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Baby Ringmaster fever

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Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  rsv1cox on Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:14 pm

Wanting to participate in the annual "Brotherhood of the Ring" but not eager to rekit my Baby Ringmaster that I built in 1967 from a Sterling kit I decided to kit bash one of my own.

Got on outerzone and downloaded plans reportedly from a Sterling kit, however I see that the profile of the "canopy" is different as is provisions for a beam mount engine. Must be later plans. Wish I had saved my originals like I did most of my early plans.

Anyway, I don't want a built up wing due to time constraints and my shaky hands. I have a lot of SIG balsa including their airfoil wing stock. Wondering if I can effectively construct a wing out of it with extensions to duplicate the original? Duplicating the original fuselage will be difficult without disassembling the plane. Guess I will have to take measurements along the horizontal unless there is a better way.






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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  modelbuilder49 on Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:17 pm

rsv1cox wrote:.... Anyway, I don't want a built up wing due to time constraints and my shaky hands.  I have a lot of SIG balsa including their airfoil wing stock.  Wondering if I can effectively construct a wing out of it with extensions to duplicate the original? "....
You sure can Very Happy ! I did and it flies just fine! Oh, just for your info, I used those same plans and you can reshape the canopy as desired. I don't have a photo of my Baby Ringmaster with the Sig preshaped balsa wing but I did the exact same thing when I made my PT-19 for the International PT-19 day event that I've posted on this site recently. Very Happy
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  rsv1cox on Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:22 pm

Well, with no negative comments regarding using a SIG solid balsa airfoil wing on a Baby Ring, I'm starting this thing.

Seems good, with Mireille Mathieu blasting Val Colomba Bianca out of the stereo taking me back forty some years when I built most of my planes to her recordings I'm cutting balsa.

One small problem. I have no 1/8" balsa sheet, so I will have to glue two pieces of 1/16" together to make the trailing edge and sand to shape. Guess I will use Tite Bond weigh it down and hope for the best.

Fuselage should be no problem.




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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  rsv1cox on Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:24 pm

modelbuilder49 wrote:
rsv1cox wrote:.... Anyway, I don't want a built up wing due to time constraints and my shaky hands.  I have a lot of SIG balsa including their airfoil wing stock.  Wondering if I can effectively construct a wing out of it with extensions to duplicate the original? "....  
You sure can Very Happy !  I did and it flies just fine!  Oh, just for your info, I used those same plans and you can reshape the canopy as desired.  I don't have a photo of my Baby Ringmaster with the Sig preshaped balsa wing but I did the exact same thing when I made my PT-19 for the International PT-19 day event that I've posted on this site recently.  Very Happy  

Thanks,  That's reassuring.

I have the wing measurements at 4 1/2" at the tip, 5 1/2" at the root. 22" spread.

We posted simultaneously.  Smile\\Bob
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  944_Jim on Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:33 pm

Hi Bob,

Some where, some how, I got tracings/templates for the "Beginner's Baby RingMaster."

I can forward a PDF that prints full size in poster-mode if you want it. Shoot me a pm with your email address.

I want to say I found it on RCGroups. New222 may have been the one that posted it.

Ciao
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  NEW222 on Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:20 pm

944_Jim wrote:Hi Bob,

Some where, some how, I got tracings/templates for the "Beginner's Baby RingMaster."

I can forward a PDF that prints full size in poster-mode if you want it. Shoot me a pm with your email address.

I want to say I found it on RCGroups. New222 may have been the one that posted it.

Ciao

Yep, it was more than likely me. I trace mine and shared it. If you or anyone needs it just give me a holler and I too can dig it out.
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  rsv1cox on Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:03 am

944_Jim wrote:Hi Bob,

Some where, some how, I got tracings/templates for the "Beginner's Baby RingMaster."

I can forward a PDF that prints full size in poster-mode if you want it. Shoot me a pm with your email address.

I want to say I found it on RCGroups. New222 may have been the one that posted it.

Ciao

PM sent.

Cutting balsa and gluing stuff today.  Exciting. Smile

Thanks guys

Bob
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  Kim on Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:15 am

rsv1cox wrote:
944_Jim wrote:Hi Bob,

Some where, some how, I got tracings/templates for the "Beginner's Baby RingMaster."

