Re: Just curious..Cox burned engines

rsv1cox Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:18 am

Cribbs74 wrote:BTW, I mentioned it elsewhere, but the listed .010 engines are actually TD .020’s. The center post on the heads are dead giveaway.

Ron

Ron, are you saying that these are .020's?

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There were two other auctions by the same seller featuring these heat damaged engines. I didn't pay much attention to either just the three .049's that I bought. I believe he described one lot as .010's the other as .020's. The metal tanked .020's are easily identified, but the others (pictured) sure look like .010's to me.

And DrCox, is the one you pictured from this auction?

And, Jason, that's the way I clean heads, only I chuck them up in a drill press using the contact post, works well. For rusty cylinders I wrap a dowel with a cloth jam it in the cylinder and sand blast it, then reblue.

balogh Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:03 am

Poor lil things, those burnt 010-s, I can only hope the cleaning and revamping will be successful….

GallopingGhostler Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Jason_WI wrote:As long as there isn’t any pitting in the cylinder it should run.

Depends where pitting is and the extent of pitting. My K&B .35 Stallion's pitting was in the upper cylinder area of the compression chamber for combustion.

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As a result, there was no blow by to the exhaust and intake ports and compression was excellent. I like Ron's idea of using Evapo-Rust, which will remove the crusty stuff back to bare metal. Then what is left can be dealt with. May not even need a lathe, fine steel wool might suffice.

It is on an as case base situation, so it will be interesting after rust removal to see whether the situation is salvageable or not.

DrCox Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:48 pm

rsv1cox wrote:And DrCox, is the one you pictured from this auction?

At first I thought the .010 was. I also purchased a toast .020 TD from the same seller. Definitely not as bad as the burned ones, yet still somewhat challenging.

KariFS Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:09 pm

rsv1cox wrote:
Cribbs74 wrote:BTW, I mentioned it elsewhere, but the listed .010 engines are actually TD .020’s. The center post on the heads are dead giveaway.

Ron

Ron, are you saying that these are .020's?

There were two other auctions by the same seller featuring these heat damaged engines. I didn't pay much attention to either just the three .049's that I bought. I believe he described one lot as .010's the other as .020's. The metal tanked .020's are easily identified, but the others (pictured) sure look like .010's to me.

And DrCox, is the one you pictured from this auction?

And, Jason, that's the way I clean heads, only I chuck them up in a drill press using the contact post, works well. For rusty cylinders I wrap a dowel with a cloth jam it in the cylinder and sand blast it, then reblue.

The littlest Tee Dees are hard to identify if there is no size reference in the picture. But there is one tell-tale that is pretty obvious when you realize it. I didn’t realize it, it was pointed out to me. In the picture below you can see that in the .010 the collet retainer nut is about equal in length to the thickness of the prop drive plate, whereas the length of the collet is about twice the thickness of the prop plate of the .020.

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Edit to add: looks like the engines in the auction pic are .010s.

DrCox Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:16 pm

KariFS wrote:
The littlest Tee Dees are hard to identify if there is no size reference in the picture. But there is one tell-tale that is pretty obvious when you realize it. I didn’t realize it, it was pointed out to me. In the picture you can see that in the .010 the collet retainer nut is about equal in length to the thickness of the prop drive plate, whereas the length of the collet is about twice the thickness of the prop plate of the .020.

Great info!!! Thanks.

getback Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:32 am

Yes thinks for clearing that up Kari , i thought Ron had said it was the glow that was difft. but i can't see it , witch don't mean alot but is good to know . Small Cox Logo

rsv1cox Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:14 am

A two day soak in 50/50 kerosene and Marvel Mystery oil yielded cleaner engines especially the "plastic" and anodized parts but so far has done little for the rust.

Thought I would try to loosen the cylinder head but no go with just moderate pressure, so I heated things up a little. I happened to be on the phone with my son at the time and mentioned the flash point of kerosene so he looked it up, around 450 degrees no open flame. Had the heater set at 225 so I'm safe.

Let things cook for an hour or so and was able to remove the needle from the TD and all the prop screws. Attempted once again to remove the head (not enough room for a second cox wrench through the ports) and with heat the whole top end loosened from the case. The piston on the Medallion was free, the TD's piston moved with the cylinder so I didn't go further. Will get some Evapro-Rust first and do more soaking.

No A/F crock pot for these, as mentioned it leaches the color out of the plastic and thins the anodizing. But both appear to be unaffected by this mix.

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Bob

ticomareado Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:21 pm

I'm betting maximum salvage/restoration value out of this.

ticomareado Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:03 pm

Do NOT stick a steel anything through the ports.

rsv1cox Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:44 pm

ticomareado wrote:Do NOT stick a steel anything through the ports.

Got a better way? You mean around the ports, right?

I think the TD has a relieved top cylinder for the later Cox wrench, could be wrong about that. Hesitant with the thin wall anyway. Long way away from that encounter. Lot's of heat, cold, penetrating oil first.

I did determine that my first TW Silver Bee's cylinder is twisted, not burred. Don't know if I did it or it was that way when I got it. I bet I have taken 50+ of these cylinders off the cases without incident. But these burned up engines are a special case.

Bob

Jason_WI Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:34 pm

I have has good lick heating the cylinder up with a micro torch slowly and not too hot. Extinguish the torch then hit the glow head with cold spray used for electronic circuit debugging. The cold spray is -60F and way better than an ice cube. I have had glow heads stuck so tight that just heat could not free them. One hit with the cold spray and the head is easily removed.

YOU MUST EXTINGUISH ANY AND ALL FLAMES PRIOR TO USING THE COLD SPRAY. COMBUSTION OF THE COLD SPRAY GAS WITH A FLAME RELEASES HYDROFLUORIC AND HYDROCHLORIC ACID GAS!!!!

rsv1cox Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:11 pm

Jason_WI wrote:I have has good lick heating the cylinder up with a micro torch slowly and not too hot. Extinguish the torch then hit the glow head with cold spray used for electronic circuit debugging. The cold spray is -60F and way better than an ice cube. I have had glow heads stuck so tight that just heat could not free them. One hit with the cold spray and the head is easily removed.

YOU MUST EXTINGUISH ANY AND ALL FLAMES PRIOR TO USING THE COLD SPRAY. COMBUSTION OF THE COLD SPRAY GAS WITH A FLAME RELEASES HYDROFLUORIC AND HYDROCHLORIC ACID GAS!!!!

Thanks Jason, I have actually done that, only just out of a crock pot boil while hot hitting the head with a spray of RemOil. Did the trick too. But I have something similar CLR circuit cleaner and will try your method.

Bob

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