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One man's junk.................

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One man's junk.................

Post  rsv1cox on Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:05 am

Anyone that reads my posts here knows that I enjoy buying damaged, dirty, or used up engines and airplanes and attempting to rebuild them.  This one is no exception.

ebay last night, $36 proxy bid with two snipers in the last ten seconds that brought it up to that maximum.

Some sort of plastic air frame with a Cox Silver Bee attached.  Should be a fun project this winter.  I did a Silver Bee earlier this year and posted about it here:

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t11733-cleaning-up-a-cox-silver-bee-with-a-w







I have SIG balsa airfoil and enough balsa to flesh out a fuselage.  Anyone know what airplane that might have been?  Cox Spitfire? I would like to duplicate it.

Probably not a Spitfire but the tail isn't too far off.





Bob
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  badbill on Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:45 am

Walker Firebaby?
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  GallopingGhostler on Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:06 am

I remember those in clear plastic package similar to the $0.10 gliders, $0.15 Skeeter rubber powered without wheels, and $0.25 Sleek Streak with wheels. It was too much money for an adolescent in the mid 1960's, getting money finding Coke bottles to recycle.
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  rsv1cox on Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:50 am

badbill wrote:Walker Firebaby?

I think your right!!



According to a discussion on RC Groups - Later models had plastic fuselages.

Someone hitched a S Bee on the nose.

Thanks BB

Bob
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  balogh on Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:48 am

Bob that thin wall cylinder Bee in the nose is a real antique one...I am curious to see how it revives and hope not too many parts will need replacement.
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  rsv1cox on Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:18 am

balogh wrote:Bob that thin wall cylinder Bee in the nose is a real antique one...I am curious to see how it revives and hope not too many parts will need replacement.

Yes, that thin wall is quite easy to bend out of shape (ask me how I know) if removed from the case cold. Best to heat it up and carefully extend the Cox tool all the way in. I wish they had made the business end of that tool the thickness of the exhaust ports.

The plans will help me shape the wing and horizontal stab.


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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  balogh on Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:32 am

Bob I removed the thin wall cylinder of a new old stock TD049 after a few heating (by a hairdrier) and cooling (submerged in ice cubes in the fridge) cycles and wrapping the fork on the COX wrench in a few layers of self-adhesive Scotch tape that to some extent helps prevent dents on the exhaust port edges. I  am not sure if this is the ultimate solution for a used engine with castor caked between the cylinder and crankcase threads but may be worth a try.
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  ticomareado on Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:46 am

What's really needed (for all kinds of screw off cylinder small engines-- especially Atwood/old style Wen Macs) is a separate cylinder removal tool of hard brass. I don't metal working tools or skills. I have also used some scraps of some type of exotic super-hard tropical wood on Cox wide slitters.
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  ticomareado on Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:54 am

A restored Firebaby would be more appropriately powered by a Cub, Wen-Mac, Baby Spitfire/Spitzy etc. A Silver Bee is way too much power and nose weight. If it must be a Cox, then go Space Bug Jr. The Silver Bee cleaned up nice and purty probably out to go in your collector's cabinet until you can piece together a Cox Spitfire.
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  Dave P. on Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:59 am

The way I remove stuck cylinders is to gently heat the case to approximately running temp with a small butane torch (the kind they sell in cigar shops) and immediately set an ice cube on the cylinder.  You've got about a thirty second window to secure the case and turn the cylinder.  

I use wooden blocks taped to a vise to hold the case.  Whenever possible I clamp it nose to tail.  I have a block with a shallow hole to hold the drive plate end.

Don't squeeze it, just barely tight enough to hold it.  The temperature differential usually does the trick pretty easily.  If not, one or two more tries should make it easy to break loose.  The same method works great on stuck heads too.

On TDs an Medallions, I heat the case from the back, avoiding pointing the flame at the plastic.  The case doesn't need to be anywhere near hot enough to hurt the carb body, just warm enough that you can't quite hold on to it.  Just like it is when running.
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  rsv1cox on Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:08 pm

Thanks guys,

Yes, the Silver Bee will be cleaned and probably retired.  Something else from Victor's list will be used instead.  Tool marks on the prop drive washer doesn't thrill me, but I have substitutes.  Tooth picks through the exhaust ports works great with no damage to the engine to unscrew the prop.  

Looking at my third picture, the wing looks to be flat not airfoil shaped either in fact or by the fuselage molding.  Maybe the original wing had an airfoil shape sweated into it.  Stiff flat 1/8" hard balsa a substitute perhaps?  

Fuselage is pretty bad especially around the tail section.  Plastic putty or balsa inserts should fix it.  Gives me a chance to try a red plastic paint before using it on the Cox Mercedes.

Bob

Edit add:

These must have come in variations.  From ebay ads, different from mine.  Maybe Firebaby and Firebaby Jr.



