 wrote:In fact, out of 535 unanswered posts - 50 of them are mine. It is not my fault that you don't like Diesel engines and are all biased!

Joking aside, I find it difficult to post a reply on topics that I am not familiar with. I didn't know the the Enya 09-II was rare. In the period it was produced - few would have made it here and it wouldn't have been seen as a top of the queue engine.

The foreign glows didn't take off until RC became affordable and reliable. This left diesels behind. For RC - I am electric only!!!!!!!! Not a single British motor in my collection! Not biased - we don't make anything anymore!

Here across the pond, regarding diesels, reason why you don't see more US users of them is because contrary to EU, nitro was easily obtainable and nitro based glow fuel was definitely affordable. I recall even from the 1960's, only a few outlets were carrying diesels, and thus so were a rarity that I occasionally read about purchasing Aeromodeller from some larger book stores with an International section.

Then Davis Diesel came on the scene in the early 1970's (as far as I can recall). Now Coxes and a few other glow engines could be converted to diesel. However, due to the prolific nature of glow fuel engines and fuel, I felt no urgency to go diesel. Had I been brought up on your side of the pond, I would have probably been deeply into diesels and wondering why colonist rebels who exercised the original Brexit and also dumped all that lovely tea overboard (we are a wasteful and ungrateful lot, aren't we? Laughing) don't fly diesel. Tired w/ Coffee Read What? Eyebrows Smile

So, in a nutshell that is probably why most of us (at least I) are clueless when it comes to diesels. drunken
avatar
GallopingGhostler
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1706
Join date : 2013-07-13
Age : 64
Location : Clovis, New Mexico

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  ian1954 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:52 pm

This is why we have different tastes in engines. By the way, I know this site is predominantly US based and so i am not surprised that diesels aren't high on most agendas. Our prejudices are based on our experiences and lack of knowledge.

We are lucky today to have the Interweb - just a shame you can't believe everything you read.
avatar
ian1954
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2425
Join date : 2011-11-16
Age : 64
Location : England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  ian1954 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:53 pm

Rod,

I agree with the comment you posted but I find that loyalty and preference run deep.

You don't have to answer this  but just think about it and the reasons for your choice.

You have the opportunity to select one engine - brand new with the box and paperwork from the list below.

PAW 19 TBR



Any one of these Enya 19s



A Fox 19 BB



AM 3.5cc



Taipan 3.5cc glow



Oliver Tiger Major



OS 19



Now although this is a simplification as diesels, glow and RC are mixed in this.

For collecting I would have a little difficulty choosing between the Taipan and the Oliver Tiger, even though I have a few Oliver Tiger Majors and the Taipan is one of those glowy things. The Taipan looks nice, it has an appealing appearance and they are difficult to get in the UK.

If the choice was dependent upon flying it - then it would be the Oliver Tiger although I would be happy with the AM and the PAW for flying.


I wouldn't refuse any of them but if my selection was restricted then the Japanese engines would be at the back of the queue. It is all about preference and appearance with some motors.

I fully understand the Fox aficionados - you grow up with them, they are your first big engine, you are surround by Fox engines at your flying field. I am the same with Ollies and PAWs. (and Super Tigres if I have to select a glowy thing)

I posted this

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t7131-fox-15-1975?highlight=1975+%2B+Fox

The response was excellent and knowledgeable. Again the Steelfin loose gudgeon pin is mentioned but that is easily resolved but applies to one engine out of many 15s. The 15BB and the 15X get worthy mentions by owners and flyers.

avatar
ian1954
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2425
Join date : 2011-11-16
Age : 64
Location : England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  Oldenginerod on Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:05 pm

ian1954 wrote:Rod,

I agree with the comment you posted but I find that loyalty and preference run deep.

You don't have to answer this  but just think about it and the reasons for your choice.

You have the opportunity to select one engine - brand new with the box and paperwork from the list below.


I'll wear my heart on my sleeve and make a selection.  (Hypothetical I assume).

You give me little choice but to show my own bias.  You went and included a Taipan! cheers I can do none other! ("Loyalty").