I can forward a PDF that prints full size in poster-mode if you want it. Shoot me a pm with your email address.

I want to say I found it on RCGroups. New222 may have been the one that posted it.

Ciao

PM sent.

Cutting balsa and gluing stuff today.  Exciting. Smile

Thanks guys

Bob

GO-BOB-GO !!!!!!!
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  rsv1cox on Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:38 pm

Thanks Jim and Chancy, got both pages.

Some of the measurements are a little off from what I took from my BR probably due to it being rebuilt a few times.

Mine was built around 1967 so I think a #350 BB with either a thin or thick wall cylinder would be correct for that time period.
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  Oldenginerod on Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:40 pm

Pretty sure the Beginners Ring is pretty much a Baby Ring with a slab wing. Sounds about what you're looking for.
I have the Pat King plans saved somewhere.

Rod
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  NEW222 on Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:47 pm

rsv1cox wrote:Thanks Jim and Chancy, got both pages.  

Some of the measurements are a little off from what I took from my BR probably due to it being rebuilt a few times.  

Mine was built around 1967 so I think a #350 BB with either a thin or thick wall cylinder would be correct for that time period.  

I cannot remember if I wrote on the tracings or not, as I do not have the plans in front of me here, but the ones I traced out are from the Estes kits produced in teh very late 90's / early 2000, and this may be why the measurements are different. Glad you got them and enjoy them.
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  rsv1cox on Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:18 am

NEW222 wrote:
rsv1cox wrote:Thanks Jim and Chancy, got both pages.  

Some of the measurements are a little off from what I took from my BR probably due to it being rebuilt a few times.  

Mine was built around 1967 so I think a #350 BB with either a thin or thick wall cylinder would be correct for that time period.  

I cannot remember if I wrote on the tracings or not, as I do not have the plans in front of me here, but the ones I traced out are from the Estes kits produced in teh very late 90's / early 2000, and this may be why the measurements are different. Glad you got them and enjoy them.

It's going to work, saves me a lot of time guessing.  







I think I have enough hardware on hand to complete the build, but heading for Hobby Lobby this morning for some 1/8" balsa to make the tail.  Had to sandwich a couple of pieces of 1/16 together to make the back of the wing.  Knew I would find a use for that vice I posted about here sometime ago.  



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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:21 pm

Making progress.

Cut everything out on the band saw. Lazy. Traced the wing tips off my BR. Applied first coat of sanding sealer and knocked down with 320 grip. Applied a second coat.





Bob
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  NEW222 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:48 pm

Looking good!
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  rsv1cox on Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:57 am

NEW222 wrote:Looking good!

Thanks, you recognize the printing. Smile

I appreciate your tracings, an uncut up version rests in my archives.

Bob
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  getback on Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:21 am

Coming a long nicely Bob ! Are you going to rattle can it ? I see your using minwax sealer.
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  rsv1cox on Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:56 am

getback wrote:Coming a long nicely Bob ! Are you going to rattle can it ? I see your using minwax sealer.

Nope, I'm going to use up the last of my horded Lusterkote Missile Red on the fuselage and vertical stabilizer. Probably duplicate my original's scheme with yellow on the wing and horizontal stab and black on the rudder and elevator. IF..they haven't lost their fizz.

But I have cans of white that I may use........somewhere.




Bob
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  944_Jim on Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:44 pm

I'm curious to see where the CG is. Bob, will you be using a Babe Bee or a product engine? I left my nose where I can cut it down to suit the lighter engine, hoping to get the balance point away from dart-steady to more fun-factor (loops, inverted).

I plan on hanging a product engine and an external 1/3 ounce tank on mine. The wood is done in nice, smooth nitrate. I hope to rattle can it, give a few weeks to gas off, and then a light coat of poly. This one needs to be bright. I'm getting tired of olive drab and other military colors.
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  Ken Cook on Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:07 pm

Jim, between the rattle can paint and poly, your using finishes that essentially compound the weight. Seeing that you already have a nitrate base, using colored tissue followed by 2 coats of butyrate would be extremely beneficial to flying the way you described.
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  NEW222 on Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:29 pm

944_Jim wrote:I'm curious to see where the CG is. Bob, will you be using a Babe Bee or a product engine? I left my nose where I can cut it down to suit the lighter engine, hoping to get the balance point away from dart-steady to more fun-factor (loops, inverted).

