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TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

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TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  balogh on Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:13 am

Having looked at the Speedy projects of Brad (1/2A Nut) with yearning eyes and recognizing that with my limited infrastructure and skills I would never be able to build my own customized speedy model, I took the simpler solution and ordered a beautiful RTF electric model called VooDoo, with the aim of converting it to glow.

The VooDoo is a 1st class, glass reinforced plastic product sold in Europe (designed and produced in Slovakia) , and originally an electric model with speeds up to 250km/h with 250 Watts electric motors (a bunch of youtube vids boast on that), I thought a TeeDee049 of 80W shaft power will also be able to carry it, if not at 250km/h but at least at decent speeds above 100km/h.

In any way, I renamed mine to TeeDeeVooDoo...

The datasheet is below, and I will appreciate Brad’s comments on what he predicts the TeeDee will achieve with this plane…



The package arrived in only 2 days from the German retailer and I started converting/strengthening the nose, by filling the recess in front of the firewall with 2-component epoxy, and glueing plywood doublers behind the firewall, to allow for the use of wood-screws...the original firewall for electric motors is recessed behind the nose and does not lend itself for a convenient glow engine application:


The firewall then was drilled to accommodate not only the TD049 R/C engine mount,  but a horseshoe backplate Black Lynx I just won on CEF…I would like to employ  most of my 049/050/051 COX engines of enough power in this plane..



The original  spacing of mount holes on the COX TeeDee engine mount top allow the mounting of the TeeDee and the horseshoe plate Black Lynx both, but the bottom holes on the horsehoe plate have different spacing than the COX TeeDEe mount so I had to add 2 more holes to the firewall at the bottom. These are at the bottom far right and left

For the TeeDee I also had to relocate one of the engine mount holes from 10 o’clock to 11 so as to allow entry for the throttle pushrod through to original hole at 10 O’clock.


I still have to install a throttle servo, the battery and receiver that I will probably place on delcro tapes glued to the fuse bottom,  as well as a switch (I will hate to drill holes into that beautiful fuselage), but all in all I expect the TeeDeeVooDoo to weigh around 320 grams empty (here 327 grams because of packing material on the switch and the servo) or 350 grams when my traditional ballon tank is filled with about 1 ounce of fuel.

Note that the vent opening made on the left front of the fuse  for cooling the electric motor comes in handy for exiting the fuel and filling lines from the ballon tank inside..



Here is the bird with both engine options I have converted it to:




I cannot wait for Spring to come and allow me to ride my bike to the field with the TeeDeeVooDoo packed in a backsack, to perform its maiden flight...I will keep you posted


Last edited by balogh on Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  MauricioB on Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:25 am

I like friend that adaptation of the model to glow, in addition the model is seen with very clean lines and surely it will be an arrow in the air.
Very good work András, I hope to see the model soon in action.
Do you have the link or more data of this model ?, I have a good option to keep in mind in a future project.
Thanks for sharing with us, a hug, Mauricio.- Beer Cheers
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  balogh on Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:27 am

Hi Mauricio,

thanks for your notes.

While these models are primarily sold in Europe, the German retailer will certainly ship it to you as well:

https://www.hoelleinshop.com/e-vendo.php?shop=hoellein_e&SessionId=&a=search&SearchStr=voodoo
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  balogh on Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:33 am

Looks like they ship the Voodoo to Argentina at around 33€ (the surcharge does not apply, at least they shipped to Hungary from Germany free, due to the value of the goods):

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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  MauricioB on Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:42 am

What a nice line of models, here I leave a link from the USA, maybe it can be useful also to another enthusiast!
https://www.soaringusa.com/VooDoo-Pylon-Racer.html

Your model is very beautiful András, with the Cox it will be a wonder! Thumbs Up Flying
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  balogh on Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:32 am

Yes, a bit more expensive in the US than in Europe where it is made....

Thanks for the greenie Mauricio !!!
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  getback on Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:56 am

Beautiful airplane , Just watched a fling video what i could see of it , man that thing's fast !! Bee watching for the Maiden . Shocked
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  balogh on Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:02 am

Thanks Eric,

I do not expect such high speeds with the TD049 as with the electric motor, but assume it will fly as fast as Brad's (1/2A Nut) similar speedy planes powered by TD-s. Somewhere in the 100-120 km/h range. I guess I can still handle that. My problem is the accessibility of the flying field that I cannot enter by car anymore, and weather is not good enough yet to ride there with my motorbike.

So the maiden flight should wait...hopefully will happen before it grows from a maiden into a granny.... lol!
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  1/2A Nut on Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:54 am

Hello András, great effort to get a fast plane in the air.

To help you lets compare some stats:

- TDVooDoo weighs 11.53 oz  perhaps a APC 4.5x4 will pull the weight and wing size ok.
With the very restrictive muffler type perhaps a APC 4.2x4 will give you a bit more speed.
What size prop do you have on it now looks like a ridged 5x4?
Wing span is 33 inches 109 sq. in.

