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Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

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Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

Post  Cox International on Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:04 pm

We have a.051 cylinder / piston set which is different than the regular TD ones.

Basically looks like a "Surestart" cylinder from the outside (2 exhaust slits each side - all equally wide) but inside porting is one large groove per side. "Flat" on top for wrech and no # on cylinder. And no, it is not a .051 Killer Bee or .051 Medallion NFFS cylinder
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Re: Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

Post  Admin on Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:26 pm

Hmm Huh...

You ruled out the NFFS and Killer Bee...

Let me think about it. Does a .051 TD piston fit in it?


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Re: Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

Post  Cox International on Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:40 pm

Admin wrote:Hmm Huh...

You ruled out the NFFS and Killer Bee...

Let me think about it. Does a .051 TD piston fit in it?


Yes, yes, it's an 051 SET.
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Re: Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

Post  Cox International on Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:56 pm

Some info:

Absolutely identical outside to .049 Surestart
Inside porting is like the older Bees ) one big groove per side
Piston has one "score" at the bottom of skirt
The set has excellent compression
Will not even penetrate a fraction of a mm into a .049 cylinder (obviously)
Jams with a .051 Killer Bee piston (KB cylinders also have two different size exhaust slits)
Works fine with .051 NFFS but .051 NFFS porting is Tee Dee style
"Flat" on top for wrench (latter year production)
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Re: Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

Post  ticomareado on Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:16 pm

Did it come from China?
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Re: Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

Post  Admin on Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:44 am

Cox International wrote:
Admin wrote:Hmm Huh...

You ruled out the NFFS and Killer Bee...

Let me think about it. Does a .051 TD piston fit in it?


Yes, yes, it's an 051 SET.

What I was meaning by asking is that from my understanding is that Killer Bee .051, TD .051, and NFFS .051 pistons are not interchangeable, even though they are all .051 pistons.

Was it in factory packaging? The packaging could help with placing a date and maybe trying to get an idea of what they had in mind.

There was a moment back in the early 80s when Cox was fitting slit cylinders on many engines (excluding TDs) in effort to keep flames from coming out of the exhaust ports. They probably even toyed with creating a Medallion .051 before the NFFS approached them.

If it appears to be from the early 90s, if could be related to the development of the NFFS Medallion.

Unfortunately without actual knowledge of a specific engine using the cylinder, it's all speculation as to why it exists.

Maybe Mark knows something.

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Re: Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

Post  Mark Boesen on Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:01 am

I'd contact Bob Smith(?) to verify NFFS, single port on each side doesn't seem right. I've never had a really great interest in anything made after mid seventies
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Re: Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

Post  GallopingGhostler on Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:08 am

Does the set eliminate SPI? Didn't in the late 1980's Cox also market a .051 Tee Dee R/C?
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Re: Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

Post  balogh on Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:19 am

The 050 TD RC really has a non- SPI cylinder but has 1 booster port milled in the bypass on each side. This may have been added to partially compensate performance loss due to the non-SPI porting. Some say the single booster makes the engine more powerful than oldstock 049 TD (no.4) cylinders having 2 boosters on each side because the single booster ads a swirl/spin to the charge that helps more efficient burning.
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Re: Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

Post  Cox International on Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:04 pm

ticomareado wrote:Did it come from China?

Very unlikely. It was included in a pile of engines and parts we received from a chap in Vancouver.
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Re: Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

Post  Cox International on Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:08 pm

Admin wrote:
Cox International wrote:
Admin wrote:Hmm Huh...

You ruled out the NFFS and Killer Bee...

Let me think about it. Does a .051 TD piston fit in it?


Yes, yes, it's an 051 SET.

What I was meaning by asking is that from my understanding is that Killer Bee .051, TD .051, and NFFS .051 pistons are not interchangeable, even though they are all .051 pistons.
This one definitely fits with a .051 Medallion piston.

Was it in factory packaging? The packaging could help with placing a date and maybe trying to get an idea of what they had in mind.
No, just loose and actually found a second set.

There was a moment back in the early 80s when Cox was fitting slit cylinders on many engines (excluding TDs) in effort to keep flames from coming out of the exhaust ports. They probably even toyed with creating a Medallion .051 before the NFFS approached them.
Possibly but then how does someone in Vancouver end up with two of them? We have handles 1,000's of cylinders and have never seen one; and obviously no one so far reading this thread.

If it appears to be from the early 90s, if could be related to the development of the NFFS Medallion.
Could be but see comment above.

Unfortunately without actual knowledge of a specific engine using the cylinder, it's all speculation as to why it exists.

