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MauricioB's

"Cox Tee Dee .010"



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What is the average life of a glow plug?

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What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  MauricioB on Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:15 pm

These photos that I leave here, corresponds to my Tee Dee 051, many months that I use and it works, but when looking at it with a magnifying glass, the resistance is seen as peeling, this is part of the metal ?, what happens there? It is normal? Is it due to a glow plug already used ?, time to change it or can be washed?







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Re: What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  Cribbs74 on Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:25 pm

A Cox glow plug can last a really long time, if your fuel is of good quality and your compression optimum.

I think what you are seeing is a buildup of ash. This is usually seen when using old or contaminated fuel. It can be cleaned.

If you start to have hard starts and RPM loss when the battery is removed then it's very likely the platinum coating is degrading.

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Re: What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  MauricioB on Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:30 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:A Cox glow plug can last a really long time, if your fuel is of good quality and your compression optimum.

I think what you are seeing is a buildup of ash. This is usually seen when using old or contaminated fuel. It can be cleaned.

If you start to have hard starts and RPM loss when the battery is removed then it's very likely the platinum coating is degrading.


It is likely that the fuel components will not be of the best quality as they purchase the products separately, ie oil, nitromethane and methanol. Here in my country is prohibited the sale of pure methanol, what is achieved is methanol but with some additive not to sell it pure.
Thanks for answering me !, tell me how I can clean the beard? With which liquid and / or method ?, thanks!
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Re: What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  rsv1cox on Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:28 am

What is the average life of a glow plug?

Not long if you mistakenly plug the glow clip into the 12 volt connections on your power panel instead of the 1.2 volt connections. Sad

Bob
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Re: What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  getback on Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:08 am

you is right Bob i blew 3 before i realized i had plunged into the starter side of the pane!! ? I use a tooth brush lightly with alcohol. Babe Bee .049 to clean .
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Re: What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  MauricioB on Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:45 am

Well boys, here I show that I made the attempts to clean the filament of the candle.
Use an airbrush at 30 bars of pressure and 80 bars of pressure, with thinner, the result is that the ash-like residues disappeared, but what is observed in the photo is the degradation of the filament, that is, that the filament itself has Gone deteriorating, still works, but it does not pay any more. I am now taking accounts to see if I can deduce how much time I used and thus have a data to be able to compare perhaps with your experiences.


After firing with thinner and airbrush, thus turns on:


And here you can see that the filament is deteriorated, it is not ash or residue, simply the filament is rotten ... but still works, but not with good performance.
Time to change the Glow Plug!




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Re: What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  MauricioB on Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:51 am

rsv1cox wrote:What is the average life of a glow plug?

Not long if you mistakenly plug the glow clip into the 12 volt connections on your power panel instead of the 1.2 volt connections.  Sad

Bob

In that case you can use it to take a picture if you do not have a flash !!!
Hahaha Very Happy Thumbs Up
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Re: What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  Kim on Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:28 am

OH man...been there TOO many times !
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Re: What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  Mark Boesen on Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:31 am

rsv1cox wrote:What is the average life of a glow plug?

Not long if you mistakenly plug the glow clip into the 12 volt connections on your power panel instead of the 1.2 volt connections.  Sad

Bob


(lol) ....jeez, i've never done that! : ^(...
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Re: What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  rsv1cox on Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:44 am

Mark Boesen wrote:
rsv1cox wrote:What is the average life of a glow plug?

Not long if you mistakenly plug the glow clip into the 12 volt connections on your power panel instead of the 1.2 volt connections.  Sad

Bob


(lol) ....jeez, i've never done that! : ^(...

Misery loves company and I'm really enjoying this company. Smile I thought I was the only one. Smile

I'm embarrassed to say that I beat Eric's record. I went though four used ones removing them from engines in the shop, then headed into the house to get a new one before discovering my mistake. Sad

I blamed the first one on the fact that I did not turn down the rheostat on the panel before attaching the connector. I saw and heard it pop actually moving the propeller. Darn I thought, that was a great plug...then followed 2,3, and 4. I was attempting to start the Enya .19 on Kim's plane that I had so much trouble with before.



Finally with much fear I got it started and warmed up but it ran out of gas as I was taxing it out of the garage for some testing.





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Re: What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  Forgetful John on Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:47 pm

For sure I have confused the outlets on the power panel!

I heard it pop through the top end when I plugged it in wrong, but it did not spin the crank any.  

