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On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  Kim on Wed May 08, 2013 6:53 pm

Yeah, it's great place to work, and we get to deal with some cool stuff!

You never EVER go to the airport without a camera !

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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  RknRusty on Wed May 08, 2013 8:00 pm

Thanks for the engine diagrams. The bottom one illustrates it with the most clarity. Lots more dependable than a chain and sprocket, and less trouble with lash and fatigue than would be with a simple edge to edge configuration(forgive me, I'm at a loss for the proper term).
Is that an odd firing order on that bottom engine?

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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  OVERLORD on Thu May 09, 2013 1:47 am

I think you mean gears in cascade as in the early Peugeot and Miller engines.



Indeed, the Bugatti type 37 engine has a firing order 1243. But how can you see that on the drawing? Huh...

Lieven
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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  navion34 on Thu May 09, 2013 6:00 am

Some other engine ahve the same order 1-2-4-3, the Ford Pre-Xflow, Ford Xflow...
Nice pictures Lieven,
Beer Cheers
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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  RknRusty on Thu May 09, 2013 8:08 am

OVERLORD wrote:I think you mean gears in cascade as in the early Peugeot and Miller engines.



Indeed, the Bugatti type 37 engine has a firing order 1243. But how can you see that on the drawing? Huh...

Lieven
That's exactly what I mean. With that arrangement, as the gear teeth wear, the cumulative lash between the gears adds up fast causing slop in the valve timing. If that's in an aircraft engine I expect they might have to replace the gears pretty frequently as regular maintenance. With the shaft drive I would expect it to be more dependable. Or if the gear cover is easily accessible, a quick easy job.
Maybe 6 of 1,or 1/2 dozen of the other.(is that expression understood in French?)

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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  OVERLORD on Fri May 10, 2013 11:58 am

I didn't understand the expression right away but the www helped me out. It is a beautiful arrangement indeed but I think the cascade of gears was less expensive to manufacture: a few straight cut gears only instead of a shaft, extra ball bearings and bevel gears to drive cam, magnétos + waterpump most of the time. The geardrive took less space in the engine block as well.
After the war, the use of inline engines became a lot less, I think, in commercial and military aircraft due to the upcoming jet engine and also due to the radial engine with lots of power.

The inline Renault Bengali and De Havilland Gipsy Major engines, both air cooled inverted inline engines in the style of the Ranger, had lateral camshafts. A Gipsy engine can be seen in the yellow Chipmunk on the previous page.




The radial engine's cam drive was also very straightforward:



In mass produced car engines, overhead cams were driven by chains as in the Jaguar XK. In 1966, Fiat was first in using a rubber toothed belt on the twin cam Lampredi engine of the Fiat 124 Spider.

More oddities exist though. The Bentley 6.5L and 8L engines had an overhead camshaft driven by 3 connecting rods mounted between a reduction on the crankshaft near the flywheel and the aft end of the cam. The conrods sort of pulled the cam around. When Bentley was bought by RR in 1931, W.O. Bentley left and moved to Lagonda where he designed in the late 30's the 4.5L V12 engine. This engine had 3 chains, I believe, to drive both overhead cams. I worked on a few of those engines. The day you start overhauling one, you wish you stayed in bed that morning.

Here is 1 more picture showing the level of engineering nearly 100 years ago: 1918 De Dion Bouton aero engine in W, 16 cyl, 4 banks with overhead cam and shaft drive. Have a look at the 4 magnetos with double ignition. What a pain to fix those spark plug leads!

Lieven



If I wrote some nonsense, Please correct me.
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Snoopy 2 !!!!!

Post  Kim on Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:57 pm

SNOOPY !!!!




Actually "Snoopy 2", one of Met-Life's blimps, dropped in for a quick visit and refuel today!!!!

According to my boss, he's heading for Alton, Illinois.












