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Engine AP 0.061
Page 1 of 1
Re: Engine AP 0.061
I used the AP extensively in 1/2A combat or at least tried to. The AP comes equipped with a bronze bushing for the crank main. I found that to readily wear out and many others experienced that as well. I used a Cox venturi and spraybar by making a aluminum adapter to fit the case. I could use the stock venturi for sport flying or Kustom Kraftmanship to run on bladder. This also enabled me to switch to different sized venturi openings if I felt the need. My initial finding discovered that the aluminum head shim is useless and needs to be replaced with a copper Cox version. The AP plugs work well but are extremely short lived. My engine was taking out plugs furiously. I kept adding head shims and this was present for quite a few runs. I felt the piston liner fit to be rather excessive and the underside of my head appeared to look like someone glass beaded it which represents over compression or metal particles are striking it.
The AP never made the same or equal to rpm's that the Norvel would get. I ended up lapping in the piston slightly which helped with starting but the crank developed a lot of play. I installed a new bushing in the case. My experiments noted that this engine wouldn't suit the need for 1/2A combat . It would work great for sport use. The r/c crowd mentioned the numerous air leaks in and around the stock carb. I paid $25 for the engine when Hobby People offered it and I purchased 2 of them. They offered little to no parts support and Tower Hobbies quickly discontinued the engine offering no more than plugs and prop nuts. I conclude that it can be a fun engine to use just don't expect the same offerings of a Norvel.
The AP never made the same or equal to rpm's that the Norvel would get. I ended up lapping in the piston slightly which helped with starting but the crank developed a lot of play. I installed a new bushing in the case. My experiments noted that this engine wouldn't suit the need for 1/2A combat . It would work great for sport use. The r/c crowd mentioned the numerous air leaks in and around the stock carb. I paid $25 for the engine when Hobby People offered it and I purchased 2 of them. They offered little to no parts support and Tower Hobbies quickly discontinued the engine offering no more than plugs and prop nuts. I conclude that it can be a fun engine to use just don't expect the same offerings of a Norvel.
Ken Cook- Top Poster
- Posts : 5414
Join date : 2012-03-27
Location : pennsylvania
Re: Engine AP 0.061
Ken
Very interesting all this data. I will consider every item you mention when starting my engine.
These photos that I share with you - You, correspond to an AP061 of a colleague, who gave me the shirt - cylinder and piston so that I could personally observe the damage suffered by the cylinder shirt regarding the detachment of material that I suppose should be chrome .
My question is, if this could be due to a bad fuel, lack of lubrication, misuse of the user. It is really amazing how much damage this piece has.
Ken, what do you think of fuel to use ??? , In my opinion, given your experience and from what I see here in this deteriorated piece, you should not spend 5% nitromethane and always with 20% beaver .... I guess
I think it's an engine for not demanding too much. To use it sport ??? !!!
Very interesting all this data. I will consider every item you mention when starting my engine.
These photos that I share with you - You, correspond to an AP061 of a colleague, who gave me the shirt - cylinder and piston so that I could personally observe the damage suffered by the cylinder shirt regarding the detachment of material that I suppose should be chrome .
My question is, if this could be due to a bad fuel, lack of lubrication, misuse of the user. It is really amazing how much damage this piece has.
Ken, what do you think of fuel to use ??? , In my opinion, given your experience and from what I see here in this deteriorated piece, you should not spend 5% nitromethane and always with 20% beaver .... I guess
I think it's an engine for not demanding too much. To use it sport ??? !!!
MauricioB- Top Poster
- Posts : 3517
Join date : 2016-02-16
Age : 52
Location : ARG
Re: Engine AP 0.061
I have done some testing with the AP .061 Wasp
Published on Jun 13, 2015
AP .061 Wasp on a Profi 1/2A tuned pipe with a Sportwerks header pipe.
Best noted peak 26.3k rpm / engine is new and has about 3oz of fuel ran thru it.
APC 4.2 x 4. Fuel 20% castor 25% nitro.
Spins a APC 4.5x4 at 23.47k
Published on Jun 28, 2015
Skorch Flying - AP .061 - Profi 1/2A Tuned Pipe
Best pass noted so far 24,793 rpm on the pipe APC 4.5x4 / 94mph
Tuned pipe length set for 25k unloaded
(9.8in) from center of the convergent cone to the piston face.
