Run an .049 on steam?

Ah, a rail fan combining hobbies.  Ambitious project.  HO gauge I assume, but probably something larger if your including all the other equipment necessary for real steam.  

I modified this old Rivirossi HO 4-4-0 Genoa years ago by placing a pea lamp inside the headlight.  Not so ambitious.  

A .010 cylinder and glow head would look interesting in place of the smoke stack.





Good luck with your project.  

Bob

For train lowers there is the "Toys story" train episode with James May (from top gear).
The germans use sour craut to make ethanol/methanol and then feed that to a Norvel engine (!) to drive a generator that powers electric motors, just like a real train...  

Take a look here for instance (about 9 minutes in); https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xja5i0_james-may-s-great-train-race-2011-toy-stories-revisited_shortfilms

Thanks for the replies and ideas. Nice little Loco there!

My loco is 1" gauge, 1/24 scale. It is pretty ugly, supposed to be a logging locomotive made by a local shop in the woods. It will be wooden covered when it runs.
So, the CO2 engines are interesting, but I want to make a real steam valve, driven by the crank. After looking inside and outside of the .049, it appears that the flywheel mounted eccentric will be best. I will try to post some pics of the loco and the design I want to copy for the valving.

It appears that I can post images, so here is one. This is the status of the loco at the moment. I have a small steam engine out of a boat that I want to test the drive train with. If it can move itself, I can proceed with the .049 modification and testing. Once all that works, the boiler needs to be made functional. Right now it is just copper tubing with no fittings, not soldered yet.



The engine will sit in front of the boiler, just in front of where the driver is standing.

This drawing is from a plan I found on the 'net. It shows a slide valve driven by a crank mounted eccentric. The red bar is a bit of brass, turned to make a valve. I visualize the steam coming out the top of the valve assembly, through a u-shaped tube and into the top of the cylinder head. I hope...



I found this site while trying to learn how to remove the crankshaft just in case I need to. I found not only that, but a ton of interesting info. Thanks for letting me blabber about trains.

I just ordered a bunch of brass stock. Now I need to get my Unimat moved back into the house. Space, even for that little machine is an issue, but I need it to progress this.

Here is a mockup of what I have in mind. Legos to the rescue, a Lego wheel is mounted on the crank. I think I need a brass flywheel. It would have the eccentric on the inboard side and a pulley on the outboard side. Brass or aluminum standoffs would mount in the cylinder fins to hold the slide valve.

Trying to get my head around this, but I wonder if the original by-pass ports in the bottom of the cylinder may create some isses. Also, the cooling fins would hinder keeping the cylinder hot, bring on condensation earlier than you might want. I would suggest a solid brass cylinder in place of the original, to hold the heat as well as allow whatever porting configuration you may need.

I think the bypass ports won't be an issue, the steam should exhaust through the exhaust ports I think. I have been trying to work out how to insulate the cylinder. My hope is to make this with standard parts, adding only the valve and flywheel. If it works, it should be a nice little engine, readily available.
Hmmm... thinking about the cylinder, are they steel? I wonder if the fins could be removed in the lathe, leaving a nice shell. That could be used as-is or as a sleeve in a brass tube.
You have given me more to think about.

Maybe the finned area of the cylinder could be tightly wrapped with some insulating thread (In the old days we would've used asbestos). Maybe thick cotton yarn wrapped around each gap between the fins.

The cylinder and head fins can easily be machined down in lathe, but perhaps there should also be additional insulation, I have no idea.

The valve construction in the drawing is for a closed cylinder though. With the exhaust ports you would not need that elaborate valve as you will only need it for the intake.

Surfer_kris wrote:The cylinder and head fins can easily be machined down in lathe, but perhaps there should also be additional insulation, I have no idea.

The valve construction in the drawing is for a closed cylinder though. With the exhaust ports you would not need that elaborate valve as you will only need it for the intake.

That's a set up that could work. Only blowing steam into the plug hole:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGW3Y8fByVU



As a Cox engine is over square, you will need a flywheel with some weight to dampen the reciprocating movement and to get the piston to TDC again.