OK, 'nuff said.
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Re: What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  RknRusty on Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:15 pm

That ash might be corroded platinum, meaning the battery will cause the coil to incandesce brightly but methanol may not. Thus, reduced performance. Too much silicon anti-foam agent can cause this sort of malady. I had a batch of Sig fuel back in 2012 or so that I blamed for ruining every plug I had, turning them snow white. Some sort of impurity that you may never pin down.
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Re: What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  MauricioB on Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:48 pm

RknRusty wrote:That ash might be corroded platinum, meaning the battery will cause the coil to incandesce brightly but methanol may not. Thus, reduced performance. Too much silicon anti-foam agent can cause this sort of malady. I had a batch of Sig fuel back in 2012 or so that I blamed for ruining every plug I had, turning them snow white. Some sort of impurity that you may never pin down.
Rusty

Thanks Rusty for your information, believe me that I am learning a lot from the experience of all of you. In my club, I had never seen such small models fly, and I am the first in 30 years to fly a Cox .010 R / C, passing through 020 and up to Cox .15, many friends and colleagues are left with the Mouth open to see how they work, you almost can not believe !.
Many years ago here in my region, a Cox engine was only related to a model for circular flight and many people here say that they are complicated engines. Certainly the lack of information and lack of experience is the key to the success of being able to fully enjoy these small wonders!
I am sincerely very grateful to all of you since Tonny invited me to participate in this forum, because I have learned and I continue to learn a lot and from this side everything I can share with you is for me a real pleasure.
Here we have to take care of Cox parts, because it is not easy to get spare parts and also complicated that they arrive from the US in a fast time, but still I try that nothing deteriorates although at times as is the case of the glow plugs, there is no remedy They change ..... and wait to receive the replacement in time!
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Re: What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  roddie on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:53 pm

Hi Mauricio! I have many Cox .049 glow-heads that are VERY old (30, 40 and possibly 50 years old..) They still work, but I'm unsure how many hours of use any of them have had. Many of them were in my family for years.

I haven't had many Cox glowheads fail. I have a few that have the old "W"-filament design.

Here's some photos of them..





I've never run them.. so I don't know how they perform. I believe that the conventional "coil-design" is more efficient.

Here's how I "keep" my standard .049 glowheads..




Smile .. I apologize that this doesn't give you answers for your question. I can tell you that I have always ran high-nitro fuel in my engines.. (25-35%) When genuine "Cox" fuel became unavailable, I switched to the "Sig" brand.

Do you filter your fuel? It would be smart to filter it.. because of what you mentioned about the way that it's formulated. It may be subject to some contamination if the person/people who mix it aren't careful and clean with the components. Be sure to keep/store your fuel away from sunlight.. and sealed tight.

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Re: What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  TDbandit on Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:00 pm

All the info here is great advice. Glow Head/Plug life is dependent on three major factors, Weather/environment, How it is run/setup and Fuel quality and Roddie hit it on two major things Keeping fuel filtered and Keeping it out of direct sunlight, Sunlight kills nitro fast so it's best to keep it covered or in shade while out at the field or store it in a fuel can. The Environment (dusty conditions) can shorten life due to fine debris entering the engine which can wreck havoc on plugs, Weather effects Needle settings and a sudden weather change such as a coming storm or drop or increase in temp can cause an engine to go from perfectly set to a screaming lean run or sloppy rich in a blink of an eye which can blow plugs in itself. Running an engine rich while it doesn't hurt the engine, it can coat the plug with carbon especially if you run high castor. Fuel quality as stated has a big influence especially poor quality methanol Methanol is the catlist which reacts with the platinum element that keeps it glowing hot and poor methanol or methanol that has soaked up some water can reduce the reaction with the element as well degrade it. Engine setup is also important (ie) compression ratio, exhaust and matching the proper plug to the setup you are running is also a big factor. I've had plugs last me for years and I've killed my share of plugs too with a few that tried their very best to imitate a flash cube (power panel blunder) YUP I did it too! My best head nuke not only blinked brightly through the exhaust slit but almost sounded like a lady finger firecracker lol. Anyway hope this helps man take care (Bandit)
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Re: What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  MauricioB on Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:36 am

roddie wrote:Hi Mauricio! I have many Cox .049 glow-heads that are VERY old (30, 40 and possibly 50 years old..) They still work, but I'm unsure how many hours of use any of them have had. Many of them were in my family for years.

I haven't had many Cox glowheads fail. I have a few that have the old "W"-filament design.

Here's some photos of them..





I've never run them.. so I don't know how they perform. I believe that the conventional "coil-design" is more efficient.

Here's how I "keep" my standard .049 glowheads..




Smile .. I apologize that this doesn't give you answers for your question. I can tell you that I have always ran high-nitro fuel in my engines.. (25-35%) When genuine "Cox" fuel became unavailable, I switched to the "Sig" brand.

Do you filter your fuel? It would be smart to filter it.. because of what you mentioned about the way that it's formulated. It may be subject to some contamination if the person/people who mix it aren't careful and clean with the components. Be sure to keep/store your fuel away from sunlight.. and sealed tight.


