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Post  NEW222 on Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:38 pm

Hi all. So I mentioned I would start a thread and here it is. So a couple of weeks ago, I came into posession of a Fox .15x engine. However I did not have a home for it at teh exact time. However I had a Platter with an Enya III .09 on it and it was actually called the Platter .15, and I was either going to swap engines or just build another. Then I saw mention of a Testors Ambush .15 to which I located plans. While all this was going on, I also needed lines for flying. Nothing locally here and mail order was my best option. But I reached out to a member of my CL club to ask if anyone in the club made lines with bulk spools. As luck would have it, he did himself, and said he would cut me off some .012 to make a 52' set. I went over to his place the next evening to pick them up. While there talking I made mention of why I needed the lines. I then told him I had the Platter and was probably going to build an Ambush .15 for the Fox. He started telling me of all the planes that would be good for the Fox. But I wanted cheap and easy as I am pretty confident that it will be getting repairs...... I would one day like a nice full fuselage plane, but for now I like profiles. Anyways as I was about to walk out the door he asked if I would be interested in a Ringmaster Jr.. Well, does a bear s%#t in the woods? Heck yeah, I was interested. It was given to him by another older club member some time back and it needed some repairs I was told. He had already repaired/rebuilt the fuselage, and made a set of wing ribs for it he had told me. He went and got it and handed it to me. All he said is that he wants to see it built. I asked what he wanted but he just said it was given to him and he would not be building it with teh 15 other planes currently on the go he had..... Anyways, what started with just looking for lines ended up being me buying lines and getting a kit!

When I got home, I dissected the box to look at everything. I had to make the missing rudder and front of the fin. One wing rib was missing from the stack he made so I mad that. Wingtips, gussets, and bellcrank mount were also missing but am in process of making those later this evening. I plan on starthing to build in the next week or so when I finish up some other loose ends here. The last of the things missing were the center sheeting and 3/16' square spars and LE. I picked up teh replacement wood today so I now have everything here but the time. I will update this as I go along.

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Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:23 pm

Congratulations.

The Jr. Ring doesn’t fly as well as the S1 however, it still flies well enough to get you going with stunting. The .15X is perfect for that airframe as they build nose heavy and that Fox is light. I really think you will enjoy it.

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t6983-ringmaster-jr-build?highlight=Jr+ringmaster


Last edited by Cribbs74 on Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  NEW222 on Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:30 pm

Thanks Ron. I guess I also forgot to note in the small changes I will be making. Both are within the wing. First, I will not be sheeting teh top and bottom spanwise from the LE back to the spar. The other is that the original is a two piece wing then joined together. I will be making this as a one piece wing and will double up the center ribs. In doing so, I am not sure how I will make and address teh plywood bellcrank mount that was missing. Make it as per original, or can I make it slightly smaller?
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Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:35 pm

I added the link to my build. You will have to explain a little more clearly about your sheeting as I don’t quite understand what you are wanting to do.
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Post  NEW222 on Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:24 pm

Sorry about that. The plans I have show the wing sheeted from the spar to the leading edge. As well as the center section sheeted two wing bays from center. I will still be sheeting the 4 center bays from LE to TE, however, I will not be doing any sheeting beyond that. Does that possibly help? As for building it in one piece. The plans have you build both wing halves seperately and install wood joiners/locating pieces in one half, then glue them together after both are built. I will be just building mine as one piece from the start just as in a Baby Ringmaster. I will still be sheeting the rear 1" of the ribs as per the plans as there is no TE piece other than the 1" sheeting.
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Post  Ken Cook on Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:26 pm

I have to ask why are you eliminating the sheeting? This is what offers stability to the fuse and prevents the fuse from acting like a tuning fork. It also structurally stiffens the wing in the bay of the bellcrank platform.Your also better off having the wing a two piece construction because when you crash it, that area becomes the sacrificial lamb. The Ringmaster wing though doesn't break on the joint in the leading edge. It's the trailing edge that becomes problematic. The joint in the center of the trailing edge is where the wing fails. On impact, the break occurs and the wing hinges on the leading edge splice. Of course if you use spars, these will then break every rib in the wing as the hinging takes place.
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Post  NEW222 on Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:40 pm