Good luck with the project!! I'm looking forward to seeing the final setup.

Lieven

That seems to be done with the same principle as in a CO2 engine?

This is a cool project , do you know how you are going to keep the boiler hot ? and is it going to go like the train on a track? Good luck with it

Ambitious project that I will follow

Some engineering design problems to be overcome in my mind

1. IMO there is no need for the weighty and added length of the tank and mount
2. I think the bypass ports could be beneficial for some of the steam to blow into the crankcase but I wonder what the boiler temp needs to be to steam off water mixed with Castor oil... the crankshaft must be lubed somehow
3. If the bypass passages open too soon and kill power they could be filled with J&B weld
4. If bypass is filled and the exhaust outlet is the only escape for the steam... need to vent the crankcase

OK just random thoughts but I think the use of the Cox Bee CC and piston cylinder can be used as the basis for steam power

After testing observed RPM will provide the needed data for final gearing

Thanks for all the ideas. Wrapping with string is a good idea, IMO. This will run on tracks and the boiler will be fired with (I hope) solid fuel tabs in a firebox below the boiler. There will be a 'fire jacket' around the boiler and a stack, hopefully that will concentrate the heat enough to make steam. This will never run for long periods, so I plan to oil the engine before a run. I may make some sort of in-line oiler if the thing proves to work at all.
My backup plan is to build an engine from scratch, but the challenge of this is what I want to try for now.
Oh, I think I can take the tank completely off and build a stand using the venturi plate as a mount. It is fairly thin and has the proper mounting holes already there.
And, yes, the valve needs to be simplified.

OVERLORD wrote:

That's a set up that could work. Only blowing steam into the plug hole:

As a Cox engine is over square, you will need a flywheel with some weight to dampen the reciprocating movement and to get the piston to TDC again.

Good luck with the project!! I'm looking forward to seeing the final setup.

Lieven

It is a shame that he never updated the video. He says he used a tire valve in the head. So, yes, it is like the 'normal' CO2 engine. Thanks for the link.

Good questions Fred ... Ken sounds like a plan with the fired system . // Just wondering ?!?!?? they had the engine running without a tank on steam in the Vid. (( if you put the tank on and had the right Weight oil in it to supply the needed lube through the reed )) would that work?? or is it just not going to have vacuum in the CC were you could adjust the needle valve / I don't know S about steam engine tech.s

Surfer_kris wrote:That seems to be done with the same principle as in a CO2 engine?

Somewhere or other I have seen a video of a Cox running on compressed air with absolutely no valving, just by feeding the air in through the top of the head. The large flywheel is enough to "compress" the air on the upstroke and carry it over TDC. It would be inefficient, with much of the energy wasted on the upstroke. It would be a fine balance between flywheel size and air pressure to allow it over TDC. Still, it's probably a simple place to start, just to see what it will do.

I too wondered about the oil in the tank thing. I believe that issue as well as 'compressing air' will be a killer. The steam guys have already told me that my boiler won't cut it. We will see. The whole thing will be marginal, but a fun exercise anyway.

Does a Cox flywheel replace the prop driving part (with the splines in it) or what? That is called a 'drive plate' right?

thats how i tried to build a steam powered babe bee in jr. high, drilled out stem of glowhead same OD as copper fuel line and flared the inside in. perfect brand wedge tank for boiler, but never use a fly wheel, didn't know about that stuff...might of worked?

it would be easier/simpler to bolt the flywheel to backplate.

Mark, I am not sure what you mean about the flywheel.

Do you still have the engine you modified?

Nevadablue wrote:Mark, I am not sure what you mean about the flywheel.

Do you still have the engine you modified?

sorry you had said: Does a Cox flywheel replace the prop driving part (with the splines in it) or what? That is called a 'drive plate' right?

and i miss read it and said: it would be easier/simpler to bolt the flywheel to backplate.

As far as the flywheel goes, i've seen both, most are attached with screw.

lol, no thats long gone...