Honestly, if I were a frequent enough flyer to choose a preferred "user" engine rather than a collector, and I didn't face the extreme difficulty of securing an economical source of ether out here, then, to your delight, it would have to be the P.A.W. (Actually yet to add one to my collction).
avatar
Oldenginerod
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2252
Join date : 2012-06-15
Age : 56
Location : Victoria, Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  Marleysky on Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:11 pm

ian1954 wrote:I have started this topic as a couple of recent posts are getting sidetracked by our preferences/loyalties to engine manufacturers. It is obvious that everyone wants to express their feelings on the matter but in a short posting it is easy to cause offence either with a comment or by not commenting at all.

Now, I also hold the record on this site for unanswered posts with not one single comment. They are usually engine postings - Non Cox engines, Diesel Engines -- there are 17 with zero replies. More elsewhere.

In fact, out of 535 unanswered posts - 50 of them are mine. It is not my fault that you don't like Diesel engines and are all biased!

Joking aside, I find it difficult to post a reply on topics that I am not familiar with. I didn't know the the Enya 09-II was rare. In the period it was produced - few would have made it here and it wouldn't have been seen as a top of the queue engine.

The foreign glows didn't take off until RC became affordable and reliable. This left diesels behind. For RC - I am electric only!!!!!!!! Not a single British motor in my collection! Not biased - we don't make anything anymore!

MARLEYSKY Wrote:

Ian, Just a quick note, I hope you are not getting despondent in the fact that you have the most "unanswered posts"  I do  enjoy viewing and reading your posts about your experience(s) with them.I just don't feel qualified to make a comment on items I know nothing about. I do appreciate you taking the  time to post the pictures and information on your collection. As I age, I 've found that the more I learn about something, there is a lot more that I don't know..so I enjoy learning about new things I know nothing about!









Last edited by Marleysky on Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : edit quote)
avatar
Marleysky
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

I Support My Forum

Posts : 1886
Join date : 2014-09-28
Age : 66
Location : Grand Rapids, MI

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  Surfer_kris on Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:12 am

ian1954 wrote:For RC - I am electric only!!!!!!!! Not a single British motor in my collection!

I'm shocked! Wink

You should try RC diesels then, they are perhaps the perfect engine in many ways. Easy starting, pulls large props without any fuss and never suddenly stops at low throttle.  cheers
avatar
Surfer_kris
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1510
Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  Ken Cook on Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:19 am

I have a lot to contribute to this conversation. Unfortunately, my early starts and long hours leaves me less than 15 min for computer time. I hope we can perpetuate this thread and I can catch it again on my next visit. I think I can shed a lot of light on some of the topics you mentioned Ian. Until next time, same bat place, same bat channel. Ken
avatar
Ken Cook
Top Poster
Top Poster

Posts : 3251
Join date : 2012-03-27
Location : pennsylvania

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  KariFS on Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:56 am

I also enjoy the enthusiasm and expertese of everyone's posts. Ian, Ken, Bob, Rusty, Roddie, Rod, Kim, George, Kris, Lieven, Andras... Just to name a few, and surely I've forgotten to mention someone.

Many of the contributors have played with "toy planes" for decades, and I truly enjoy the stories and pictures. I feel a lot like Marleysky, if I cannot really add anything to the conversation, I'll just try my best to shut up and listen Popcorn Both here and also in real life Smile

I had that one Babe Bee mounted on a glider when I was 12 or 13 (still have it) and now I have been collecting engines for maybe two and a half years. I don't run them a lot because of the noise and my inexperience, I am still practising and also gathering equipment. This is still a new world to me.

So, please keep the stories and pictures coming, guys Thumbs Up

avatar
KariFS
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1343
Join date : 2014-10-10
Age : 47
Location : Finland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  rsv1cox on Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:55 am

Yes, Maryleysky said it best. Sometimes you folks talk so far above my head my ability to comprehend goes into sleep mode. My 35 year hiatus from the hobby shows.