I just ran and took a picture. Everything circled in color is supposed to be sheeted as per the plans. I will still be sheeting everything circled in green, but I will not be sheeting the area in red that is sheeted as per the plan.
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Post  NEW222 on Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:42 pm

Yes, there are spars. 3/16" square spars on top and bottom of teh wing ribs and the LE is also a 3/16" square spar. The only sheeting eliminated is from W3 to the wingtip, LE to spar.
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Post  Ken Cook on Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:19 pm

While the instructions appear to be Sterling, that wing construction is not how the JR Ring was constructed. This can probably explain Ron's confusion. The only profile that I'm aware of that Sterling provided leading edge sheeting on was the S1-A .35 size Ringmaster.

The original Jr Ring had no sheeting and a single spar which was not really a spar but a jig to keep the ribs aligned. The original Jr also used a solid shaped leading edge which was 3/4"x 3/4" which was the strength of the wing.  Personally, I would sheet from the spars to the leading edge on your model. Reason being is that the ribs are probably compensated for the extra thickness allowing the sheeting to finish flush with the aft end of the ribs behind the spar. The construction in your plans is known as D tube. A D tube wing offers it's strength from the sheeting which keeps the wing from flexing and warping provided it's built correctly.  In addition, a sheeted leading edge provides a better airfoil and the Jr needs all the help it can get. This prevents the covering from sagging between ribs. To fly properly the model needs to fly fast. .15 size models fly faster than .35 size models which isn't a bad thing due to small wing loading.


Last edited by Ken Cook on Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:23 pm

Are the plans Jr. Ringy or S1A? The full size S1A had a sheeted leading edge.

Edit: I looked closer at the plans. Seems you have something of a rare bird. Perhaps made in the later years. Sterling modified the S1 with a sheeted LE to provide more area for the newer coverings (Monokote) I wonder if they modified the Jr. as well. It appears they did.
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Post  NEW222 on Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:13 pm

The ribs are not compensated for the sheeting, with the exception of the ones I circled (R1, R2, R3). The gentleman I got it from had made the ribs for the rebuild as they are not original from the kit.

The plans are Sterling S5 plans. I will attach better pictures of that part as well as part of teh box.

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Post  Ken Cook on Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:34 pm

Bob Clauss who's a member of our club was Sterling's lead draftsman. Bob moved out of state about a year ago and I haven't seen him since  his move. He would more than likely be responsible for this change in the Jr. Bob designed the S1-A with the sheeting. Your kit is probably one of the later produced kits. I have never seen a Jr with sheeted areas other than the center section. The picture of the completed Ring also shows a plastic tank. This was typical of Sterling  kits produced in the late 80's just prior to the fire and demise of the company. I do recall a conversation with Bob in regards to equipment that was drastically in need of replacement. The die machines were sold to Estes and no one knew how they even operated as they were quite complex. The machines were scrapped and that's the end of that. This is why Estes came out with a total new design for their Ringmasters.
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Post  chevyiron420 on Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:19 am

That jr ring is like one I have. The fuse is longer than usual, the elevator is smaller, and a odd shaped rudder. Mine has two square spars in the wing. My son also has one. None of mine have sheeted leading edges like my S1A does.
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Post  rsv1cox on Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:48 am

It seems that you have an iconic airplane with a bunch of twists. Free is good!

Eager to see your work-arounds and a build thread.

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Post  NEW222 on Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:07 pm

Well, not too much to report today. Made my leadout holes in the inboard ribs, made the wingtips and drilled and temporarily installed the leadout guides. Got my balsa sticks and TE sheeting ready. I had one piece of 1/16 x 1 x 36 and one piece of 1/16 x 3/4 x 36 in my spare balsa bundle. As luck would have it I also had a piece of 1/16 x 1/4 x 36 so I edge glued teh two pieces together to make teh second 1" piece for the TE. It is now weighted down and drying. I also slit and hinged teh elevator today trying something new as the sheet is thin. I have a mylar type material so I sanded it with a ScotchBrite pad then cut into 4 pieces 3/4" square. I installed it just as the CA hinges with CA, and it appears to hold very good, takes the flexing, and is easy to install. If something happens, I will just sew the hinges as I normally do. I am not too sure when I will get back to it this week, but will update it as I go along. Pictures to come shortly.
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Post  NEW222 on Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:14 pm

Also made the rudder and fin tip. Glued that assembly together. Slowly but surely....