- Lil Speedy weight is 6.2oz and flew 190 km/h. with a 4.1x4.1N prop.
Wing span is 16.75 inches / 66 sq. in.  

- NANO III is 9oz and flew 224 km/h with a 4x5N prop.
Wing span is 28 inches  / 87.5 sq. in

Best wishes on the maiden flight when the weather gets better!  RC Plane  
Did you add some right thrust for prop torque?

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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  balogh on Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:05 am

Thanks Brad,

I appreciate your input. I did not add any thrust as I thought the design of the airplane already considers that off-setting for the electric motor. The muffler I put on the TD is just to deflect the castor splashing from the engine and I understand may cost me 500-1000rpm. BTW I was relieved to test and find  the paintwork of the plane is nitro-proof.

I do not have an APC prop but plan to use my favorite COX, the 5x4 black sold by Bernie...I know this is flexing and changes the pitch but I have very good experience with this prop. Alternatively I have the stiff 5x3 COX props too. I hope these props and the TD049, maybe the Black Lynx as well, will pull the TD VooDoo quick enough to avoid stalling...It really has a very slender wing and may take high speeds to keep the bird afloat...
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  RknRusty on Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:33 am

If the scale in the picture is right, I think it's going to be a quick little bird. That would be 11-12 oz. in my part of the world. My oldest Baby Flite Streak isn't much lighter, and a Tee Dee .051 hauls it with authority. Be ready to experiment with different props so you get the most out of it. I really like that design, it looks fast just sitting on the table.
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  Marleysky on Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:31 pm

RknRusty wrote:If the scale in the picture is right, I think it's going to be a quick little bird. Be ready to experiment with different props so you get the most out of it.

I really like that design, it looks fast just sitting on the table.

Rusty

I like the design too. Looks almost like a copy of Brads Lil Speedy with the shape of the wings and tail feathers. Round Rolled tube fuse to. CopyCats! lol!
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  balogh on Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:37 pm

Thanks Rusty

I am still sruggling to stuff everything into its belly finding place for the throttle servo, battery, switch, receiver and similar avoiding interference with the aileron servos hanging down from the wing. But if one wants a sports car he should compromise on the luggage or wont carry the mother-in-law in the passenger seat conveniently pushed back ...
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  1/2A Nut on Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:46 pm

Sorta like the DART in size 31" wing span 106 sq. in.
It has hit 148 mph / 238 km/h with a .05 car engine tuned pipe.








Yes Marley, first flight back May 16, 2014:
Wing and tail feathers similar to the original 1st Lil Speedy ply rolled fuselage low wing with a TD .020 and .010







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Nice project. I did this a few years ago.

Post  woida on Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:25 pm

I did this a few years ago










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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  balogh on Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:29 pm

Thanks. What was your experience with the small 010 and the larger 049 engines? Are they powerful enough especially the 010 to drive the VooDoo?
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  1/2A Nut on Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:31 pm

It will barely climb with a TD .010 based on what I have done with that displacement.
2.8oz thrust tops with a stock prop, the next problem is the 1.25 pitch it is so low it will
be a slow crawl to glider height into the wind.

A TD .020 has just enough for reasonable motivation into the wind I would imagine the
power to weight would be a bit boring with a stock prop 5.4oz thrust with a good running engine.
2P will not do much for speed but can dive down wind to bring it up to 55 mph ish.

A cutout for the engine bay for the cylinder to peek out the top and a Norvel .074 or TD .09
is what going to move this plane out with authority. Could then use a spinner in it's proper place.
A car engine on a tuned pipe like what was done with the DART would for sure hit 135 ish.
Unsure without owning one with whats possible with a engine cutout.

I anticipate the TD .049 open exhaust perhaps 90 - 110mph with the right prop selection.
HQ Carbon mix 5x4.5 cut down and narrow to 4.5x4.5 would be my prop of choice for the first flight.
Would yield steady screaming rpm / great fuel draw and thrust for a good solid climb out.
Your Cox 5x4 will make for a good maiden prop watch out for the prop torque though.

Benched:
Cox TD RC .050 / HQ Carbon nylon mix 4x4.5 speed prop
Best static peak 23,821 / .113hp / 84w / 6.7oz thrust /102 mph
Cox High Comp Plug /aluminum carb body / pressure tap on muffler.

Benched:
Tee Dee RC .050 - All Carbon 4x4.5 speed prop.
Best static peak 27,051 / .164hp / 122w / 8.5oz thrust / 115 mph
Nelson plug / aluminum carb body / pressure tap on muffler.
Flown with a 4x5 carbon / nylon 139 mph. NANO III. Cool
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  balogh on Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:43 am

Thanks, Brad, very good analysis. When I first saw the VooDoo here on CEF one of our members introduced it as  converted for a 010...I had some doubts then on the power of an 010 being enough so I postponed my further  steps into this project.

