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Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

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Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  roddie on Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:08 pm

My wife Lynne has been vacationing with her daughter for a few days in "Sturbridge, MA".. (about an hours drive from N. Smithfield) and home to "Sturbridge-Village"........... and "Hog Heaven Hobbies".. a really good hobby shop. I was told by the "N.E.S.T.-flyers" that they stock Power-Master fuels.. so I called them this afternoon to inquire. They have 10-22 in stock.. so I asked them to hold one gallon in my name.. and my wife would pick it up tomorrow before she leaves for home.

I've wanted some of this fuel for a LONG time to run in my old steel-fin engines. I didn't ask about the price.. but it has to be less/gal. than mail-ordering with hazmat fees.. or else I would have ordered a similar fuel-blend from Sig by now.

I asked about blends having "more oil".. but the 10-22 was the highest that they stocked. I can always mail-order some Baker's AA Castor from Sig Manufacturing.. to bring the oil-content up if need be.

Most of you know about my old steel-fin engines that would require adequate lubrication by design. The early Fox's; .15, .29 and .35.. the McCoy .09, .19(s) and .35.... Veco .35, OS MaxIII .29 and Enya's .19V-4005 and .29-5224.

I've been wanting to run most of these engines for YEARS..... but hadn't sourced the adequate fuel for them.

Any suggestions on whether I need to "up" the castor-content for a particular engine? Some of the NEST guys run 10-29 in their old Fox .35's.. but I think that's quite a bit conservative.

It would be great to get a Ringmaster flight in for the upcoming "Fly-a-Thon".. and my ARF S5 "Junior's" beams are drilled for the Fox .15. That might be doable.. although I'd hoped to rebuild the nose to mount the Cox Tee Dee .09. Time and ambition will tell...

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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  NEW222 on Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:23 pm

Well, I cannot give you a definate answer, but I can honestly say that it should be fine. I am in the same boat myself. I luckily had someone get me a gallon of Sig 5% 25% all castor fuel. I had read many times as well to up it to 29% overall. Concensus that I had seen was that the 25% is more than enough for most. I do have castor on hand, but I will be using the fuel as it is. Another way I look at it is I have seen many people get an older engine and run it with standard local off the shelf fuel and have not had any problems. A friend runs 4-stroke Cool-Power in all of his engines and he has some older ones that should get the castor treatmant. For those, he adds only a couple ounces per gallon. This is just my findings and opinion, but I honestly feel you would be alright, even more-so if you add a couple ounces of castor to the gallon.
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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  roddie on Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:04 pm

NEW222 wrote:Well, I cannot give you a definate answer, but I can honestly say that it should be fine. I am in the same boat myself. I luckily had someone get me a gallon of Sig 5% 25% all castor fuel. I had read many times as well to up it to 29% overall. Concensus that I had seen was that the 25% is more than enough for most. I do have castor on hand, but I will be using the fuel as it is. Another way I look at it is I have seen many people get an older engine and run it with standard local off the shelf fuel and have not had any problems. A friend runs 4-stroke Cool-Power in all of his engines and he has some older ones that should get the castor treatmant. For those, he adds only a couple ounces per gallon. This is just my findings and opinion, but I honestly feel you would be alright, even more-so if you add a couple ounces of castor to the gallon.

Hi Chancey, Thanks for checking-in! The old fella's of NEST (New England Stunt Team) are C/L stunt veterans.. and many have had their old stunt-engines running for decades.. and run them "slobbering-rich".. while flying a pattern. I have a special appreciation for that mind-set. Their airplanes might get oil-soaked.. after years of flying.. but the irreplaceable engine will be well-lubricated to stand the test of time.

I'd rather lean-toward that mind-set.. because many of my old engines have been in my family for 60+ years.
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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  Cribbs74 on Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:03 pm

Yeah so 10/22 10 percent nitro 11% synth and 11% castor. Unfortunately I can only speak on Foxes, Enya and K&B as that's all I run and I run 10/22 in all those. I have Super Tigres too, but for those I will probably run 25%

Powermaster/VP GMA 10/29 is 29% all castor. Guys here in OK will buy a gallon of each 10/22 and 10/29 and mix the two gallons together. In the end you have roughly 10/25, mostly castor with some synth to prevent varnish.

If it were me I would just add a few ounces of castor and just run 10/25 in everything you have. It won't hurt the Fox and it will be better for the McCoy's.
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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  Ken Cook on Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:15 am

Unfortunately, due to lack of sales the Powermaster 29% is no longer made. If you can find it, terrific. A bunch of us here in Phila and New Jersey pretty much begged them to continue the production of that fuel. The bottom line was no. I personally don't use that much oil aside from a few vintage engines. Depending on the years the Foxes were made, they have brass end pads on the wrist pin ends. The Mccoy has this, the Fox .15 and also some Fox .35's. Increasing the oil content can certainly offer some protection there. Condition is everything though and regardless of what fuel your running if the above areas I have mentioned are compromised, the engine is pretty much a shelf queen.
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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  Cribbs74 on Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:53 am

I just went to the VP site and you are correct 5/22 and 10/22 is all they carry. Fuel situation is dire. Besides SIG where can we go?
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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  RknRusty on Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:23 am

Sig Champion 10/20 is fine for my OS engines. Powermaster 10/22 is my favorite and I especially like the metal gallon cans. I've switched from one to the other without needing to change a needle setting. I do add castor to the Sig.