Ian, my first model engine was a diesel. A mail-order from a magazine in the mid forties. The instructions said to use ether as a fuel, somehow my mother got a hold of some. Not surprisingly, I never got it to run. Then I discovered Cox engines. Smile

If variety is the spice of life, then this hobby wise, you are living large. To me the diversity of model engines that "have passed though your hands" is mind boggling. My Enya affliction is due to the fact that as previously mentioned my first "big boy" engine was an Enya. Had it been a Taipan or a Frog........wouldn't that have been nice.

Bob
avatar
rsv1cox
Top Poster
Top Poster

Posts : 3189
Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : West Virginia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  gcb on Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:14 am

I am as guilty as the next guy for not answering some of those engine posts. Usually it is because I have no experience with that particular engine or what I would say has already been said.

I started flying in ~1953 using a 1/2A OK Cub engine. My first new engine was a Space Bug Junior which I flew on a "hollow log". My first diesel was a McCoy .049. When I went larger than 1/2A I had a Supertigre G30 .15 (2.5cc), then a Supertigre G31 .09 (1.5cc). I still have the .09.

There were few guys running diesels in my area in those days so I had to learn on my own...and I had the aching bloody fingers to prove it.

I found that I like running engines as much as flying...perhaps even more.

I do have a DEEZIL replica that runs great...unlike the original. Someone once gave me a couple of engines that I never got running. An O&R .23 that was worn out. I'm sure I could get it running now, but not when I was a kid. A THOR .29 that had already been run ( Very Happy  for those who understand slag engines.) I guess my favorite engine is an Oliver Tiger Mk-III .15 that I bought new in the late fifties.

Oops, I'm rambling on. Sorry. I guess the point is that I like to discuss experiences with engines and will jump-in when I have something to contribute. Thanks for reading.

George
avatar
gcb
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Posts : 908
Join date : 2011-08-11
Location : Port Ewen, NY

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  ian1954 on Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:52 am

There is absolutely no despondency. Again I mention that it is difficult to express thoughts (well it is for me!) in a post without subjecting it to some form of misinterpretation. I see from the views that there is interest but I don't expect to see comments unless the motor strikes a chord, brings back a memory or prompts a question.

This was meant to be a soother to

"That may be true Rod, my mention within this thread of an ultra rare Enya .09II gets zero response while the Fox 15 that I have coming is covered extensively. That said, I have no problem with it. I probably bore the population here to death with my Enya ramblings. Smile

But I'm learning diversity, hense my recent involvement with Fox.

Bob"


After seeing this, my thoughts were "What's so special about an Enya II? Why would I make any effort to track one down? (Believe me I could!) Why aren't Enya engines at the top of my collecting tree? Cox engines aside - Why is there extensive knowledge and loyalty to Fox engines on this site?

We all develop our own likes and not necessarily dislikes but "doesn't ring a bell".

Rod answered the question - he may collect Enya's but would probably turn one down for a Taipan. But again this is over simplification. What if I had departed slightly from the 19 size and pictured a Rothwell 250? He would also perhaps choose practicality over emotion for a regular flying engine. Perhaps not even diesel because of the running costs.

If you (all members) were to be given access to only one engine to fly with for the rest of your life what would it be? There aren't many - one engine fits all categories about! Even with RC - we have sport, old timer, acrobatic, scale, 3D ........ Then there are all aspects of control line - combat, stunt, carrier, speed, team race ........

So a choice would be difficult.

Now as an engine collector my obsession is sub 1 cc diesels but I am not sure that I would attach one to an aeroplane. I tell a lie -- I flew a 0.05cc diesel indoors around my living room but burnt diesel fuel isn't easy to remove from walls and furniture but I found it made an ideal air freshener!

My conclusion would be that a regular flyer would prefer a larger motor. I realise that many fly with 049s, have a Cox affliction and there is no doubt that they are excellent engines but if you were only allowed one 049 engine - which Cox would it be? Or would you be like me and choose a PAW. (or Profi, Cyclon,Norvel !!). Don't answer this just think about it



Would this be because of bias or loyalty? Or the fact that I prefer diesels, a PAW can be switched rapidly between RC and CL (and as Kris has mentioned - some diesels throttle well - a PAW is one of them - but I have many that don't. They have a considerable lag and cool rapidly). Spares are easily obtainable and the engiine is still being made along with mufflers.