Now that I have seen your Nano III with similar size and proportions flying so well I decided to invest into the VooDoo.

The cutout of engine compartment to match the engine mount dimensions of a  COX  09 or NV would practically reduce the fuel compartment to much less than 1 oz so I will stay with the 049 TeeDee whose engine mount is just the same diameter as the nose of the VooDoo. I trust it will achieve your estimated 90-110 mph or a bit less due the the muffler I added to the SPI engine.

The prop torque is an interesting issue. I assume this has been factored in in the geometry of the original design for electric motor, and I did not notice any offset angle on the recessed firewall for that, and the resin fill I added now makes the glow engine mount surface parallel with the original firewall of the electric motor. So if offsetting is needed it remains there with the resin fill, if not needed, it is also OK.

Once I read somewhere that the offsetting is needed not so much because of the prop torque (or rather, gyroscopic torque), but because the spinning air the CCW rotating prop blasts on the tail section of the fuselage and the stabilizer wants to turn the plane to the left - hence the firewall needing some offsetting angle to the right... This VooDoo has such a slender fuselage and small stabilizer surface that I think such moment from the air blast can be neglected?

On some of the RTF balsa models I built such offsetting was simply missing form the design, and the plane flew straight without any trimming required.


Anyway I will watch out and this is one reason I try first with a throttled RC engine so that if a launch needs to be aborted for further trim adjustment, I could do that with the engine throttled down instantly...
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  balogh on Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:57 pm

Job done. The TeeDeeVoodoo weighs 329 grams dry i.e. a tad less than 11 oz.


I managed to cram everything in the belly with the switch mounted on the fuselage back, and wait for Spring to come.

I proudly sent some pics to the German retailer to show the versatility of the VooDoo  and their brief answer was they do not like glow engines...I thought they could use some promo material to pull in more customers not only from the world of electric flyers but anyway they know it better..
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  woida on Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:21 pm

Hi there, My intention was to use all engines for the Voodoo from 0.010 up to the 0.15 Cox...

The 0.010 is strong enough for for a little lift, but you have to use the flaps and put it 3 mm down. And the Voodoo is in this configuration is light enough to use little thermals...

For landing I catch it in the air usually like a DLG. I think it is the slowest Voodoo you ever have seen...

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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  1/2A Nut on Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:57 pm

Woida do you have any video?
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  balogh on Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:08 am

balogh wrote:Job done. The TeeDeeVoodoo weighs 329 grams dry i.e. a tad less than 11 oz.


I managed to cram everything in the belly with the switch mounted on the fuselage back, and wait for Spring to come.

I proudly sent some pics to the German retailer to show the versatility of the VooDoo  and their brief answer was they do not like glow engines...I thought they could use some promo material to pull in more customers not only from the world of electric flyers but anyway they know it better..

By today the empty weight has grown to 350 grams on account of a 400mAh battery I bought recently and added to replace a 300mAh, and a 8mm silicone exhaust extender (that was tached and proven not to rob any more rpm than the COX exhaust muffler already robs..much larger internal diameter than the exhaust hole on the COX muffler), a bit larger balloon tank of 1,5 oz capacity, an aluminum fuel filter etc.....at 350 grams dry weight it still is lighter than the specs with electric motor and heavy LiPo battery stuff says to be between between 350-450 gramms...

A question to Brad (1/2A Nut) (I simply cannot send PM-s, and do not know why):
In one of your posts you said a HQ 5030 quadcopter prop may be an upgrade compared to the COX 5x3 and similar props when used on a TD049 or similar.

I just found such a HQ5030 and it has a very thin airfoil and weighs almost 1 gram less than my COX 5x4 black prop. I assume the thinner airfoil will mean less tangential drag and this translates into stronger axial thrust with the same engine shaft power...am I right? I will tach it to learn the empirical way, just ask your opinion on the expected improvement on rpm and thrust...

Thanks.
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  1/2A Nut on Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:57 am



Last edited by 1/2A Nut on Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:10 am; edited 3 times in total
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  balogh on Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:00 am

Thanks, Brad,

I can get hold of these quadcoptrer props in my neighborhood (some hobbyshops that survived sell them) but was just not sure if they are really THAT better than normal, IC engine props of comparable size?
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Re: TeeDeeVooDoo- my current project

Post  1/2A Nut on Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:02 am

I flew with the APC drone prop here is the vid:




AmpAbuser
Published on Feb 4, 2018

NANO III Cox Tee Dee .050 RC / 2nd test flight
Best pass down wind 27,780 rpm / 132 mph prop speed
TD RC .051 with stock muffler with a pressure tap.
NV set a tad rich with this being the second flight of the engine.
9oz RTF / 1oz fuel tank 6.04 minutes of total engine run time.
25% nitro / 20% oil 4x5 prop will make for best speed.
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