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Help with a coil and condenser set-up.... Babe_b10
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Help with a coil and condenser set-up.... Empty Help with a coil and condenser set-up....

Post  WV. FLYGUY on Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:16 am

Good morning forum. I recently found this engine at a flea market and got it really cheap. After doing some research I found it to be a 1945 Rocket "Victor" product. I have read a little about it but cannot find out how to get it running as it did not come with the coil or condenser. Does anyone here have the knowledge to steer me in the right direction. It has great compression and actually really clean. Thanks for anyone's help. Below are a few pictures of it.

Help with a coil and condenser set-up.... Img_2913
Help with a coil and condenser set-up.... Img_2910
Help with a coil and condenser set-up.... Img_2912
Help with a coil and condenser set-up.... Img_2914
Help with a coil and condenser set-up.... Img_2911
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Post  getback on Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:26 am

Nice looking engine Terry , you can find the info you need here .. http://www.modelenginenews.org/techniques/sparkie.html Mecoa has some equimp. for these also .. http://mecoa.com/acc/vintage/index.htm Very Happy
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Post  WV. FLYGUY on Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:54 am

getback wrote:Nice looking engine Terry , you can find the info you need here .. http://www.modelenginenews.org/techniques/sparkie.html  Mecoa has some equimp. for these also ..  http://mecoa.com/acc/vintage/index.htm  Very Happy

Wow just what I was looking for my friend .... Thank You so much for the follow up and the quick reply. Great forum to say the least ... Have a really fine day ahead.
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Post  WV. FLYGUY on Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:59 am

getback wrote:Nice looking engine Terry , you can find the info you need here .. http://www.modelenginenews.org/techniques/sparkie.html  Mecoa has some equimp. for these also ..  http://mecoa.com/acc/vintage/index.htm  Very Happy

$69.95 for the whole ball of wax..Not bad at all. Would this be the right voltage? I'm guessing all these were the same for that era..

HISTORY OF THE "ROCKET" VICTOR MODEL AIRPLANE ENGINE

The 1945 Rocket "Victor" Model Airplane Engine was a development of the 1940 May "Silver King" manufactured in Detroit by George May. World War II brought an end to the May Corporation "Rocket" engines and by 1945, the engine was made by Corporate Products Inc. Which was also located in Detroit. Production (and the company) apparently ceased by 1947 and the product was sold off by the Little Mike Marx Toy Company. The demise of the Rocket Motors has been linked to General Motors Company. When GM was about to launch the new named Oldsmobile 88 "Rocket Motor" their marketing people discovered this "Rocket" Model Airplane Engine. Not wanting any brand name competition with their new named motor General Motors purchased the "Rocket Engine" model airplane operation and crushed all the existing dies that were at the factory. This put an end to the "Rocket Engine" forever.

It was a marvelous metal sculpture that ran very well. Having a timer arm casting we can only wonder how many of those survived flying accidents. The Rocket Victor engine utilized many steel stampings for internal parts. These parts were heavily case hardened, making them quite strong. The wrist pin arrangement in this engine is rather unique as the brass piston baffle is held in place by the wrist pin carrier nut. The engine has a reputation of being very strong if not constantly over-revved. The Rocket engine was heavily advertised in the immediate Post-War Era as one of the first engines to hit the market and had a price tag of $22.50. This did not include the coil and condenser. Ads Stated: The quick starting and thrilling performance of the Rocket Victor Engines are due to the patented *(R.I.V)* Rotor Intake Valve in connection with special tested parts. Every Rocket Engine is bench tested at the factory and the most exacting care is taken in the manufacturing operations. The advertised displacement was .460 cu. in.
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Post  Ken Cook on Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:55 pm

I know Bill Mohrbacher could provide more info on this engine. It appears to me that it's a lot like the slag engines made. The Thor, the Brown, Buzz, etc. These engines generally had no iron sleeve, just the piston running within the cylinder which generally were short lived. I could be totally incorrect about this as I have no knowledge of the Victor. One positive I see is the jug is being held on by 4 screws vs 2 which I typically see. Bob Zambelli used to post his setup for old sparkers on Stunthangar. He has a unique solid state setup which works flawlessly and doesn't break the bank to do so.
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Post  WV. FLYGUY on Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:03 pm

Ken Cook wrote:I know Bill Mohrbacher could provide more info on this engine. It appears to me that it's a lot like the slag engines made. The Thor, the Brown, Buzz, etc. These engines generally had no iron sleeve, just the piston running within the cylinder which generally were short lived. I could be totally incorrect about this as I have no knowledge of the Victor. One positive I see is the jug is being held on by 4 screws vs 2 which I typically see. Bob Zambelli used to post his setup for old sparkers on Stunthangar. He has a unique solid state setup which works flawlessly and doesn't break the bank to do so.

