Cox Engines Forum
You are not logged in! Please login or register! Guests are limited to posting in the "General Questions (Guest Posting Allowed)" section only. Becoming a member is fast, easy and FREE!


Log in

I forgot my password

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Cox Engine of The Month
July-2017
Mark Boesen's

Nice original Babe Bee from a Super Cub 105, late fifties.



PAST WINNERS
CEF Traveling Engine

Tach Race 2017 Updates
Ready for Tach Race 2017?
Profile Scale Reed Speed
Gallery


Win This Engine!
The Traveling Prop
World of Aviation

Engine AP 0.061

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Engine AP 0.061

Post  MauricioB on Mon May 15, 2017 3:00 am

I bought this engine online. I like their appearance and it is certainly a copy of Norvel, although I do not really know their quality and performance.
If someone knows and has experience with this engine, you could leave me your opinions to keep in mind.
Thanks greetings.



avatar
MauricioB
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Posts : 780
Join date : 2016-02-16
Age : 46

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine AP 0.061

Post  Ken Cook on Mon May 15, 2017 4:21 am

I used the AP extensively in 1/2A combat or at least tried to. The AP comes equipped with a bronze bushing for the crank main. I found that to readily wear out and many others experienced that as well. I used a Cox venturi and spraybar by making a aluminum adapter to fit the case. I could use the stock venturi for sport flying or Kustom Kraftmanship to run on bladder. This also enabled me to switch to different sized venturi openings if I felt the need. My initial finding discovered that the aluminum head shim is useless and needs to be replaced with a copper Cox version. The AP plugs work well but are extremely short lived. My engine was taking out plugs furiously. I kept adding head shims and this was present for quite a few runs. I felt the piston liner fit to be rather excessive and the underside of my head appeared to look like someone glass beaded it which represents over compression or metal particles are striking it.

        The AP never made the same or equal to rpm's that the Norvel would get. I ended up lapping in the piston slightly which helped with starting but the crank developed a lot of play. I installed a new bushing in the case. My experiments noted that this engine wouldn't suit the need for 1/2A combat . It would work great for sport use. The r/c crowd mentioned the numerous air leaks in and around the stock carb. I paid $25 for the engine when Hobby People offered it and I purchased 2 of them. They offered little to no parts support and Tower Hobbies quickly discontinued the engine offering no more than plugs and prop nuts. I conclude that it can be a fun engine to use just don't expect the same offerings of a Norvel.
avatar
Ken Cook
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2706
Join date : 2012-03-27
Location : pennsylvania

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine AP 0.061

Post  MauricioB on Mon May 15, 2017 5:20 am

Ken
Very interesting all this data. I will consider every item you mention when starting my engine.
These photos that I share with you - You, correspond to an AP061 of a colleague, who gave me the shirt - cylinder and piston so that I could personally observe the damage suffered by the cylinder shirt regarding the detachment of material that I suppose should be chrome .
My question is, if this could be due to a bad fuel, lack of lubrication, misuse of the user. It is really amazing how much damage this piece has.
Ken, what do you think of fuel to use ??? , In my opinion, given your experience and from what I see here in this deteriorated piece, you should not spend 5% nitromethane and always with 20% beaver .... I guess
I think it's an engine for not demanding too much. To use it sport ??? !!! Huh...



avatar
MauricioB
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Posts : 780
Join date : 2016-02-16
Age : 46

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine AP 0.061

Post  1/2A Nut on Mon May 15, 2017 8:28 am

I have done some testing with the AP .061 Wasp




Published on Jun 13, 2015

AP .061 Wasp on a Profi 1/2A tuned pipe with a Sportwerks header pipe.
Best noted peak 26.3k rpm / engine is new and has about 3oz of fuel ran thru it.
APC 4.2 x 4. Fuel 20% castor 25% nitro.
Spins a APC 4.5x4 at 23.47k





Published on Jun 28, 2015

Skorch Flying - AP .061 - Profi 1/2A Tuned Pipe
Best pass noted so far 24,793 rpm on the pipe APC 4.5x4 / 94mph
Tuned pipe length set for 25k unloaded
(9.8in) from center of the convergent cone to the piston face.
5ch plane 11.8oz less fuel.

avatar
1/2A Nut
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Posts : 1116
Join date : 2013-10-20
Age : 54
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine AP 0.061

Post  Surfer_kris on Mon May 15, 2017 11:11 am

Ken Cook wrote:  I conclude that it can be a fun engine to use just don't expect the same offerings of a Norvel.

Yes, I agree, it is a poor copy of the Norvel but it can still be useful as a sports engine.
It needs 20-25% all castor, in order to combat the crankcase wear, and has worked okej for me with anything from 0 -10% nitro in the fuel.

It needs a better head shims and a thorough clean out before the first start. If one wants to use the throttle it needs an air-bleed hole or other other type of low-end compensation. I also turned the carb 180° so that the fuel line would not heat up against the muffler. The APC 5.7x3 is a good fit to the engine, and the MAS 5.5x4 also works (about maximum useful load for the engine I would say).

Mine has worked fine in an old two-channel plane, now a three-channel one, but the throttle is mainly for the start and shut down of the engine.

The fit and seal of the muffler against the crankcase is rather poor, I've added JB-weld to the muffler in order improve the sealing surface and possibly get a more stable tank pressure.