Then I would be confined to relatively calm days. I notice that our stunt brethren have an inbuilt love for Fox 35's and have many practical reasons for this bias. However, they tend to fly with OS 35, 40 and 46. There must be a reason but if only allowed one choice - what would it be? Why not an Enya or a Super Tigre 51?

Why didn't the Fox 35 gain popularity in the UK or Australia?

"Today, the engine is popularly referred to as the "Fox 35 Stunt" due to the great success it achieved in AMA Stunt competition in the hands of George Aldrich and a host of others. This success in the USA was not initially repeated in other countries, such as Australia, due the near unobtainability of nitromethane in the 1950's and '60s. The Fox 35 has a rather low compression ratio (about 8.5:1) and needs at least 5% nitro in the fuel to reach anywhere near its potential, or even start, for that matter. Downunder, with no nitro and no knowledge of the need for it, the Fox had a poor reputation until the problem was understood and the additive gradually became available to the common modeling public in the later 1960's."


Once an engine has gained a bad reputation - no matter how false or for what reason - recovery is difficult!

Larger than a 46 plane - I would have difficulty fitting into my Mini or strapping it to my motor bike! So there is more than one reason for choice.

As an aside - on the Windy videos I have watched - his engine of choice is the RO Jett but he always, at some point, mentions the Fox 35 with high regard. One chap I know had a couple of RO Jetts - put them on Fleabay UK - and set a reserve at half the price he paid for them. Neither of them made it!

For me - I am never going to be a "Stunt Master" and would stick with 15 size and try and choose an all rounder. I could only do this based on flying experience and not on solely bench running. I automatically think Oliver Tiger Ist choice, PAW 2nd choice. There would be no 2-4-2ing! Why would I opt for this rather than OS, Enya, Taipan, Fox, Fora, ED, ETA, ZOM, CS, Cyclon, DC, MVVS, Cox?...................... I have many 15s.

All i am really saying is that any bias or preference shown isn't meant to infer any slight on another members preference.

All I want to do is provoke some thought on engine choice and why we have our preferences.

While I have been scribbling this - there have been more gratefully received responses. This is not to gain responses but to get more of an insight into what makes us tick with engines - there is a core of members on this site that make regular postings. There is a wide variety in the topics and I read them all but also am unable to make a comment as I cannot contribute. So I also want to show that it doesn't matter and responses cannot always be expected. Most topics go off track anyway!

Quite a few of us didn't start off with Cox engines but we tend to remember our first engines with fondness (not me! Grrrrr!!!!). I was introduced to the hobby surrounded by Oliver Tigers, PAWs, Super Tigres and Mercos but it is the diesels that stuck with me.


avatar
ian1954
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2425
Join date : 2011-11-16
Age : 64
Location : England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  rsv1cox on Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:07 am

What's special about the Enya .09II  you ask? Smile

Taken directly from Bob Allan's "Compendium."  He quotes Ron Warring (Aeromodeler) and Peter Chinn MAN and other publications extensively in his 63+ page text.

As well as these 2 tests,
Ron Warring also tested
the throttle equipped 09-
II for Aero-Modeller in
Sept. 1964, noting that
“Piston-cylinder fit is
extremely good, virtually
to diesel standards.” Not
just the fit either – Chinn
compared the new 09-
II’s performance to the
standards then being
Both testers agree the 09-II
is an exceptionally good little
engine, just faultless in fact.
Unlike its bigger brother, the
15-II, this engine was only
ever seen with a shiny case.
Chinn was amazed at the
way the 09-II could turn a
Frog 6 x 4 prop @ 19,500
RPM, yet still swing a 9 x 6
@ 8,000 RPM! This Diesel
like torque at the lower
reached by the leading
diesel 1.5’s. Max power
0.176 BHP @ a little
over 16,000 RPM.
speeds most unusual for a
small glow engine, yet at the
top end, it was happy to run
at speeds approaching 20K.

Additionally, although available in Japan in 1958 it was only sold in the US for about four years starting in 1960 making it about the scarcest .09 that Enya offered.  The bearer cast MIJ on the early model II's was unknown to Mr. Allan until I brought it to his attention last year.

PS - The 15II that he mentioned was originally rendered in a shiny finish but later reverted back to the more familar Enya matte.
avatar
rsv1cox
Top Poster
Top Poster

Posts : 3189
Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : West Virginia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  fredvon4 on Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:58 am

Well back a while ago, I saw many very well done photo essays of a lot of diesel engines... Thanks Ian

I have a bad (Irrational) bias, not from model diesel engines, but from my owning more than one diesel car or trucks... the fuel smell nauseates me and this affliction is NOT  from my cars or trucks fueling and usage...

Specifically from a military experience.  
1982 Stuck in the back of a C-130 for hours and hours of low level turbulent flight with rear ramp down and the exhaust swirling inside...  

I am an aviation and roller coaster nut job--- and thousands of hours on the ocean in boats (private) ...

My inner ear adapts fast and I never get "sea sick"  but this never ending flight made me so sick it is super imprinted such that- just the smell of diesel exhaust -makes me nauseous...Of course, it Sux to be me in THIS county--- where every teenage boy MUST own the loudest and blackest exhaust Dodge diesel ever made ....grin---grrrrrr, arrgh

I do remember Ian's early diesel posts- and I asked a few questions.... mostly because I had owned, worked on, and thought I knew a lot about a diesel engines ...
It took me a while to overcome my fear of seeming stupid or ignorant, before I finally had to ask what the hell a contra piston was.   Glad I did, as Ian was patient and wrote a response that educated me ( a lot) about 2 stroke diesels.

I am one of the many who "View" his collection photos and seldom comment or ask a question

I am in awe at a lot of all the model airplane, car, and boat, power plants spanning the years 1930 to present.
I, like many, obviously have favorites and other coveted engines. I also have, perhaps an irrational, dislike of several types or brands

Add to this a specific hobby set of needs (and wants)

I guess I am a collector of sorts --in that I bought into each of the Cox International specialty engines with no planned model

But that is about as far as I go with limited funds and "not so smart" purchases... I do have a lot of duplicates of many of my 15 brand 75 engine current working stock

Example: I only have two TeeDee airplanes but 5 TeeDee .049s and 4 TeeDee .051s

Ron Cribbs and Ken Cook ( and quite a lot of StuntHanger research ) helped me acquire some exceptional Fox 35s...

Ron Helped broker a Lew Woolard( AKA Silver Foxx)  Fox .35 Stunt for a very reasonable cost that I covet...cannot wait for the plane to get done ( a lightweight Pat Johnston Ringmaster)...This engine is absolutely vibration free on the bench and so far re-starts first flip when hot....

Way back story:  Dad was McCoy guy, when I started in the .35 sized planes.
I was gifted a Enya 5224 .35 that got swapped onto a lot of crash damaged airplanes and survived my abuse very well...but I always wanted a Fox 35 ....

MUCH lighter.  
I finally finished third in a local 1971 combat contest and won a new Fox 35. That, the next weekend, the Fox .35 stunt ended up out on the freeway next to the flying site from a mid air collision....never to be replaced until 2014....BUT my memory was that Fox (stunt) .35 with a Rev-Up 8x8 and Dukes Missile Mist made my Mongoose airplanes fly a LOT faster then my heavy Enys 5224
1971 I was 16 and dumb as a box o rocks.....but we had FUN!!!!

Ian and all others...like Bob (AKA RSV1COX)

Please continue your wonderful compendiums of photo essays...

I Love This Forum!
This Site Rocks!
DAMMIT!
lol!
Computer Issues
Muchas Gracias
avatar
fredvon4
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Trusted Seller
Posts : 2509
Join date : 2011-08-26
Age : 63
Location : Lampasas Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  ian1954 on Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:53 pm

Thanks for this but according to this review

http://sceptreflight.net/Model%20Engine%20Tests/Enya%2009-III%20CL%20&%2009-III%20RC.html

the 09-III is a tad more powerful. They are both very nice engines but my question should then really be - Why the 09-II over the 09-III?