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Post  Cribbs74 on Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:30 pm

Yep, looks like it’s all there. Friendly criticism though, there is a lot of taper behind the canopy and the horizontal stab and elevator looks lopsided. One end looks right but the other is misshapen. It could be the angle of the pictures though. Keep in mind I am a detail guy. We all know where the devil is...
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Post  NEW222 on Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:02 pm

Yep. The tail surfaces are off a little bit on one side but good on the other. This was noticed and will be addressed when I can get out into the garage to do my sanding. As well as the fuselage defect you mention. That I cannot say or know as the fuselage was already assembled/repaired as you see it when I got it. I never thought of that, but now that you mention it, it does look a bit different. I guess I will definately be making it 'mine' as there are some differences between this one and teh way it is supposed to be! Thanks for the interest and comments.
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Post  Eddy on Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:19 pm

NEW222                                                                                                                                                                                                                           I couldn't help but notice the different plans you are showing on the Ringmaster Jr. The  box art of yours is the same as mine, except the plans for mine are typical Sterling drawings. Mine has formed leading and trailing edge with sheet only between #2 ribs. Although a .25 engine seem a little over kill, as .19 would be max for mine. I powered my Ringmaster Jr. with an OK Cub .149 as I like the retro look of it. I did notice on my plans that in the lower right hand corner there is a coded numbers and letters of: P17ES3VER. Probably something to do with the print date of the plans. I bought my Ringmaster Jr. new in the early 80's, just didn't build it till a few years ago. It's not the greatest for stunting, but still a good flying plane for what it is.
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Post  getback on Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:18 am

Thought i would tag along for the build / build it /fly it / have fun !! Very Happy
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Post  NEW222 on Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:04 pm

Thanks Eddy. I just took another look at my plans and I do not see any numbers or markings on mine like you do on yours. I was hoping there was some as then we could have some fun trying to decipher what they mean... I plan on using my Fox .15x on mine. However with that said, it sounds like even that will make this thing turn some laps quick.... Some even say the Enya .09 MK III would be a perfect fit. As i received it with the fuselage already built/repaired, I had no choice in engine bearer dimensions, but bothe engines will fit and holes have not yet been drilled so until it is done, I will have some time to decide.

And Eric, thanks for tagging along with the build. It will probably be slow, but I will update it as I go along....
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Post  Ken Cook on Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:34 pm

.15 size planes fly faster than most .35 size planes, they need to. The Jr's wing is shy on wingspan and airfoil thickness. The faster it flies, the better it flies. Seeing Ed was using the Cub .14, it probably flew sufficient for that engine mainly due to the fact that the JR is already nose heavy not to mention the Cub is lighter than the Fox. Woodie prop, no muffler, foam wheels are all in order for the Jr. Many take the Jr and put a modern .15 on it which turns it into a meteor when the power cuts.
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Post  NEW222 on Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:32 pm

Ok, so I said it would be slow but I had some motivation tonight. I glued up the wing, kind of... Got it layed out and upper and lower spars glued in place. I would like to have this wing done this week, but tomorrow evening I am busy, Thursday is my 'crime tv' night (First 48, 60 Days in, Live PD reruns......). Then comes Friday and the weekend. Well, it is Race weekend in Beausejour. So snomobile ice oval racing Fri, Sat, Sun. Canadian Championchips and last race of the year, so there is no more holding back..... Stay tuned. And next time, I will try to remember to clean my lens on the camera.
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Post  Mark Boesen on Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:38 pm

this was my first big plane (non 1/2a) summer before 7th grade, Fox .15 slant plug. dope, silkspan. Later i rigged landing gear to slide into brass tubing and drop after airborne
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Post  getback on Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:50 am

Ghost plane , why you paint it all white ? Seems that would bee hard to see in the clear skies . Looks good though. Very Happy
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