I plan on hanging a product engine and an external 1/3 ounce tank on mine. The wood is done in nice, smooth nitrate. I hope to rattle can it, give a few weeks to gas off, and then a light coat of poly. This one needs to be bright. I'm getting tired of olive drab and other military colors.

All I can say about this design is the following, since I have HAD, and have a few on the go. When I built my first ones, I used rattlecan paint and primer, not knowing better. I just wanted a nice smooth finish. So, I 'laid the primer on' then sanded is smooth. No, not till I could see wood again, but just smooth where I could not see anymore woodgrain. I use a 'guide coat' on top of my primer, just simply a different contrasting color that disappears when you sand to see your highs and lows (I am a bodyman and it is what I use in the shop). After that was done, I again 'laid on teh paint' for a smooth finish. All factory hardware and suggested weight minus the landing gear and a Black Widow on the nose, it did fly well. Unfortunately this was in the days prior to me owning a scale. Hope this may help answer your question.
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  NEW222 on Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:34 pm

Ken Cook wrote:           Jim, between the rattle can paint and poly, your using finishes that essentially compound the weight.   Seeing that you already have a nitrate base, using colored tissue followed by 2 coats of butyrate would be extremely beneficial to flying the way you described.

I totally agree with this. I just redid a Skyray that was VERY tail heavy, requiring over an ounce up front to balance.... However this was due to me wanting a very nice smooth finish, and not yet having a computer, nor forums like these to teach me better. Now I know weight is everything. I always wanted to do a finish as you describe, but every time I attempt it, the hands keep grabbing the rattle cans and immediately after I remember this method.
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  944_Jim on Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:02 pm

Thanks all,
Ken, you may have changed the course of the build. I really just wanted to shoot a color on it, and seal it in. I'll look at some of the Christmas wrapping on hand...somewhere I remember having dots!

It only needs to be visible against the trees...I lost the P-40 a time or two (well, not counting the two times I wired my lines upside down-Ooof).
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  rsv1cox on Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:44 am

944_Jim wrote:I'm curious to see where the CG is. Bob, will you be using a Babe Bee or a product engine? I left my nose where I can cut it down to suit the lighter engine, hoping to get the balance point away from dart-steady to more fun-factor (loops, inverted).

I plan on hanging a product engine and an external 1/3 ounce tank on mine. The wood is done in nice, smooth nitrate. I hope to rattle can it, give a few weeks to gas off, and then a light coat of poly. This one needs to be bright. I'm getting tired of olive drab and other military colors.

I will be using a Babe Bee with the 4 cc tank.  More than enough air time to make me falling down dizzy.  

I'm following NEWS (Ok, 222 is it Chauncy, Chancy, or Chauncey?) Smile. roddie  has it one way, Jim, another -and me? Who knows. sketches to the T and hoping for the best.  Including the position of the bellcrank base.  

I like military colors too, the majority of my past builds.  But, on my Scientific/Black Hawk Cyclone I used the same Minwax sanding sealer base followed by coats of spray Lustrekote yellow and red to for me amazing results.  Colorful.





This morning, wondering what to use for the bellcrank base, I thought of a button and my Mothers old sewing kits.  Lost her at 104, she would have been 118 next week.  Opened a kit and first thing I saw was this furniture plug used to fill screw holes.  Perfect, might have to sand down the shank a bit, but somehow Mom's going to be flying around up there. Smile



Taking into account recommendations to leave a zero degree AOI I used a 1/2" aluminum bar to set it, although I did cheat a bit on the positive side.  





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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  rsv1cox on Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:22 pm

Quick question.

Lead out guide holes?  I guessed at 1 3/8".  Bell crank is 1 5/8".

I'm ready to paint this thing.



Never mind, I'm just going with 1 3/8". Just wondered if anyone had the spacing from the original plans.

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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

Post  Oldenginerod on Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:20 pm

The Pat King 21" span Beginners Ringmaster plan shows a 2 1/8" SIG 1/2A bellcrank through a 3/4" leadout guide. Guide is an inch back from the leading edge, centre of the bellcrank 1 1/2" back.

How can I attach PDF files? Otherwise Bob, if you want a copy of the plan PM me your email address & I'll shoot it off.

Rod.
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Re: Baby Ringmaster fever

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