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How to breake in a RC flyer engine

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How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  R4min on Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:51 pm

Hi, can someone tell me how to breake in a rc flyer engine, is it like wot and maximize the fuel needle?
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  Mark Boesen on Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:52 pm

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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  Surfer_kris on Mon May 01, 2017 8:44 am

That link is only for a ringed engine. There are mainly three types of engines and one has to run them in dependent on the engine construction;
- ringed engines
- lapped engines
- ABC and ABN technology

The two last ones are well described here;
Running-in ABC engines
Running in lapped engines
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  Mark Boesen on Mon May 01, 2017 11:26 am

oops, lol, i never read it completely and you're right different engines require different break-in. The good news is breaking an engine in is not rocket science as most modern engines will break in fairly quick.
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  NEW222 on Mon May 01, 2017 6:25 pm

Here is both a review and sort-of instructions that will work for you. Very good read.

http://www.flyrc.com/cox-049-glow-engines/
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  R4min on Tue May 02, 2017 5:54 am

Ok thx for all the replays, I think I've got it Smile
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  R4min on Tue May 02, 2017 6:05 am

By the way NEW222, it doesn't say how much the throttle should be open :
"To break in the engines, I mounted them to the test stand, and first ran them very rich in short duration runs. Allowing cooling between runs is critical. Once several tanks of fuel have been burned, you can start to lean out the needle valve and let the engine turn up"
Is it going to be at WOT?
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  NEW222 on Tue May 02, 2017 6:46 am

I would say yep. Full throttle as all other Cox Engines run wide open.
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  gcb on Tue May 02, 2017 7:21 am

When we think of break-in we usually think of the piston/cylinder fit, but remember we should also break-in the lower connecting-rod bearing, the thrust bearing, and if not BB, the crankshaft bearing. These, ideally, should be broken-in fast so the rotation will have them riding on a film of lubricant. The faster the rotation, the thicker the film. These parts only take a couple of minutes to smooth the fits so after the first run they are essentially broken-in.

For an ABC engine I like to run it up to just the rich side of peak for the first couple of minutes. This expands the cylinder and imposes a lighter load on the rotating parts.

Other ways to "lighten the load" during break-in are to add extra lube to your fuel and use a smaller prop.

Of course for diesels, kerosene is a lubricant and helps lube during break-in.

Many years ago (in the fifties) the CL and FF guys used to argue as to whether break-in was necessary. The CL guys said yes but some FF guys would lite-off a new engine (in a ship) adjust for peak and let fly. The engine would cut out (via timer) and the ship would glide. By the time it came down it had completed one heat cycle...so both were correct.

George
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  Surfer_kris on Tue May 02, 2017 11:09 am

R4min wrote:By the way NEW222, it doesn't say how much the throttle should be open :
"To break in the engines, I mounted them to the test stand, and first ran them very rich in short duration runs. Allowing cooling between runs is critical. Once several tanks of fuel have been burned, you can start to lean out the needle valve and let the engine turn up"
Is it going to be at WOT?

You just need to continue reading...

Quote:
Running the Sure-Start (broken in with the throttle open fully) was done similarly. However, I just ran the Cox black 5×3 propeller, and Wildcat 25-percent fuel.

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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  R4min on Tue May 02, 2017 5:22 pm

NEW222, ok thank you:)

Surfer Kris, yes you are right:)

George: for breaking in the ABC engine I've got instruction from Just engine U.K. That the first tank should be run with throttle 1/5 open and the next tank at half throttle and then WOT, I was surprised because others are saying to run at WOT at once and keep it in 2 stroke just in edge of 4 stroke, because the sylinder is smaller at the top and needs the working temperature to open up, I am not sure wich way to trust, in one hand the just engine must know the right way to breaking in the ABC engine, in the other hand it's the sylinder wich needs to be widen up, do you have eny idea? Describe how you would breake in a ABC engine?
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  gcb on Tue May 02, 2017 7:13 pm

R4min wrote: NEW222] George: for breaking in the ABC engine I've got instruction from Just engine U.K. That the first tank should be run with throttle 1/5 open and the next tank at half throttle and then WOT, I was surprised because others are saying to run at WOT at once and keep it in 2 stroke just in edge of 4 stroke, because the sylinder is smaller at the top and needs the working temperature to open up, I am not sure wich way to trust, in one hand the just engine must know the right way to breaking in the ABC engine, in the other hand it's the sylinder wich needs to be widen up, do you have eny idea? Describe how you would breake in a ABC engine?
 
The process I referred to was from info George Aldrich posted years ago for ABC racing engines. For those engines a slow wet break-in would yield a loose lower end and a piston/cylinder fit that might never reach full potential.
Since modern engines are mostly ABN or some other plating, and the high silicon aluminum pistons are not all the same, my suggestion would be to follow the manufacturer's instructions...including prop and fuel mix.

George
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  R4min on Fri May 05, 2017 1:34 pm

Will do that, thank you NEW222
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  Surfer_kris on Fri May 05, 2017 3:14 pm

Which engine do you have?
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  getback on Fri May 05, 2017 7:21 pm

Excellent advice for the breakin George , with most i just run them up to a flutter , and cycle Babe Bee .049 a few time then let UR rip!!
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  R4min on Sat May 06, 2017 3:50 pm

Surfer_kris wrote:Which engine do you have?