Thank you Ken for that info. The jug is actually held on with a 3 screw set-up as I had it apart. It was unbelievable clean inside. I cleaned all internal parts in denatured achohol. The varnish inside was only faint. I assume this ran on gasoline and castor oil. It appears it was not ran much at all. I lubricated all internal parts and put back together. I was really actually well built inside. You are correct in did not have a sleeve in the cylinder. Thanks again for your help hnere. This is a great forum with great people like yourself.
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Post  WV. FLYGUY on Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:09 pm

WV. FLYGUY wrote:
Ken Cook wrote:I know Bill Mohrbacher could provide more info on this engine. It appears to me that it's a lot like the slag engines made. The Thor, the Brown, Buzz, etc. These engines generally had no iron sleeve, just the piston running within the cylinder which generally were short lived. I could be totally incorrect about this as I have no knowledge of the Victor. One positive I see is the jug is being held on by 4 screws vs 2 which I typically see. Bob Zambelli used to post his setup for old sparkers on Stunthangar. He has a unique solid state setup which works flawlessly and doesn't break the bank to do so.

Thank you Ken for that info. The jug is actually held on with a 3 screw set-up as I had it apart. It was unbelievable clean inside. I cleaned all internal parts in denatured achohol. The varnish inside was only faint. I assume this ran on gasoline and castor oil. It appears it was not ran much at all. I lubricated all internal parts and put back together. I was really actually well built inside. You are correct in did not have a sleeve in the cylinder. Thanks again for your help hnere. This is a great forum with great people like yourself.

Here is another diagram I had found on this engine Ken.

Help with a coil and condenser set-up.... 1945_r10
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Post  crankbndr on Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:55 pm

This is a typical diagram for wiring, the coil and condenser can be found on eBay or from Woody Bartelt
http://www.woodysengines.com/shopping.htm

Help with a coil and condenser set-up.... Spark110
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Post  WV. FLYGUY on Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:31 pm

crankbndr wrote:This is a typical diagram for wiring, the coil and condenser can be found on eBay or from Woody Bartelt
http://www.woodysengines.com/shopping.htm

Help with a coil and condenser set-up.... Spark110

Than you very much. That was what I was looking for. You guys all have left me so much valuable information. I will try to assemble this and hear the engine run for fun anyway some day. Thanks again sir....
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Help with a coil and condenser set-up.... Empty Love the Rocket & May engines!

Post  JohnRTSE on Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:19 am

I have a May and (2) Rocket Motors in my collection. All are complete. The May is identical to the later Rocket Motors, except my May motor has a cylindrical fuel bowl above the intake pipe, instead of hanging below the intake pipe like on my Rocket Motors.
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Post  getback on Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:30 am

Cool You got a pic of the May engine ? I have still yet to run one of mine , my how time flys Too lol
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Post  sosam117 on Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:11 am

I belong to a group called SAM (Society of Antique Modelers)

The fly the old "Sparkie" engines like the Brown Jr. and others. I like using the diesels engines myself.
Also there is a guy (Larry Davidson) that makes coils and condensers (newer) for those old spark ignition engines.

They have their own chat list at:
samtalk_forum@yahoogroups.com
You'll have to sign up to email the group and get approved.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SAM_Talk/info

I have been able to get a few of them to sign up on the forum.
Ask your question on the SAM Talk group?

I have also posted your question over there as well.

Mike McIntyre
SAM member 3556
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Post  sosam117 on Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:58 am

This is a reply from the SAM Talk group site:

From: Wilson vander_e@hotmail.com [SAMTalk_Forum]
To: SAMTalk_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Larry Davidson
​My recommendation would be to start with a digital unit from Larry Davidson. His units are the best and come with full instructions.
Van...
cc: Larry Davidson
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Post  sosam117 on Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:56 am

Another reply from the SAM Talk group site:

From: samchamp@jetbroadband.com
[SAMTalk_Forum]
To: samtalk_forum@yahoogroups.com

                                                                        Larry Davidson
                                                                      488 Peaks View Dr.
                                                                 Moneta, VA 24121-2565
                                                                      (540) 721-4563
                                                           samchamp@jetbroadband.com
                                                                    5-20-2020 List

Name_____________________Phone#_______________Email_________________________________                                                                                                                                              Address______________________________________________________________________________

____ Rimfire  “V”  (3/8 X 24) Spark Plugs,   Great Plugs!                                         @ $ 27.00  

____ Rimfire  V-3  (1/4 X 32)  Short Reach   Spark Plugs                                           @ $25.00  

 ___ Rimfire  V-2   (1/4 X 32)  Long  Reach Spark Plugs                                           @ $25.00    

____ Rimfire VR-2  ( ¼” X 32)      “       Replaces old Champion VR-2 plugs               @25.00    

____Adaptor 3/8” X 24  To ¼” X 32 (Adapts V-2 & V-3 Size Plugs to Large 3/8” Threads)  $  3.75

____ Coils,  small,  light wt.   30 grams,  2.4V to 3.7V                                                @ $40.00
       
____ Solid State Ignition Module #SSIGN W/Instructions                                           @ $24.00

____ Solid State Ignition Unit #SSIGN2  (TIM-4),                                                      @ $ 24.00
        (Instructions Included for points or Hall Effect operation) W/SSIGN2