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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  ticomareado on Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:18 pm

Firebaby Jr. is a smaller plane for Pee Wee .020s (and maybe in somebody's dream a Cub .024). The regular Firebaby came in two iterations-- balsa fuselage and later plastic fuselage. And yes, the wing had a pre-steamed airfoil and dihedral in it that most likely would disappear with age and fuel soakings. I believe it was actually an AJ Hornet wing with different graphics. I kinda maybe sort of believe that the last box art depictions/ads of the plane showed a Baby Bee on the nose.
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  ticomareado on Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:38 pm

Also worth noting:

Jim Walker (at least while he was still alive) probably never wanted a Cox product to be bolted on to one of his products.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3150677-The-father-of-u-control
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  Marleysky on Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:52 pm

Looks kinda, sorta like Victor Stanzel design with the siloutte of the pilot.
But I can’t find a 049 powered version.

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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  Marleysky on Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:12 pm

Here it is!  Late model FireBaby with a Cox BabeBee?  

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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  rsv1cox on Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:08 pm

I think you nailed it Rene, right down to the wheels. Won't I have fun replicating that cowl....

Thanks for that link Victor, interesting reading over there. You must have been brought up in a hobby shop with your knowledge of the hobby.

Bob
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  ticomareado on Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:15 pm

Toys, hobbies and crafts. Attended first NY Toy Show while in fourth grade. (got special absence permission from school) First Chicago Hobby show at age 16. Dad started out in early 50s as a sales rep. for Kramer Brothers Hobby Distributors of Baltimore. (Life Like Products)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-Like
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  Oldenginerod on Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:20 pm

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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  ticomareado on Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:06 pm

And when you comparatively analyze a Firebaby in terms of retail price and cost to manufacture in 1970 compared to say a Goldberg Lil' Wizard or any number of Scientific hollow log kits (all in $3.00 to $4.00 retail range) at the same time it really is clear that AJ was making a whole lot more gross profit on a Firebaby than was being made on most of the other competitors all balsa "easy build" 1/2A kits of the same time. The only disadvantage AJ had with the Firebaby was freight from west coast and more air inside the box. The components themselves were far cheaper to manufacture.
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  GallopingGhostler on Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:11 pm

ticomareado wrote:The only disadvantage AJ had with the Firebaby was freight from west coast and more air inside the box. The components themselves were far cheaper to manufacture.

I do recall such, may be the Jr. 1/4-A .020 version at the A&P grocery store in Biloxi, Mississippi. It was hung in their rotating toys rack. Came with a plastic red profile fuselage and wing similar to the gliders in red and yellow. It was in a cellophane bag similar to the North Pacific (NP) gliders. I guess to reduce costs of boxing went to a different packaging scheme. But at $0.10 for an NP glider, as a 12 YO I was looking for the most bang for the buck, bought scads of those along with $0.15 Skeeters and $0.25 Sleek Streaks.
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  Dave P. on Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:35 pm

Let's see. Two Pixie Sticks or a Sleek Streak.  No contest in my world.
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  NEW222 on Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:48 pm

Give me a few minutes Bob, and I will take a look at something here thay MAY help you out....
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  rsv1cox on Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:30 am

Thanks to Chancey's PDF of the Fire Baby I was able to rough out the wing and horizontal stab/elevator this morning. I cleaned the fuselage last week using warm crock-pot A/F brushed on. Really worked, loosened/removed all the old over-glue and cleaned up the castor residue.

Tail is a disaster. I don't want to, but think I will shave it off and replace with balsa or sheet plastic. No big deal here. Just getting it ready to "fly" up and probably quickly down. One and done a see-ya flight.

Substituting a 4cc thin wall vice the silver bee.





Funny, the silver bee has 1/4 clearly etched on the case.
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  ticomareado on Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:51 am

The 1/4 etching is interesting. I have a few Baby Bee cases that have sort of Etch-A-Sketch looking doodleings on the sides of the cases. Maybe some of the machine operators were bored and were playing their version of "Kilroy Was Here". If they were still making them in Santa Anna today, no telling what sort of gang-banger doodleings would be turning up on them.
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Re: One man's junk.................

Post  MauricioB on Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:34 am

rsv1cox wrote:Thanks to Chancey's PDF of the Fire Baby I was able to rough out the wing and horizontal stab/elevator this morning.  I cleaned the fuselage last week using warm crock-pot A/F brushed on.  Really worked, loosened/removed all the old over-glue and cleaned up the castor residue.  

Tail is a disaster.  I don't want to, but think I will shave it off and replace with balsa or sheet plastic.  No big deal here.  Just getting it ready to "fly" up and probably quickly down.  One and done a see-ya flight.  

Substituting a 4cc thin wall vice the silver bee.  





Funny, the silver bee has 1/4 clearly etched on the case.
 

Bob appreciated all your dedication to the restoration of different pieces.
It only occurs to me to comment, for the part of the tail and plastic parts ... that such a service with a 3D printer that can give you a hand? ... I think it would be ideal .... for the rest the wood is what is going very well! ... just an opinion! Thumbs Up
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Re: One man's junk.................

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