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Another proposed design by Roddie

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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  roddie on Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:49 pm

NEW222 wrote:I like that idead of putting the weight in teh wing. I do similar, but instead use 5 minute epoxy. I didn't think that filler would be strng enough and did not want it to fall out. Now after seeing yours, I am now going to change my ways.....

Chancey.. I understand your concerns. I'm not sure if the wood-filler will hold-up either. It doesn't seem that much stronger than the wall-board/joint-compound that you mentioned using for a filler. Aside from the colour, it may be the same; chemically.

I knew that I'd want to sand any filler flush with the wing.. and that is working-out nicely. As far as the filler-material fracturing is concerned.. I had a thought. Apply sm. round iron-on patches top/bottom prior to finishing. Scuff-sand the patches with fine abrasive to de-gloss.. and resume the sealing/priming process.

Epoxies and CA/instant-glues are convenient.. but I'm learning that you need to apply them where you won't have to SAND the surrounding surface.. (unless it's steel.. Laughing  )

Here are the top/bottom wing-surfaces after sanding the "DAP" wood-filler flush with the 1/8" balsa sheet-wing.

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 Outboa20
Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 Outboa21

You'd never know that there's a steel flat-washer inside that wing. Maybe I need my head examined for going to these lengths.. but that's another story..
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  rsv1cox on Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:25 pm

That's a good looking fix roddie and should hold, especially after you get it sealed and painted.

Heck, so many of my (and others here) planes have spackling filling crevasses and never had a problem coming loose after many years.

My latest Firebaby clone has spackling compound around the grooved in hinges and I'm not worried about it not holding. I think spackling would have worked just as well and might have been lighter. But, heavier is what you were looking for there.

Bob
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  roddie on Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:45 pm

rsv1cox wrote:That's a good looking fix roddie and should hold, especially after you get it sealed and painted.

Heck, so many of my (and others here) planes have spackling filling crevasses and never had a problem coming loose after many years.

My latest Firebaby clone has spackling compound around the grooved in hinges and I'm not worried about it not holding. I think spackling would have worked just as well and might have been lighter.  But, heavier is what you were looking for there.

Bob

Thanks for your words Robert. Smile I have used spackle-filler. I thought that the wood-filler would be a little tougher for this application.. but it sands-out quite easily.

I will still apply iron-on patches top/bottom.. which will give me peace of mind. If the tip-weight comes-loose and falls-out during a flight, it would likely cause control-issues.
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Thinking Just some thoughts..

Post  roddie on Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:59 pm

I often question my aero-modelling methods. Those of you who know me.. would likely describe me as scatterbrained. That's ok.. because I know that I am. I am very thankful for all of my friends "here" who support my efforts.
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  Ken Cook on Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:56 pm

Rest assured that if your tip weight falls out, it's not going to cause a loss of control. If it comes out during flight it will almost be unrecognized until the power cuts and your landing where the inboard tip may drop slightly on glide. I have had models where I didn't even use any tip weight. It was removed when I found the outboard wing hinging on the lines due to too much. Were talking 4 grams here not ounces. I'm not saying to forego tip weight, I'm just stating that when one uses Spectra or the likes of, less tip weight is needed.
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  roddie on Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:14 pm

Ken Cook wrote:        Rest assured that if your tip weight falls out, it's not going to cause a loss of control. If it comes out during flight it will almost be unrecognized until the power cuts and your landing where the inboard tip may drop slightly on glide. I have had models where I didn't even use any tip weight. It was removed when I found the outboard wing hinging on the lines due to too much. Were talking 4 grams here not ounces. I'm not saying to forego tip weight, I'm just stating that when one uses Spectra or the likes of, less tip weight is needed.

Good to know.. and "thank you" Ken. I'm currently trying to work-out a balloon-tank for the "external-tank" variation of this model. I found some fuel-line with a .075" inside diameter. It's a nice snug fit on the engines' NVA. I will plumb the entire balloon tank using this tubing. I think that a balloon-tank will be easier to adapt to this airframe, than a hard-tank. We shall see....
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  roddie on Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:13 am

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 20190336
Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 20190337

The model looks tail-heavy with the Product-engine configuration.. I have a possible fix... but we'll have to wait, to see if it will work...
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  roddie on Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:41 pm

If this airplane turns-out to be slightly (and I mean only slightly..) tail-heavy with the product-engine configuration.. I may be able to balance it by using a Cox "Super Stunter" spinner-nut. I scored x2 of them (NOS) from a LHS that went out of business a few years ago.

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 Cox_su10
Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 Cox_su11

weight in ounces..

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 Cox_su12

weight in grams..

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 Cox_su13

I think that I have a balloon-tank capsule/mount-system worked-out... stay tuned
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  944_Jim on Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:47 pm

Roddie,

I dig the wooden wheels on this one! Where did you get them? How heavy are they?

TIA
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  Mike1484 on Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:58 pm

Roddie , you could bend the landing gear forward a bit . It would track better and help the balance .