Roddie, just so you know, and especially since you're a low volume user, Sig can be bought in any number of quarts per order without hazmat fees. Still about $10 bucks for shipping last time I ordered, more than a year ago.
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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  Ken Cook on Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:13 pm

Ron, there's Brodak fuel my least favorite but he does offer 29% if desired. Ritch's brew is in my opinion very good but expensive for me to ship here. He will make anything and it works very good. S&W fuels which is local to me.  Stan from S&W fuels will make any blend nitro and oil content. All 3 of the above are control line flyers and understand what works and what is needed. Morgan fuels who makes Cool Power also offers a control line blend equivalent to 10-22. Red Max used to and probably still does mix any desired blend you wanted them to make.
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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  Cribbs74 on Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:20 pm

Thanks Ken,

I picked up a gallon of 10/29 on my way home and placed an order for a case of 10/22. He doesn't always come through for me and if he doesn't I'll be on the horn with one of the places you mentioned.

The 10/29 was that old purple stuff. I had him take $5 off the price because it had sat on the shelf.
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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  roddie on Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:29 pm

I came home from work tonight.. and Lynne had my gallon of VP/PowerMaster 10-22 sitting on the top cellar-stair. It cost $25. I called the H/S yesterday afternoon and asked about 10-25 and 10-29.. but other than 10-18 4-stroke fuel; this was all they had. They did have six gallons of 10-22 in reserve if I wanted more. I should have inquired about 1/2A fuel.. but I like Sig-Champion.. and can order some direct from Sig in quarts.. along with some castor. This hobby shop is about 45 minutes away.. and I'd thought about making the trip several times.. but since my wife was in the area.. I seized the moment.



I love the metal can.. but I'd like to source five "metal quart-cans" for adding castor to some. That would probably be the most economical way to use this gallon; by making a couple quarts of 10-25 from it and maybe one quart of 10-29? The fuel should stay fresher-longer in the un-opened cans.. and knowing "me"; it will take me a while to go-through a gallon of fuel.  Laughing

I found these 1qt. cans on the web for $2.05/ea. which seems like a good deal..

http://bascousa.com/1-quart-metal-f-style-cans.html

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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  dckrsn on Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:05 pm

Roddie, you can check the Depot or Lowes for the cans, but
I seem to remember decent paint stores carrying pint and
quart, screw top cans. The factory stores like Pittsburg,
Sherwin Williams, or the like should have 'em. Save a few
rupees on shipping.
Kudos to Lynne for the fuel. I'll do a shot. drunken
Bob
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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  RknRusty on Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:53 pm

Sweet! I love a brand new Gallon of fuel. Those metal cans are the ticket if the cap seals are dependable. I might get a couple.

I use about 4-5 gallons a year and am picking up a new one at our meeting in H'ville Saturday. I'd like to have a quart can for the flightbox. I used to use the 16 oz. milk bottles with the molded seal in the threaded cap, but that's no longer enough for a day's flying since I graduated from the .25 sized engines I used in the Shoestring, Osprey, and Ukey.

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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  roddie on Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:40 am

dckrsn wrote:
I seem to remember decent paint stores carrying pint and
quart, screw top cans. The factory stores like Pittsburg,
Sherwin Williams, or the like should have 'em. Save a few
rupees on shipping.

Bob

I'll give that a shot Bob. There's SW and Benjamin Moore stores local to me. There's also a chemical-supply house (Camger) in nearby Norfolk, MA that could possibly have them. The Lowes and Home Depot stores that I've checked, only have the round cans (pry-off lids)

My rubber fuel-bulb is pretty old.. so I'd like to get another one.. although I'm gonna' need something bigger when I start running bigger engines/fuel-tanks. Do you guys use the crank-pumps?
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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  Marleysky on Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:20 pm

1- I'm glad to see you support you LHS, in this case LDHS, Long Distance Hobby Shop.

2- lesson learned from a group of flyers at the field. DO NOT RETURN "Used " fuel to your Fresh Fuel container. After flying for the day they'd  pump out the tanks of their aircraft back into the gallon jug. After a few flying sessions, they had trouble starting and getting reliable idle settings. After much messing around with needle settings and cursing a dead stick landing or two, they tried a jug of new fresh fuel, problems went away. Someone ( at the LHS)  told them they were contaminating their "fresh" fuel with the dirt, debris and gunk from the plane tanks, even though the planes were new ARFs .  So now they have a "flying" fuel jug, and a "recycle" plane cleaning jug.

3- there was a third thing....oh, fuel pumps. Squeeze bulbs for a few ounces, hand crank for more ounces, and electric for many ounces. Just remember they may be a source of contamination. If you're gonna transfer from one gallon to quarts, use good easy to clean funnel. Ya won't knock anything over like with the wires and tubes of a pump!
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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  roddie on Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:57 am

Marleysky wrote:

3- there was a third thing....oh, fuel pumps. Squeeze bulbs for a few ounces, hand crank for more ounces, and electric for many ounces. Just remember they may be a source of contamination. If you're gonna transfer from one gallon to quarts, use good easy to clean funnel. Ya won't knock anything over like with the wires and tubes of a pump!

I heard somewhere that the deteriorating rubber from using an old bulb can cause glow-plug coil damage. I'm not sure if installing an in-line filter on the model's tank will prevent this.

I'm in the habit of keeping my old (15+ years..) 4oz. bulb "capped".. unless I'm actually fueling or evacuating. I use an automotive-type vacuum-line cap that fits snug on the bulb-tubing.



I feel that it serves multiple purposes. For one; it helps to keep the end of the tubing clean while knocking around in transit/storage/use. I also feel that it helps to keep the inside of the bulb "sealed" from drying-out after it's evacuated of fuel. When evacuating my bulb; after the "bulk" of the fuel has been squeezed-out.. I then invert the bulb.. and "pinch" the very end of the tubing while squeezing the bulb and "release" the pinch, which emits a mist of vapor. I do this 3-4 times until only "air" comes out. The bulb is then capped until it's used again. Has this helped to preserve it? I think maybe so. My bulb shown in the photo is starting to show signs of age. I have a few small syringes for fueling 1/2A tanks.. but I really like the "bulb".. and want to get another one.

Many of you may remember the little bulbs that "Sig" used to provide with their 1/2A starting-kit..



When I later bought my "2nd" kit from Sig.. they'd replaced the little bulb with a syringe.. Sad




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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  Ken Cook on Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:23 am

Fuel bulbs dry rot not to mention if they tip over spill out. A 2 oz. syringe with a luer lock fitting on the end yields no spills and cleanliness. Luer lock fittings can be drilled for 1/8" tubing and a small 3/32" tip can be soldered into the end allowing for 1/2A fueling. Using a screw and bolt on the top flange of the syringe will prevent accidental pull outs. In addition, fuel tube extensions can be placed on the fitting and connected to the screw to prevent dirt and contamination. A 2 oz syringe with the fitting I mentioned costs less than $4. The degradation of rubber particles as you mention has never been an issue for me at least. It's been stated that the rubber particles allow for taters to grow on the plug. Plugs are expendable, however for the frugal control liner, they feel they last forever generally saving the one that they took out from a year ago leaving it in the pit box for another time.
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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  roddie on Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:39 am

Ken Cook wrote:          Fuel bulbs dry rot not to mention if they tip over spill out. A 2 oz. syringe with a luer lock fitting on the end yields no spills and cleanliness. Luer lock fittings can be drilled for 1/8" tubing and a small 3/32" tip can be soldered into the end allowing for 1/2A fueling. Using a screw and bolt on the top flange of the syringe will prevent accidental pull outs. In addition, fuel tube extensions can be placed on the fitting and connected to the screw to prevent dirt and contamination. A 2 oz syringe with the fitting I mentioned costs less than $4.  The degradation of rubber particles as you mention has never been an issue for me at least. It's been stated that the rubber particles allow for taters to grow on the plug. Plugs are expendable,  however for the frugal control liner, they feel they last forever generally saving the one that they took out from a year ago leaving it in the pit box for another time.

Thanks Ken. Can you dig-up a photo of the syringe set-up that you speak of? I'd like to "see it".. and maybe I can adapt something.. or source the correct parts.
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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  Ken Cook on Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:02 am

http://kittingittogether.com/accessories/2-ounce-syringe-fueler-with-tip-fixture-kt23b/ There are dozens of different style tips. I modify them for my needs. This one shown can be modified, not my particular choice but it works nonetheless.
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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  Ken Cook on Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:06 am

I was using this tip style for a while but found it to break where the metal went into the plastic. https://jensenglobal.com/products/nt-premium-series-dispensing-tip-18-gauge it wasn't purchased from here. MBS model supply also offers tips http://mbsmodelsupply.com/Ordering/Order.php
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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  roddie on Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:47 pm

Ken, I saved those web-links to my data-base. Thanks for taking the time to post them! Thumbs Up
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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  RknRusty on Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:10 pm

These are handy and can be had from Texastimers.com under the bladder accessories.
They fit both Luer Lok and Lure Taper syringes.

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Re: Power-Master fuel coming home tomorrow.

Post  fredvon4 on Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:34 am

WalMart sells 2oz meat injector syringes for 88cents each in the BBQ section

These come with a very large Gage needle. Luerlok type, that can be cut and used as your tubing attachment or a glue tip

Tractor supply sells all sorts of small to very big syringes for reasonable prices, usually in the livestock section
All have the Luerlok nose

I use a lot of the smaller syringes to dispense glue where I want it. Some glues are too much trouble to clean out (Sigment). The ones I use for TiteBond III get rinsed in water ...too cheap and too easy

2oz to 5 oz are what I use for fueling
I put packing tape over the black numbers on the side to keep fuel from erasing the marks
I always put a screw up near the top to prevent blow out (bladder use) or just plain old pull too far out

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