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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  GUS THE I.A. on Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:11 pm

That's neat! I like seeing neat stuff show up at the airport. I'm glad that you think enough to put it here, for us! Thanks!
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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  Kim on Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:30 pm

GUS THE I.A. wrote:That's neat! I like seeing neat stuff show up at the airport. I'm glad that you think enough to put it here, for us! Thanks!

You're welcome Gus !!!!!!!!!! Just sharing the fun!
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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  coxaddicted on Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:14 am

Cool Kim!

We have altough a zeppelin stationated nearby, it has ,,Fuji Film'' letterings.
I am allways impressed when it is flying around here.
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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  dinsdale on Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:38 am

With respect to different cam drives, until recent years all Ducati motorcycle engines had shaft drive to their OHC. In fact the racing Dukes had triple overhead cams. If these things interest you, check out Duke's "desmodromic" valves. All of their engines are still desmo. Also, until recent years all MV Agusta motorcycles had the "gear tower" drive to their OHCs. Not in any way suggesting that these 2 were first, but just demonstrating that even now these things are not all that uncommon. I've owned quite a few Dukes over the years, and an MV Agusta too. Btw, the Kawasaki W800 (a current model) has shaft rive to the OHC.
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Ryan ST-3 !

Post  Kim on Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:08 pm

Even MORE great stuff from this Living Air Museum where I work!

Gentlemen, allow me to present, a Ryan ST-3 !!!!

It's actually a conversion from the radial engined PT-22 which was powered by a Kinner.









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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  RknRusty on Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:22 pm

Wow, what a beauty! I wanna ride in that.

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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  Kim on Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:31 pm

RknRusty wrote:Wow, what a beauty! I wanna ride in that.

Me too! Same engine as the PT-19...and 3/4 of the air-frame !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  Cribbs74 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:39 pm

Oh my, now why doesn't cool stuff like that ever land on an AFB. What a beautiful machine!

Ron

P.S are they hiring any Navaids techs?
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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  Kim on Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:54 pm

cribbs74 wrote:Oh my, now why doesn't cool stuff like that ever land on an AFB. What a beautiful machine!

Ron

P.S are they hiring any Navaids techs?

Don't know...but I could give you the airport managers number....figure that's an FAA assignment thing though....
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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  Cribbs74 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:53 pm

Kim wrote:
cribbs74 wrote:Oh my, now why doesn't cool stuff like that ever land on an AFB. What a beautiful machine!

Ron

P.S are they hiring any Navaids techs?

Don't know...but I could give you the airport managers number....figure that's an FAA assignment thing though....

I work at the MMAC. So FAA contacts shouldn't be too hard. Wink

I was being kind of tongue in cheek as I have 2 more years until I can retire.

Ron
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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  OVERLORD on Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:05 am

Hello Kim,

That is a nice Ryan. Before the Kinners, they were Menasco powered. Here's a Ryan advert I found on the web:



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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  Kim on Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:16 am

Thanks Lieven!

I actually owned one of the Cox ST-3's, in that exact color scheme.  It was the first throttled engine I'd ever encountered, and it was great fun being able to taxi, takeoff, and land at will.  The wheels were so small though, that my ballfield runway wouldn't work, so I flew it from the widest section of pavement on the main street of the small town where I lived.

Still watching for a flyable one to turn up on Ebay!
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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  WingingIt74 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:38 am

cribbs74 wrote:Oh my, now why doesn't cool stuff like that ever land on an AFB.

They haven't been in service for awhile??? lol!
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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  Kim on Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:38 am

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Cape Girardeau Regional Air Festival !!!! June 28-29 11111

Post  Kim on Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:36 pm

There will be LOTS of cool stuff on the ramp !!!!

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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  WingingIt74 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:39 pm

Kim wrote:There will be LOTS of cool stuff on the ramp !!!!


OH sure.... and I'll be on vacation headed to South Carolina....
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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

Post  coxaddicted on Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:07 pm

Kim, maybe you could do me a favour. If possible, take some close ups of the ,,fresco,, Smile
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Re: On the Ramp Right Now: The Pietenpol Reunion at Brodhead, Wisconsin

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