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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:16 am

roddie wrote:Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 20190336
Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 20190337

The model looks tail-heavy with the Product-engine configuration.. I have a possible fix... but we'll have to wait, to see if it will work...

Not sure what happened Roddie but my last post vanished.
What I said was, how come you're using the eraser end of the pencils to balance the plane on? I would have thought that the pointy end would give a more accurate result because the eraser has a relitively flat end and may support the plane while slightly off balance. It may only be a fraction of an inch, but it would definitely make a difference.
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  roddie on Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:37 pm

944_Jim wrote:Roddie,

I dig the wooden wheels on this one! Where did you get them? How heavy are they?

TIA

Jim, the wheels were sourced from a local craft-shop called "Wood items and More" in Smithfield, RI.

http://www.wooditemsandmore.com/

The wheels are very lightweight. One "pair" weighs .05 oz. (2gr.) My scale wouldn't register when attempting to weigh a single wheel. Their size is 1.125" x .190" and the hubs are pre-drilled on-center for a .062" axle. I think that they are made of basswood or poplar.

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 Wood_i10
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  roddie on Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:40 pm

Mike1484 wrote:Roddie , you could bend the landing gear forward a bit . It would track better and help the balance .

         Mike1484

Hey Mike, Thanks for that advice! Sometimes I forget about these things. As I mentioned above to Jim; those wheels are super-light. I could go with a heavier wheel too.. If I had to.
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  roddie on Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:09 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:

Not sure what happened Roddie but my last post vanished.
What I said was, how come you're using the eraser end of the pencils to balance the plane on?  I would have thought that the pointy end would give a more accurate result because the eraser has a relitively flat end and may support the plane while slightly off balance.  It may only be a fraction of an inch, but it would definitely make a difference.

Hey Rod, yea.. it's not a very accurate assessment. I drilled the holes in the base larger to fit the pencils "point-facing-up"..

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 20190338
Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 20190339

Still not a very accurate way to do it.. but it seems to balance between 1.312" and 1.375" back from the wings' leading edge.
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  944_Jim on Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:31 pm

roddie wrote:

Jim, the wheels were sourced from a local craft-shop called "Wood items and More" in Smithfield, RI.

http://www.wooditemsandmore.com/


Hi Roddie,
I checked the website...no wheels, rims, or tires found. How much for how many in a bag?
I may just direct-call them.
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  roddie on Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:01 pm

944_Jim wrote:
roddie wrote:

Jim, the wheels were sourced from a local craft-shop called "Wood items and More" in Smithfield, RI.

http://www.wooditemsandmore.com/


Hi Roddie,
I checked the website...no wheels, rims, or tires found. How much for how many in a bag?
I may just direct-call them.
They weren't much $$ Jim. At the "most".. they were $.25/ea. I was in that locale a week ago.. but they're closed on Mondays.. DAMMIT! I was going to grab a handful more.. because they're really nice little 1/4A or 1/2A model-airplane wheels for the money.

Here's a photo of the craft-stores' business card. The "husband" is the one with the millwork business.. and does custom laser-cutting; which may be another avenue to explore.. Eyebrows

I would call and talk to "Maureen". Describe the wheels to her.. and maybe she will fulfill a mail-order for you. Maybe eMail her with the photos that I attached in reply to your query..

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 Wood_i11
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  944_Jim on Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:59 pm

Thanks Roddy,
I got their email address from the website.

I sent the pictures and description asking if they can sell them mail-order.

Now I'm waiting fir a response.
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  roddie on Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:05 pm

944_Jim wrote:Thanks Roddy,
I got their email address from the website.

I sent the pictures and description asking if they can sell them mail-order.

Now I'm waiting fir a response.

Jim, If the store won't (or can't) meet your needs, PM me.. and we'll work something out. I still have some of those wheels that I haven't used.
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  944_Jim on Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:43 pm

Roddie,

I appreciate your offer.

Ms. Maureen emailed back saying she will check into this April 2nd. So I patiently wait while considering what model will get these wheels, and how many do I want to keep in stock. I think 4 or 5 pair would get me through a few planes!

If I had to scrounge from your stash, two would have a plane selected...I wouldn't want to build up my stash by robbing yours. Now if you go to this store regularly, then maybe we could come up with Plan B.

Thanks.
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  KariFS on Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:36 pm

Jim, if ms. Maureen can’t help you with this, you can get that type of wheels on eBay and/or Amazon as well as craft stores. Just Google ”wooden toy wheels”, should get plenty of possibilities.

I got a few pairs from a hobby store, sadly that store was closed as the owner retired Sad
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  roddie on Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:10 pm

944_Jim wrote:Roddie,

I appreciate your offer.

Ms. Maureen emailed back saying she will check into this April 2nd. So I patiently wait while considering what model will get these wheels, and how many do I want to keep in stock. I think 4 or 5 pair would get me through a few planes!

If I had to scrounge from your stash, two would have a plane selected...I wouldn't want to build up my stash by robbing yours. Now if you go to this store regularly, then maybe we could come up with Plan B.