Maybe Mark knows something.
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Re: Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

Post  Cox International on Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:10 pm

Mark Boesen wrote:I'd contact Bob Smith(?) to verify NFFS, single port on each side doesn't seem right. I've never had a really great interest in anything made  after mid seventies

The cylinder has single port per side and is basically a Black Widow cylinder. .051 Medallion has two ports per side, so it's not that one.
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Re: Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

Post  Cox International on Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:16 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:Does the set eliminate SPI? Didn't in the late 1980's Cox also market a .051 Tee Dee R/C?

There is no SPI but I believe that the 050RC has open ports and not slit-exhausts. Can't check before Monday as I am not at the office.

However, this is the chap that sent a dozen modified engines to us, such as these and am beginning to wonder if he opened up the cylinder himself. Will call him on Monday.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/372402521354

https://www.ebay.com/itm/392102678433

https://www.ebay.com/itm/392102023923

https://www.ebay.com/itm/372401349390


Last edited by Cox International on Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:17 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typos)
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Re: Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

Post  GallopingGhostler on Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:19 pm

Cox International wrote:There is no SPI but I believe that the 050RC has open ports and not slit-exhausts. Can't check before Monday as I am not at the office.

However, this is the chap that sent a dozen modified engines to us, such as these and am beginning to wonder if he opened up the cylinder himself. Will call him on Monday.

E-Bay: #14 - 049 Cox Tee Dee Experimental Hybrid Engine .049


E-Bay: #10 - 049 Custom Space Bug Black Widow Style Mix .049


E-Bay: #06 - 049 Custom Space Bug Tee Dee Style Mix .049


E-Bay: #05 - 049 Custom Cox Black Widow Tee Dee Style Mix .049

Certainly an interesting combination of engines.  Smoking Top one, side port is unique. Those type engines to include the 1963 A.C. Gilbert .074 & .11 and late 1950's Fox .09 Rocket were easy runners, but never known for being very powerful. .074 had the power of a Cox .049 Babe Bee. Larger .11 and Fox .09 were a very mild 1.5cc engine to say nonetheless.

My guess is that the Cox custom side port .049 is probably as powerful as a .020 Pee Wee.
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Re: Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

Post  ffkiwi on Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:03 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:
Cox International wrote:There is no SPI but I believe that the 050RC has open ports and not slit-exhausts. Can't check before Monday as I am not at the office.

However, this is the chap that sent a dozen modified engines to us, such as these and am beginning to wonder if he opened up the cylinder himself. Will call him on Monday.

E-Bay: #14 - 049 Cox Tee Dee Experimental Hybrid Engine .049


E-Bay: #10 - 049 Custom Space Bug Black Widow Style Mix .049


E-Bay: #06 - 049 Custom Space Bug Tee Dee Style Mix .049


E-Bay: #05 - 049 Custom Cox Black Widow Tee Dee Style Mix .049

Certainly an interesting combination of engines.  Smoking Top one, side port is unique. Those type engines to include the 1963 A.C. Gilbert .074 & .11 and late 1950's Fox .09 Rocket were easy runners, but never known for being very powerful. .074 had the power of a Cox .049 Babe Bee. Larger .11 and Fox .09 were a very mild 1.5cc engine to say nonetheless.

My guess is that the Cox custom side port .049 is probably as powerful as a .020 Pee Wee.

Actually sideport conversions of Coxes are by no means unique (though I personally question the logic as to why anyone would want to do it)-several have appeared on ebay over the years-though this is the first I've seen with the intake literally on one side-all the others have been at the rear.

ChrisM
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Re: Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

Post  Cox International on Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:03 pm

We called the previous owner of those cylinders and he said he got them that way but can't recall from where. Just find it odd that some chap in Canada ends up with two of them, we have never seen one of these and no one participating on this thread knows about them, and there are some very experienced Cox people on this forum Huh...

Oh well, perhaps great eBay candidates lol!
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Re: Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

Post  Jason_WI on Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:24 pm

I have one of those cylinders. I built it into a TD RC05. Not sure where I got it from or what it’s from. Too many engines to remember all the details.

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Re: Need help with an unusual .051 cylinder

Post  GallopingGhostler on Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:07 pm

Mark Boesen wrote:I'd contact Bob Smith(?) to verify NFFS, single port on each side doesn't seem right. I've never had a really great interest in anything made after mid seventies

All this talk perked my curiosity, got a Vought Corsair RTF product engine that similar to Bernie's odd .051 cylinder, .049 has dual ports with no additional boost port milled. Also didn't know same came with my RC Bee, reference

google.com coxenginecollection choosing-a-cylinder


Then the Sure Start cylinder is the hotter non-SPI twin slit cylinder / piston set.

So I'm guessing that the particular odd .051 cylinder is probably dated around the same time as these earlier twin slit production engines were done.
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