I have the cox rc flyer and ASP 25 Surfer kris
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  Surfer_kris on Sun May 07, 2017 1:03 am

Okey, I had never heard "RC flyer" before as it is not a model from Cox. It seems to be a Sure Start with a choke valve? In that case just leave the choke valve wide open, or simply remove it for running-in. The valve only acts a s a cold start valve on a regular engine.

The Cox engines use a lapped technology (but not with a meehanite piston), where the piston is matched to the cylinder in terms of size in order to get a perfect match. They should be run-in a little rich the first few starts and then you can lean them out a little by little. Never run them too lean though, they should always be a little on the rich side. That way they will not run too lean in the air.

The ASP is made with ABC technology. The have a pinch at TDC which you can feel clearly in a new engine. This pinch is very important for the function of the engine, as it ensure a proper fit once the parts have heated up. Do read the links provided earlier, although lengthy they are correct and they provide a motivation for each style of running in dependent on the engine at hand.
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  R4min on Mon May 08, 2017 5:58 pm

Surfer_kris wrote:Okey, I had never heard "RC flyer" before as it is not a model from Cox. It seems to be a Sure Start with a choke valve? In that case just leave the choke valve wide open, or simply remove it for running-in. The valve only acts a s a cold start valve on a regular engine.

The Cox engines use a lapped technology (but not with a meehanite piston), where the piston is matched to the cylinder in terms of size in order to get a perfect match. They should be run-in a little rich the first few starts and then you can lean them out a little by little. Never run them too lean though, they should always be a little on the rich side. That way they will not run too lean in the air.

The ASP is made with ABC technology. The have a pinch at TDC which you can feel clearly in a new engine. This pinch is very important for the function of the engine, as it ensure a proper fit once the parts have heated up. Do read the links provided earlier, although lengthy they are correct and they provide a motivation for each style of running in dependent on the engine at hand.

It is this one except that the rc flyer is red https://coxengines.ca/cox-.049-rc-cruiser-engine.html

I think they are not produced eny Moore, the only different is the color

On the ASP you mean I should not follow the instruction provided from Just engine U.K.?


Last edited by R4min on Mon May 08, 2017 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added Moore info)
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  Surfer_kris on Tue May 09, 2017 1:21 am

I would never run a brand new ABC engine at 1/5 throttle for a whole tank...

If you read the links you'll understand why. The cylinder needs heat in order to expand, if you run it too cold the piston will adapt to a too narrow cylinder. You don't need to run at absolute full throttle, but somewhere around 50-80% and use the needle to adjust the rpm and temperature. When the engine gets warm it can handle a richer needle setting without dropping out of two-stroke mode, that is a good point to run it in at. I.e. you first need to lean the needle to get it into a clean two-stroke, but if you keep the needle there it might be too lean as the engine heats up, so you richen it a little again. So a fairly open throttle while altering the needle setting so how the engine is reacting, is a good way to do it.

The ASP is true ABC, but it is not as critical as some of the high end competition engines. So don't worry too much about it, just try to avoid running it too cold or too hot. You can vary the throttle too if you want during the run, in order to ensure that it is not running for a full tank at one exact setting that might not be a very good one anyway.
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  R4min on Wed May 10, 2017 3:13 pm

Surfer kris, if i find the max rpm by leaning out the needle first, from there how many rpm should be dropped to be acceptable, let's say if max rpm is 10 000, is it enough to lower it by needle to 9700? Or 8500? Is it possible to give its number or procent?
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  Surfer_kris on Wed May 10, 2017 3:20 pm

Do try to find the maximum rpm, that will be too lean for a new engine.

You don't need to tach the engine, it is much better to listen to how it behaves. So simply approach it from the rich side and you will hear when it gets into a clean two-stroke. Once there the engine heats up and you can now turn the needle richer again (a few clicks usually, maybe even a quarter of a turn), but don't go all the way into a full four stroke (if you are referring to the ABC engine)
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  R4min on Wed May 10, 2017 3:40 pm

Yes referring to the ABC engine
If i only knew the different between the four stroking and two stroking sounds like, is there a video on YouTube you know where an engine is four stroking and two stroking?
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  Marleysky on Wed May 10, 2017 3:50 pm

R4min wrote:Yes referring to the ABC engine
If i only knew the different between the four stroking and two stroking sounds like, is there a video on YouTube you know where an engine is four stroking and two stroking?

Here ya go......Master Rusty created a prefect two/ four video here for us all to enjoy:


https://www.coxengineforum.com/t10835-what-s-difference-max-35-and-max-s-35#136786
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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  Surfer_kris on Wed May 10, 2017 3:56 pm

It is pretty obvious from the sound, the term four stroking just means that it misses a little and doesn't fire well each time.

The internet and youtube is full of young "experts" trying to teach others, and many of them are failing...

Below is a video (not mine) that can illustrate the sound. The engine is started rich initially and is then leaned out. It is just breaking in, and out, of the two stroke mode about where the power to the glow-plug is removed. That is the position that you want to find. When you run in an engine you can go in and out of that point by using the main needle.

He is trying to find that very peak rpm, and he then goes too lean and the engine sags in the end...
You don't want to do that, and there is about half a turn on the needle (depending on the engine of coarse) between just getting into a clean two-stroke mode and running it too lean.

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Re: How to breake in a RC flyer engine

Post  R4min on Wed May 10, 2017 4:38 pm

Nice Surfer kris, i have been looking at YouTube and searched for "breaking in ABC engine" and found some videos about that, how ever it did not helped me understand the different between two and four stroking, now that you explained it, it is cleare, thank you for the video Very Happy
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