Thanks.

Keep me informed Jim. I've mentioned several times in various threads; the way I feel about model airplanes having landing-gear. Any model that resembles a scale airplane should have gear.. IMHO. That said; I do have a few control-line combat ships which would have no need for any sort of landing gear. Those models are hand-launched by a pit-man.. and the matches generally flown over a grass field. Landing a combat airplane happens if you're lucky enough to survive the match... Eyebrows

I plan on buying more of those wheels Jim.. so if you don't have any luck.. I'll make sure that you get enough to build a few models. I'll also check on other sizes.. but any diameter larger than 1.5" and you'd probably want a wheel/tire combo with some shock-absorbing properties. If you're flying an IC engine powered model; the wheel/tire materials need to resist the fuel-exposure.. so that's something to consider. With the growing popularity of electric-flight; it's getting tougher to find/source aero-modelling materials that are resistant to the fuels that we use.

The electric-flight modelers don't have to be concerned about such things.. but our model-airplanes are powered by real IC engines.. just like real airplanes. We get extra points for that........... Smile
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  roddie on Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:32 pm

There was decent weather for spray-painting outdoors last weekend here in Rhode Island. A little breezy.. but clear and temps between 60-70 degrees F. Just to recap; I had previously bought "Krylon" brand Automotive rattle-can/sandable-primer (white) and "Krylon" brand "Automotive" rattle-can/acrylic enamel (gloss-white) to establish the white base-color for this airplane.

I sprayed two heavy primer-coats about 20 min. apart.. followed by sanding with 320 grit paper and filled a few dings with vinyl-spackling for finishing the following day. The next morning I sanded/prepped for the white acrylic base-color coats.

I laid the base-coats on heavy.. and will pay a penalty for that.

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 20190421

The model now weighs over 4oz. less any of its' hdwe.

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 Base-c11

The finish is like glass.. which is nice.. but there's still some graphics to apply. I should have sprayed a flat-white base after sanding the primer.

I'm not going to stress-out over it.. but I do need to trim some weight rearward of the CG. I had fabricated a 1/16" dia. music-wire pushrod for the elevator. That's a HEAVY piece of hdwe. for a smaller 1/2A C/L model. My larger 1/2A models can get-away with it.. but not this model.

The CG was already further-forward than I would have liked.. so I decided to fabricate a carbon-fiber pushrod to check the weight-savings.

Here's the weight of the original .062" dia. music-wire elevator-pushrod. Its' length is 8.093"

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 20190423

I had purchased some .060" diameter carbon-fiber rod a few years ago.. that I thought might work for this application.

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 20190424

I needed to measure/fabricate "ends" for the CF rod to "mate-up" to the existing hardware. I had some aluminum tubing that I chose to serve as a coupling for the adjustable-end of the rod. The other-end had a similar (previously-made) aluminum-tube coupling with a short 1/16" music-wire "Z-bend" which would connect directly to the bellcrank.

I cut another short length of aluminum tubing and tapped 2-56 threads into it.

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 20190425
Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 20190426

This new control-rod weighs a LOT less than the solid-steel music-wire one does. It will help to keep this model balanced when I try to run a Cox .049 "product-engine" (external fuel tank..)

Here's what the "scale" says...

Music-Wire control-rod "ounces"....

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 20190427

Music-Wire control-rod "grams"....

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 20190428

Carbon Fiber control-rod "ounces"....

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 20190429

Carbon Fiber control-rod "grams"....

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 20190431

This should help to balance the model for flight. We shall see... Neutral
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  rsv1cox on Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:13 am

I admire your micro detail approach to modeling roddie,

Looks like the new shed is serving double duty as a painting aid.

Where are you finding automotive Krylon (my go-to paint)? The only Kryon I can find is this off-the-shelf stuff. I'm really interested in the primer.

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 Fokker18

BTW, the newer Krylon paint works great on plastics too, (mentioned on the label) than the older Krylon.

Bob
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  roddie on Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:43 pm

rsv1cox wrote:I admire your micro detail approach to modeling roddie,

Looks like the new shed is serving double duty as a painting aid.

Where are you finding automotive Krylon (my go-to paint)?  The only Kryon I can find is this off-the-shelf stuff.  I'm really interested in the primer.

Bob

Hi Robert! I've always enjoyed small models.. and the challenges that come with them; airplanes especially.

Yes.. the sheds' double-door frame worked out well.. and there was less turbulence than when I was spraying the primer-coats below the deck-framing.

I found the Krylon Automotive paint at my local Walmart.. in the automotive department. I often check to see what's available for "high-heat" (engine) paint.. and happened to notice the white sandable-primer and white gloss-acrylic amongst the general automotive paint-offerings.

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 Krylon13
Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 Krylon14

UPC's

Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 Krylon12
Another proposed design by Roddie - Page 6 Krylon11
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Thinking Re: Another proposed design by Roddie

Post  NEW222 on Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:08 pm

Good Job. Coming along quickly. I am at a standstill here due to the lovely weather!
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