5ch plane 11.8oz less fuel.
Published on Jun 13, 2015
AP .061 Wasp on a Profi 1/2A tuned pipe with a Sportwerks header pipe.
Best noted peak 26.3k rpm / engine is new and has about 3oz of fuel ran thru it.
APC 4.2 x 4. Fuel 20% castor 25% nitro.
Spins a APC 4.5x4 at 23.47k
Published on Jun 28, 2015
Skorch Flying - AP .061 - Profi 1/2A Tuned Pipe
Best pass noted so far 24,793 rpm on the pipe APC 4.5x4 / 94mph
Tuned pipe length set for 25k unloaded
(9.8in) from center of the convergent cone to the piston face.
5ch plane 11.8oz less fuel.
1/2A Nut- Top Poster
- Posts : 3402
Join date : 2013-10-20
Age : 60
Location : Brad in Texas
Re: Engine AP 0.061
Ken Cook wrote: I conclude that it can be a fun engine to use just don't expect the same offerings of a Norvel.
Yes, I agree, it is a poor copy of the Norvel but it can still be useful as a sports engine.
It needs 20-25% all castor, in order to combat the crankcase wear, and has worked okej for me with anything from 0 -10% nitro in the fuel.
It needs a better head shims and a thorough clean out before the first start. If one wants to use the throttle it needs an air-bleed hole or other other type of low-end compensation. I also turned the carb 180° so that the fuel line would not heat up against the muffler. The APC 5.7x3 is a good fit to the engine, and the MAS 5.5x4 also works (about maximum useful load for the engine I would say).
Mine has worked fine in an old two-channel plane, now a three-channel one, but the throttle is mainly for the start and shut down of the engine.
The fit and seal of the muffler against the crankcase is rather poor, I've added JB-weld to the muffler in order improve the sealing surface and possibly get a more stable tank pressure.
The Merlin plugs fit the engine and I've used their "hot" one, as shown below, but don't think it actually changed things by much. Also fitted a piece of fuel tubing over the needle etc etc...
Surfer_kris- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1893
Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden
Re: Engine AP 0.061
That's actually quite shocking to see the liner peeled. The AP uses circlips to hold the wrist pin in the piston. I can see one of those dislodging and causing that kind of damage but that just plain out looks like a bad plating job. As I mentioned about the piston fit on my engine, it was extremely tight. I lapped my piston and it did a lot for hand starts and overall rpm. If the piston did heat grow I can see it galling the cylinder wall. I use Sig Fuels and I was using 25% nitro with 20% oil. I have had very good success using this fuel. Ken
Ken Cook- Top Poster
- Posts : 5414
Join date : 2012-03-27
Location : pennsylvania
Re: Engine AP 0.061
Mine has about 14 oz all up through it so far the engine is a great low budget speed choice as shown in the vids.
Lame deal on your piston sleeve set. I picked up the engine new old stock in the box for cheap is why I
took the time to use it. You will enjoy your engine as long as there are no manufacturing flaws.
I then went on to the next test engine a Norvel .061 the results:
APC 4.2x4 with 2oz of bench running prior to first flight
In the hand 25,436 / 96F summer day
Best level pass 27,683 / 105 mph
Lame deal on your piston sleeve set. I picked up the engine new old stock in the box for cheap is why I
took the time to use it. You will enjoy your engine as long as there are no manufacturing flaws.
I then went on to the next test engine a Norvel .061 the results:
APC 4.2x4 with 2oz of bench running prior to first flight
In the hand 25,436 / 96F summer day
Best level pass 27,683 / 105 mph
1/2A Nut- Top Poster
- Posts : 3402
Join date : 2013-10-20
Age : 60
Location : Brad in Texas
Re: Engine AP 0.061
Ken Cook wrote: That's actually quite shocking to see the liner peeled.
Yes, that's a scary sight indeed. I didn't want to comment too much on that until I had a closer look at my own engine. I bought this engine about ten years ago, but used it mainly during the first few years, so it hasn't seen that much of use yet to be worn out. I have only used full castor fuel in it etc.
Well, below you can see what it looks like now. It looks quite similar to the OS engine problem, i.e. it seems like the nickel layer is too thin and/or hasn't adhered well...
Surfer_kris- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1893
Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden
Re: Engine AP 0.061
Friend, excellent information, lots of data, thanks for all this contribution!1/2A Nut wrote:I have done some testing with the AP .061 Wasp
Published on Jun 13, 2015
AP .061 Wasp on a Profi 1/2A tuned pipe with a Sportwerks header pipe.
Best noted peak 26.3k rpm / engine is new and has about 3oz of fuel ran thru it.
APC 4.2 x 4. Fuel 20% castor 25% nitro.
Spins a APC 4.5x4 at 23.47k
Published on Jun 28, 2015
Skorch Flying - AP .061 - Profi 1/2A Tuned Pipe
Best pass noted so far 24,793 rpm on the pipe APC 4.5x4 / 94mph
Tuned pipe length set for 25k unloaded
(9.8in) from center of the convergent cone to the piston face.
5ch plane 11.8oz less fuel.
MauricioB- Top Poster
- Posts : 3517
Join date : 2016-02-16
Age : 52
Location : ARG
Re: Engine AP 0.061
Kris; It should be noted that the detachment of the chrome-nickel layer, if it were possible, from the cylinder liner of the AP 0.061 .... may have to do with the quality of manufacture from the factory.
I feel sorry for what I see, it is a nice alternative engine, but this discourages a little!
I feel sorry for what I see, it is a nice alternative engine, but this discourages a little!
MauricioB- Top Poster
- Posts : 3517
Join date : 2016-02-16
Age : 52
Location : ARG
Re: Engine AP 0.061
Don't give up on the engine. I think even though I experienced some issues that the engine is one that will stay together requiring little to no maintenance aside from keeping it clean.
Ken Cook- Top Poster
- Posts : 5414
Join date : 2012-03-27
Location : pennsylvania
Re: Engine AP 0.061
Mine has certainly served me well for a few years, I haven't noticed any performance drop during flying, and just didn't expect it to be worn out already...
It has never killed the any glow plug, or other parts either, I still have the one it came with and only change to the Merlin one out of interest.
It has never killed the any glow plug, or other parts either, I still have the one it came with and only change to the Merlin one out of interest.
Surfer_kris- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1893
Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden
Re: Engine AP 0.061
Well guys, I've started to start this new engine.
I disassembled it to inspect metal chips, but honestly it was clear, so I reassembled it and set it on a wooden board, for the first marches.
Place a 6x3 propeller and 4 to 1 fuel, ie 4 parts methyl and one castor.
It was easy to start, once the fuel entered the engine by barley plugging the carburetor, a couple of strokes to the finger, without a starter, and the engine began to march. The exhaust gives it a special sound.
Here some photos:
I disassembled it to inspect metal chips, but honestly it was clear, so I reassembled it and set it on a wooden board, for the first marches.
Place a 6x3 propeller and 4 to 1 fuel, ie 4 parts methyl and one castor.
It was easy to start, once the fuel entered the engine by barley plugging the carburetor, a couple of strokes to the finger, without a starter, and the engine began to march. The exhaust gives it a special sound.
Here some photos:
MauricioB- Top Poster
- Posts : 3517
Join date : 2016-02-16
Age : 52
Location : ARG
Re: Engine AP 0.061
Kris, you comment that it is necessary then to drill the carburetor body for the air intake when placing the barrel (guillotine) in the low gear position or adjusting. Same as a Norvel, right?
MauricioB- Top Poster
- Posts : 3517
Join date : 2016-02-16
Age : 52
Location : ARG
Re: Engine AP 0.061
Yes, it the same principle as the Norvel, I don't know why they didn't simply copy everything...
They did copy the hole in the engine lug for a Norvel spring starter, that was nice of them.
I was perhaps a little too careful and the hole can be made larger (I think I made it less than 1mm in diameter). The position can be seen here;
They did copy the hole in the engine lug for a Norvel spring starter, that was nice of them.
I was perhaps a little too careful and the hole can be made larger (I think I made it less than 1mm in diameter). The position can be seen here;
Surfer_kris- Diamond Member
- Posts : 1893
Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden
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