I would assume that the attraction is because of the rarirty or collectionitus. There was a gap in your collection but the engine is no better than a more recent version.

I can be the same - I have Oliver Tiger Mk III/2, MkIII/4, MkIII/5 and MKIV pluse variants in these definitions. I don't have MkI or a MKII or a MkIII/1 or a MkIII/3 - why would I track these down when I have a MkIV  with a Hard Chrome cylinder (well a few actually!)? Because this is a prime example of collectionitus.

I came across ZOM diesels recently - I now have a MkIII/C and a MKIII/D so why would I buy a MkI/C? Especially when I know that there are also 4 MkIIs, another 2 MkIs  and another 2 MkIIIs. Not to mention the G5s. Because this is an affliction I have and an interest in how series of engines develop and the similarities between different manufacturers products!

I also do not like seeing a neglected engine that can be brought back to life and even restored to almost original.

Lets take an Enya.

This was another of my finds in a pile of "scrap" engines.



Why did a get this? Because the NVA on it was what I needed to complete a very old and distinguished British diesel.

Could I leave the poor little thing all gummed up with gasket goo? Certainly not!

I already had an 049 MkII



So all I had to do was make a matching NVA, find some matching screws and make a gasket. I looked through my spares box and found a silencer for it.

Voila ......



So I now have the MkI and the MkII.

Then for some reason I got another MkII and an 06 because I liked the silencer!



Then I invent another category that I collect - sub 1cc glowy things!

And especially for Fred - I never won a single CL competition - I didn't even better anyone in a single combat round but I enjoyed the contest. I tuned many Super Tigres  (couldn't afford one myself) in my early teens that won Free Flight contests and I won the school craft competition for my "BluePants".

Unlike some - I don't blame the engines - I built too heavy and didn't practice enough. I almost came second in an Inter Club stunt contest for under 16s. Unfortunately, I had the walk of shame - I used the Cubs PAW and it was a 19 not a 15 - I was disqualified!!!

I once entered a stunt contest and came last! When I was making the model I didn't have any piano wire so I went to my mothers wardrobe and "borrowed" one of her wire coat hangers. (I had done this before!) . I had practiced and practiced and after landing - straightened the undercarriage.

At the contest - both legs snapped on take off and the plane went tail heavy. I had used quite heavy solid rubber wheels! The plane was all over the place but I kept it together - no stunts - but it didn't survive the landing! It was only the last few inches of the flight that did all the damage. Still, I got a round of applause!
avatar
ian1954
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2425
Join date : 2011-11-16
Age : 64
Location : England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  fredvon4 on Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:31 pm


"At the contest - both legs snapped on take off and the plane went tail heavy. I had used quite heavy solid rubber wheels! The plane was all over the place but I kept it together - no stunts - but it didn't survive the landing! It was only the last few inches of the flight that did all the damage. Still, I got a round of applause!"

Ian cracks me up with this....mostly cuz I can totally relate, I can even see it perfectly---- and have heard that same apause

Big grin here in drizzly Texas


avatar
fredvon4
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Trusted Seller
Posts : 2509
Join date : 2011-08-26
Age : 63
Location : Lampasas Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  GWILLIEFOX on Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:43 pm

Ian,  I like the way you invent categories to collect.  When people ask what I collect I say Foxes and anything else of interest.  The last has far eclipsed my Fox collection.
 I collect 1.5cc  and close engines; I throw in .099s  Here's my Mamiya .09


I love the early throttles.  No one knew just exactly how to build a throttle so everything was tried.  Some favorites are the OS Pet venturi choke, the Fox 40 Baloney slicer, and the Enya 45 2 needle
the Pet

the Fox 40

the Enya 45


I love the twin plugs from the late 60s, early 70s, my Tono 10cc:


I love engines from different countries.  My Katipo from New Zealand:


I love Fox 35 similar engines.  My Burford Glo Chief:


I have developed a love of the "Pioneer" American engines from the 30's; my Ohlsson Gold Seal;


I love open Rocker 4 strokes; my Kalt 45 and Saito 30



I love diesels and miniatures: my ED Racer and mini racer .8cc


Oh, and not to forget my favorite little 1/2As:


I guess there aren't too many I don't like
avatar
GWILLIEFOX
Gold Member
Gold Member

Posts : 245
Join date : 2014-12-23
Location : Beaver Falls, PA

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  ian1954 on Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:00 pm

That is a very nice collection. I have managed to steer clear of sparkies and four strokes.

I have restored a Mamiya .09 - the drive plate had been chewed, the tank vent was missing and it was gummed up. When I returned it - the chap showed me a Mamiya 15, 29 and I think a 60. All pristine - he only collected pre 1950s.

It is easy to categorise a collection - for example, I have all the G-Marks, All the AEs but I have many engines that I have acquired that are just engines that I have and don't consider them as part of my collection.

I even collect engines that have "Wasp" in the name!

I don't collect Fox engines but I have seven Fox 09s in need of a backplate. I cannot pass up a bargain. They came with spare heads and one of them had a smashed crankcase. I don't think that from the description - sold for spare parts and the only picture was a broken Fox 09 that anyone realised it was for 7 engines. Neither did i - but in my spares box I had a Fox 09 crankcase. I then bought a singleton with a backplate and gasket but I still haven't gotten around to making the dies to press the back plates. Still on my list!!!!



These are still in one of my project boxes!

I like the concept of keeping an engine because you like the look of it though. My favourite Fox came along with a job lot of engines sold for parts. It was a mess and took some cleaning. It is also a very noisy engine. I think it is a 1974 36 RC Sport.



What I really like though is making engines.

Here are my Midges under construction.



Here is my 1cc (there or there abouts) Weaver





and, especially for GWILLEFOX, do you recognise this








avatar
ian1954
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2425
Join date : 2011-11-16
Age : 64
Location : England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:48 am

Wow, to the benefit of all and after months of trying I think I have finally coxed the true collectors here to vacate the closet and post pictures of their collections.  Like a kid in a candy store I relish every one.  

Even those among us that think these little marvels are just for flying have to respect the resolve and expense required to accumulate these collections.  My little worst of the worst collection pales in comparison.  

But I do have a Timex Enya-go-round...... Smile

Bob

Edit add:

Speaking of the worst of the worst....My latest acquisition.  Actually I bought it for the prop drive shaft to replace a missing one in one of my better sandcast .29's. I was the only bidder even at $25. Sad





Last edited by rsv1cox on Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:38 am; edited 2 times in total
avatar
rsv1cox
Top Poster
Top Poster

Posts : 3189
Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : West Virginia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  pkrankow on Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:56 am

I drool on the keyboard and fail to post to a lot of threads. Much history and much engineering in these, and many other, pictures.

Phil
avatar
pkrankow
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2967
Join date : 2012-10-02
Location : Ohio

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  GWILLIEFOX on Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:00 am

That looks very Waspish Ian. The wasp was my very first engine. I got it for Christmas in a Wen Mac Aeromite in 1953. More Aeromite stuff in another post.

If you can get a copy of the latest ECJ, I did an article on the Fox .09 and how Fox's final cache of spare 09 parts was probably used up to make the Hustler .10.
avatar
GWILLIEFOX
Gold Member
Gold Member

Posts : 245
Join date : 2014-12-23
Location : Beaver Falls, PA

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  ian1954 on Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:40 am

GWILLIEFOX wrote:That looks very Waspish Ian.  The wasp was my very first engine.  I got it for Christmas in a Wen Mac Aeromite in 1953.  More Aeromite stuff in another post.

If you can get a copy of the latest ECJ, I did an article on the Fox .09 and how Fox's final cache of spare 09 parts was probably used up to make the Hustler .10.

DC Wasp everything except the cylinder, contra piston, head and spinner. All homemade - the tommy bar came from my spares box but definitely not DC.

I only signed up for the ECJ this morning (before your posting)so I don't know if I will get this issue.
avatar
ian1954
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2425
Join date : 2011-11-16
Age : 64
Location : England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The engine comment debate!

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum