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N.E.S.T news

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N.E.S.T news

Post  roddie on Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:26 pm

N.E.S.T. (New England Stunt Team).. a C/L precision aerobatic club based in the Northeast US is having its 2017 Massachusetts Cup this weekend at the Cracker-Barrel fairgrounds, 350 Emerald St, in Wrentham, Ma. 02092.

Saturday Aug. 26th, "Old Time Stunt"
Sunday Aug. 27th, "Pampa Stunt" (four classes)

Pilots meeting 8:30 am

CD and contact person: Dick Carville (home) (978) 452-4521
(cell) (978) 973-6821

Register on the day. AMA Membership required.

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Re: N.E.S.T news

Post  roddie on Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:01 pm

A week late.. but here's a few photos taken on the 2nd day (Sunday Aug. 27th) P.A.M.P.A. stunt.

Electric-power was prevalent.. Neutral .. but there were a few IC engines in some of the airplanes..

like this old SV-11..  Smoking





and this one.. (not sure what it is..)



but mostly electrics/electric-conversions.. a bit sad IMHO.. but I can understand their application/necessity for the pilot who wants to hone his flying-skills without the distraction/concern of how his engine is running.. as well as practice-flying where noise is a factor. Some flyers are also just "not engine-guys". Note the absence of fuel-cans and related glow-engine support-gear..











My daughter took these flight photos with her phone camera. I thought that these were pretty cool.. considering that she captured two different models flying in separate circles..






She's got a good eye for capturing models in flight..










Most of the contestants were flying what I'd consider "advanced patterns".. pulling-out of beautifully-carved maneuvers into a "rock-steady" level-flight about 5-6 feet off the ground. Our "Rusty" frequently writes about his experiences flying the pattern.. and I was watching closely.. and taking it all in!

I think that in competition; either "extra-points" should be awarded for IC engines.. or a penalty imposed on electrics where there is a "mix" between the two. There is a definite "skill-set" needed to achieving the proper IC-engine run. Any thoughts on this?
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Re: N.E.S.T news

Post  Ken Cook on Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:52 am

There's more to it than just noise. Fuel is nearing $30 a gallon, plugs are nearing $10 . That ST .60 is burning 6-8 ounces a flight, Putting up 3 practice flights and two officials equates to $10. The mess can ruin your car and the fuel eats up your finish. People are getting tired of it when this newer technology is available. I'm not that individual but I can relate to their concerns. As far as flying, it's about the pilot and not the engine or motor run. If you know how to fly, whatever choice you make is irrelevant and no one should be offered more points for one or the other. That's not a incentive to make more fly IC, it's a premeditated argument that will end in a hostile way. In old time stunt, more points are offered for using period correct ignition engines, that's a entirely different story as running sparkers are a hobby in itself. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it. I'm lucky to see one every few years. I play with them on the bench but running them in a plane is a test of patience.

Looking through your pictures I see the orange and blue plane. That's a friend of mine Jim Damerell. I'm quite shocked to see his plane there and in the same sense I'm glad. Jim has had some health issues and without asking him directly, I know his foot was offering him extreme problems to the point he couldn't walk. Seeing his plane there suggests he's flying and I'm happy for him. Jim sprayed his Skywrighter with Auto Air water based poly. Everything Jim does is in water based polyurethanes. I see another plane in there which I believe is also another acquaintance of mine George Waters. It would've been cool to see a score board.
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Re: N.E.S.T news

Post  getback on Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:54 am

Good to see you got out there and had some fun with the event , Nice looking planes and good shots (pics) I know its disappointing to see very few I/C engines there , but at least the hobby is still ALIVE !! Small Cox Logo Babe Bee .049 Small Cox Logo
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Re: N.E.S.T news

Post  roddie on Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:40 am

getback wrote:Good to see you got out there and had some fun with the event , Nice looking planes and good shots (pics) I know its disappointing to see very few I/C engines there , but at least the hobby is still ALIVE !! Small Cox Logo Babe Bee .049 Small Cox Logo

Yes.. it is! I understand Ken's views though, regarding the diminishing use of the fuel-burners. He made several good points as to why we're seeing this. These guys who are flying the electrics, only need to bring their airplane, handle/lines and a few battery-packs to the field.. and maybe a field-charger which stays at their vehicle.

I thought it was great that Ken recognized the airplanes of a few fellow modelers! I'm going to try to get some info on the events' score-sheets. I personally know and have contact info for one of the judges (Leon Bowen) who may be able to provide them.
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Re: N.E.S.T news

Post  Ken Cook on Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:18 am

In regards to certain engines, the ST .60 is nearly 50 years old . It still can be very competitive however parts are getting even more scarce and props are disappearing rapidly. The shift to electric prop technology has made almost all manufactures cater to that market. The ST .60 still is old school ring technology which uses large higher pitched props than the modern stuff today.  I see the one pictured is using a newer Xoar prop. Nicely made props and I'm quite certain the Tiger users lobbied to get that made. Two strokes are offering their power stroke every other stroke while certain motors are doing the same in 18+ pulses per revolution so one can already imagine the benefits that's gained. Those that fly competitively using IC rely on their experience and equipment to get the job done in under 8 minutes. A bad needle setting or a engine that's has a borderline tank size is EXTREMELY critical in regards to needle setting, temperature, planets aligned and so forth. Once that mark is achieved that pilot is good to go for the day. That is experience gained by knowing your equipment. Electric is plug and play. A electric flyer can change his run times from start to finish with pinpoint accuracy. That to me is a VERY UNFAIR advantage over the IC users. If a IC user flies his scheduled maneuvers and  has a over run he's disqualified. A electric pilot is in full control of his start and stop times due to using a onboard timer.

                 This has been a heated discussion and one of my fellow club members Mike Palko was the innovator of electric stunt as he was the first person to competitively fly electric at the NATS and qualify in the top 10. Apparently, the way you beat the electric crowd is to join the electric crowd. I will stay put for now as I have no intentions on going that route. I was flying with Mike yesterday and refuses to hold the plane unless it's electric.


A little history on Mike from the net : Mike Palko has been flying electric powered stunters for about 6 to 8 years. He started flying electrics in competition in 2003 and finished 6th at the 2004 USA Nats and 4th at the 2005 Nats using his latest design, the `Silencer’ (pictured below). The `Silencer’ design was published in `Model Aviation’ magazine in March this year. Bob Hunt, (US Nats winner and former world champion) has just placed 3rd at the USA team trials with his Genesis that was converted from IC to electric. If what I have read on the internet is correct, Bob has based his model on the technology developed by Mike Palko.

Mike says that he thinks that electric power will be superior to Internal Combustion power in the next few years because it has many advantages today and it will only get better with time. The power delivery is the smoothest that you will ever feel. There is no Centre of Gravity shift due to burning fuel during your flight. There are no more over runs, bad needle settings, or miscellaneous problems associated with IC engines (tank issues, dirt, bad fuel etc). No oil soaking, no loss of power in humid conditions (or bad weather in general). The advantages are so numerous he is still finding more each time he flies. He flew his Silencer in wind gusts to 32mph at the 2004 US Nats to give you an idea of the power available. Mike has kindly supplied us with his guidelines for anyone interested in getting started in electric powered stunt flying.




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Re: N.E.S.T news

Post  fredvon4 on Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:28 pm

For me the buy in price for a good electrickery system is one reason I balk, That and there still is a rather steep battery managment learning curve.

But today you certainly can get the proper sized system for your Nobler (as example) and using the recommended motor, prop, battery, and timer/governor settings posted
Basic plane trimming is a little different but only difference from what I read, is proper Lead out location and CG ...the same basics apply

There are dozens to hundreds who got Brodak ARF E-RingMaster and were flying that weekend in some school yard again...long ago not accessible by us Glow and Noise guys

I may play electrickery with 1/2a once it gets a but more mature (battery weights) but really just to have better control for teaching my grandson here in the front yard and not worrying about funky .049 fiddling... when an engine is giving me fits he losses interest fast and heads for the bicycle

My RC club (way back when I was active 2013) had several guys who went Gas from glow, and then to Electrickery on 100" wing span Pattern or 3D planes....and if I recall back then, the Big assed ARF and E power was nearly $6000 buy in

BUT each of the guys that lead the E-Power way... sure did fly a lot more than the guys trying to hand prop a 30CC motor with a 20 inch prop

I am not in any way anti e-power but do think personally certain disciplines shroud absolutely forbid it...Nostalgia or OTS comes to mind
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Re: N.E.S.T news

Post  roddie on Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:26 am

Ken Cook wrote:            

              Looking through your pictures I see the orange and blue plane. That's a friend of mine Jim Damerell. I'm quite shocked to see his plane there and in the same sense I'm glad. Jim has had some health issues and without asking him directly, I know his foot was offering him extreme problems to the point he couldn't walk. Seeing his plane there suggests he's flying and I'm happy for him. Jim sprayed his Skywrighter with Auto Air water based poly. Everything Jim does is in water based polyurethanes. I see another plane in there which I believe is also another acquaintance of mine George Waters. It would've been cool to see a score board.

Ken, I was able to obtain a photo of the score-board from one of the judges. See your friend Jim's score in expert.

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Re: N.E.S.T news

Post  Ken Cook on Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:13 pm

Actually, I know more on that list. My eyesight is very questionable right now. It looks like Jim took 2nd? I know Rick Huff as well.
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Re: N.E.S.T news

Post  Ken Cook on Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:14 pm

I'm also positive that some of these guys were present when I attended Neil Simpson's fly in in Mass. The Daly's were recently at our contest last month. Ken
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Re: N.E.S.T news

Post  roddie on Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:34 pm

Ken Cook wrote:             Actually, I know more on that list. My eyesight is very questionable right now. It looks like Jim took 2nd? I know Rick Huff as well.

Jim placed 7th in expert with a 2nd flight score of 491.5. His 1st-flight score is hard to read, because there appears to be a line through it. I think it was either 497 or 491.

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