Roodie good to read you again! .... I have a Furi 049 engine that has that type of glow plug "W", I take care of it infinitely, I start this engine only from time to time since I do not have a spare glow plug! ! I would not want to waste it or damage it!

Regarding the points you mention, I detail them as follows:
1) Yes, the fuel filters it before loading to the tank of the model.
When preparing the fuel, filter the methanol.
Do not filter nitromethane or oil. These are filtered once the fuel is ready and loaded into the tank of the model.
2) If the fuel is in a separate part, away from the light.
3) This each container is hermetically sealed.

Thanks Roodie for the photos and the comment, it is very useful all expressed !, it engages a big hug!



Last edited by MauricioB on Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  MauricioB on Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:50 am

TDbandit wrote:All the info here is great advice. Glow Head/Plug life is dependent on three major factors, Weather/environment, How it is run/setup and Fuel quality and Roddie hit it on two major things Keeping fuel filtered and Keeping it out of direct sunlight, Sunlight kills nitro fast so it's best to keep it covered or in shade while out at the field or store it in a fuel can. The Environment (dusty conditions) can shorten life due to fine debris entering the engine which can wreck havoc on plugs, Weather effects Needle settings and a sudden weather change such as a coming storm or drop or increase in temp can cause an engine to go from perfectly set to a screaming lean run or sloppy rich in a blink of an eye which can blow plugs in itself. Running an engine rich while it doesn't hurt the engine, it can coat the plug with carbon especially if you run high castor. Fuel quality as stated has a big influence especially poor quality methanol Methanol is the catlist which reacts with the platinum element that keeps it glowing hot and poor methanol or methanol that has soaked up some water can reduce the reaction with the element as well degrade it. Engine setup is also important (ie) compression ratio, exhaust and matching the proper plug to the setup you are running is also a big factor. I've had plugs last me for years and I've killed my share of plugs too with a few that tried their very best to imitate a flash cube (power panel blunder) YUP I did it too! My best head nuke not only blinked brightly through the exhaust slit but almost sounded like a lady finger firecracker lol. Anyway hope this helps man take care (Bandit)  

Hello Bandit
Taking into account all your comment, I deduce or summarize that the problem that I can have here, is the quality of methanol, since I can not check or check their quality or level of purity. I am referring to chemical purity, not by residues, since I filter this if I suspect its quality.
I think a lot has to do with this component here.
Regarding the power supply to heat the filament, I DO NOT USE power panel, just to avoid any accidental error, I use 4 batteries of 1.2 volts connected in parallel and of 1800 mah each, in this way can never the battery spoil the glow plug .
Thank you also for contributing your experience... regards!! Thumbs Up
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Re: What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  GallopingGhostler on Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:42 am

MauricioB wrote:These photos that I leave here, corresponds to my Tee Dee 051, many months that I use and it works, but when looking at it with a magnifying glass, the resistance is seen as peeling, this is part of the metal ?, what happens there? It is normal? Is it due to a glow plug already used ?, time to change it or can be washed?

AFAIK, the nichrome wire glow element has a thin coating of expensive platinum metal, which is the catalyst for glow ignition. Once the platinum coating erodes or degrades sufficiently, catalytic action diminishes. The older Swanson Associates Fireball hot glow plugs I obtained in the late 1970's seemed to last a while. Then I obtained a dozen NOS on card about 5 years ago, that only lasted a season. Year later after winter non-fly, they would not fire. I read somewhere that Swanson ran into problems with a supplier and poor quality platinum coated nichrome wire.

An older Enya 30 plug that came with an old, dirty, rusty but not abused hardly used Enya .09-III TV (the 1967 left hand exhaust version acquired around 6 years ago) still fires.

that flaking off your worn glow plug element may be the platinum coating degrading, IMO.

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Re: What is the average life of a glow plug?

Post  fredvon4 on Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:05 am

Average life question... too many variables

I have glow plugs that have NEVER been changed in 10 years but I only fly or run those engines infrequently

not all glow elements are the same and each major maker has a proprietary formula (spec) for the element wire

I found it interesting that Enya had/has a BUY BACK program...making me assume their wire is solid, and not plated ---- worth reclaiming

Platinum is NOT the only catalyst of Methanol element... I think Rhodium and a few others work. I seem to recall a magazine article back in the 70s discussing the different mixes and platings used to catalyze Methanol

Thinking back of all the various glow plugs I did snuff...most were over compression, some were high volt (Rarely) and I suspect a few were just plain contaminated fuel

Like a few here, I have some of the very old original Cox glow heads that are easily over 40 years old and still work...but I have no logbook* data to say how many hours or starts any one glow head/plug lasted

*Funny---- I have never kept a logbook for any model airplane or engine...but I have reams of daily-----/trip/fuel/repair ----logbook data, for every car I ever owned since 1972

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