____ Ignition cut off w/solid state ignition combined   #SSIGNCO.                             @ $40.00
        When prop stops with the points closed on ignition engines more than 2 seconds,
        It Cuts Off  the Battery Power, saving the coils and SSIGNCO.
        MY MOST POPULAR SOLID STATE UNIT! (Coil Also needed)

____Hi Tension Leads  with 10K resistor & Clips (HTRC) For R/C                             @ $   6.00

____ Hi Tension Leads (No Resistor)  (HTFF) Free Flight & U-Control                       @ $  4.50
     
____3/8” Rubber Bands for DT    (Bag of 100)                                                               @ $  1.25

____1/4” X 3’ Latex Tubing for bladders    Back in Stock!                                   @ $  2.50

____Dethermalizer Fuse (3/16” X  33’)  (English Type)                                                @ $ 15.50

____ Fuse Lighter, (Battery powered & included)  (see photo on back)                         @  $ 6.50
Help with a coil and condenser set-up.... Photo310


____Polyspan Covering Material,  NOW 20” WIDE X 10’ LONG: Rolled or Folded   @ $16.00  

____Polyspan Special: Buy Three Rolls or Folded and get one roll FREE.Limited Special  @ $48.00
        NOTE:   Special Ends 9-30-2020

____Polyspan Instructional VHS Video or DVD   Choose    (40 Minutes)                    @ $ 20.00

*____ Polyspan Dye ( Can Be Used for Most Coverings Too!) 2 Oz. Bottle          *   @ $ 12.00 Added P&H might apply (heavy!)
          Red, Yellow, Blue, Orange & Black                                  NEW Prices                              for more than 2 bottles
*____Polyspan Fluorescent Dye ( 2 Oz) Yellow Or Orange                “                   *  @ $ 12.00 Added P&H might apply (Heavy!)

____Glue/Oil Dispensers (Perfect for Thin CA Applications, Etc.) .010 Dia. Tip       @ $  3.50

____Glue/Oil Dispensers (Perfect for Medium CA Applications, Etc.) .023 Dia. Tip  @ $  3.50                                    

____Silk Covering (K&S)  Orange  or  Green,  per sq. yd.                                            @ $14.50                                                              
       
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___Back in Stock!  ASTOP Rudder Adjuster, super light!  (See photo below)   @  $15.00                        
Help with a coil and condenser set-up.... Photo210



____GLASS SYRINGES FOR FILLING PACIFIERS AND FUEL TANKS
Help with a coil and condenser set-up.... Photo110

     
____10 ML          $ 14.00                                 ASTOP    15.00                   Fuse Lighter W/ Batteries  6.50
____20 ML          $ 15.00
____30 ML           $16.00
____50 ML          $ 19.00

       


                            Prices subject to change without notice!
SORRY, NO CREDIT CARDS
POSTAGE & HANDLING (USA)   $ 8.50  
PERSONAL CHECKS (USA), BANK CHECKS OR POSTAL MONEY ORDERS PAYABLE IN US FUNDS                                     (EXTRA P&H FOR FOREIGN ORDERS
PLEASE PUT PHONE# AND  EMAIL ADDRESS ON YOUR ORDER PLEASE!

We now Take PayPal! USE THIS ACCOUNT: samchampal@jetbroadband.com   Please add 5% to the total for PayPal orders.
This is what they charge me!

Thanks,
Larry Davidson


Thanks Van for the referral.
Email me for more info,  samchamp@jetbroadband.com
Larry Davidson
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Post  JohnRTSE on Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:16 pm

getback wrote:Cool You got a pic of the May engine ? I have still yet to run one of mine , my how time flys Too lol

Here is a pic of my two Rocket Victors and the May (on the bottom).

Enjoy!
John
Help with a coil and condenser set-up.... Rocket11
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Post  sosam117 on Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:34 pm

Here is another rely from the SAM Talk forum:

From: Bob Angel samrcflier@verizon.net
To: SAMTalk_Forum@yahoogroups.com

You can get all the information on ignition systems you'll ever need on the SAM web site at antiquemodeler.org.
http://www.antiquemodeler.org/

Click on "How to's - engines". You can find the original wiring diagram for just coil and condenser, or the more reliable modern transistorized systems, plus explanation of how a coil operates etc.

The simple old Rocket engine is usually one of the easiest to start and run, but if there's a problem, you can probably find the solution there also.

Bob Angel
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