The Merlin plugs fit the engine and I've used their "hot" one, as shown below, but don't think it actually changed things by much. Also fitted a piece of fuel tubing over the needle etc etc...




avatar
Surfer_kris
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1270
Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine AP 0.061

Post  Ken Cook on Mon May 15, 2017 4:41 pm

That's actually quite shocking to see the liner peeled. The AP uses circlips to hold the wrist pin in the piston. I can see one of those dislodging and causing that kind of damage but that just plain out looks like a bad plating job. As I mentioned about the piston fit on my engine, it was extremely tight. I lapped my piston and it did a lot for hand starts and overall rpm. If the piston did heat grow I can see it galling the cylinder wall. I use Sig Fuels and I was using 25% nitro with 20% oil. I have had very good success using this fuel. Ken
avatar
Ken Cook
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2706
Join date : 2012-03-27
Location : pennsylvania

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine AP 0.061

Post  1/2A Nut on Mon May 15, 2017 6:28 pm

Mine has about 14 oz all up through it so far the engine is a great low budget speed choice as shown in the vids.
Lame deal on your piston sleeve set. I picked up the engine new old stock in the box for cheap is why I
took the time to use it. You will enjoy your engine as long as there are no manufacturing flaws.

I then went on to the next test engine a Norvel .061 the results:

APC 4.2x4 with 2oz of bench running prior to first flight
In the hand 25,436 / 96F summer day
Best level pass 27,683 / 105 mph
avatar
1/2A Nut
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Posts : 1116
Join date : 2013-10-20
Age : 54
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine AP 0.061

Post  Surfer_kris on Tue May 16, 2017 1:17 am

Ken Cook wrote: That's actually quite shocking to see the liner peeled.

Yes, that's a scary sight indeed. I didn't want to comment too much on that until I had a closer look at my own engine. I bought this engine about ten years ago, but used it mainly during the first few years, so it hasn't seen that much of use yet to be worn out. I have only used full castor fuel in it etc.

Well, below you can see what it looks like now. It looks quite similar to the OS engine problem, i.e. it seems like the nickel layer is too thin and/or hasn't adhered well... Shocked

avatar
Surfer_kris
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1270
Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine AP 0.061

Post  Surfer_kris on Tue May 16, 2017 1:21 am

Here is an OS .10FP as a comparison too the picture above;


avatar
Surfer_kris
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1270
Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine AP 0.061

Post  MauricioB on Tue May 16, 2017 4:04 am

1/2A Nut wrote:I have done some testing with the AP .061 Wasp




Published on Jun 13, 2015

AP .061 Wasp on a Profi 1/2A tuned pipe with a Sportwerks header pipe.
Best noted peak 26.3k rpm / engine is new and has about 3oz of fuel ran thru it.
APC 4.2 x 4. Fuel 20% castor 25% nitro.
Spins a APC 4.5x4 at 23.47k





Published on Jun 28, 2015

Skorch Flying - AP .061 - Profi 1/2A Tuned Pipe
Best pass noted so far 24,793 rpm on the pipe APC 4.5x4 / 94mph
Tuned pipe length set for 25k unloaded
(9.8in) from center of the convergent cone to the piston face.
5ch plane 11.8oz less fuel.

Friend, excellent information, lots of data, thanks for all this contribution! Thumbs Up
avatar
MauricioB
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Posts : 780
Join date : 2016-02-16
Age : 46

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine AP 0.061

Post  MauricioB on Tue May 16, 2017 4:09 am

Kris; It should be noted that the detachment of the chrome-nickel layer, if it were possible, from the cylinder liner of the AP 0.061 .... may have to do with the quality of manufacture from the factory.
I feel sorry for what I see, it is a nice alternative engine, but this discourages a little! Sad
avatar
MauricioB
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Posts : 780
Join date : 2016-02-16
Age : 46

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine AP 0.061

Post  Ken Cook on Tue May 16, 2017 3:20 pm

Don't give up on the engine. I think even though I experienced some issues that the engine is one that will stay together requiring little to no maintenance aside from keeping it clean.
avatar
Ken Cook
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2706
Join date : 2012-03-27
Location : pennsylvania

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine AP 0.061

Post  Surfer_kris on Tue May 16, 2017 3:42 pm

Mine has certainly served me well for a few years, I haven't noticed any performance drop during flying, and just didn't expect it to be worn out already...

It has never killed the any glow plug, or other parts either, I still have the one it came with and only change to the Merlin one out of interest.
avatar
Surfer_kris
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1270
Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine AP 0.061

Post  MauricioB on Thu May 18, 2017 2:09 am

Well guys, I've started to start this new engine.
I disassembled it to inspect metal chips, but honestly it was clear, so I reassembled it and set it on a wooden board, for the first marches.
Place a 6x3 propeller and 4 to 1 fuel, ie 4 parts methyl and one castor.
It was easy to start, once the fuel entered the engine by barley plugging the carburetor, a couple of strokes to the finger, without a starter, and the engine began to march. The exhaust gives it a special sound.
Here some photos:




avatar
MauricioB
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Posts : 780
Join date : 2016-02-16
Age : 46

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine AP 0.061

Post  MauricioB on Thu May 18, 2017 2:15 am

Kris, you comment that it is necessary then to drill the carburetor body for the air intake when placing the barrel (guillotine) in the low gear position or adjusting. Same as a Norvel, right?
avatar
MauricioB
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Posts : 780
Join date : 2016-02-16
Age : 46

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine AP 0.061

Post  Surfer_kris on Thu May 18, 2017 6:11 am

Yes, it the same principle as the Norvel, I don't know why they didn't simply copy everything...
They did copy the hole in the engine lug for a Norvel spring starter, that was nice of them. Smile

I was perhaps a little too careful and the hole can be made larger (I think I made it less than 1mm in diameter). The position can be seen here;

avatar
Surfer_kris
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1270
Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Engine AP 0.061

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum