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Post  GallopingGhostler Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:28 pm

Following came in yesterday, was only bidder at $10 + $10 tax and shipping (from Albuquerque, hence sales tax).

Sullivan CL Handles 2019-029

Sullivan CL Handles 2019-029

Sullivan CL Handles 2019-030

Not good enough to judge just by looking until I compare with one of my other wire sets, but one is used in good condition, one is new, appears to be at least 0.015 to 0.018 wires probably about 50 feet or more in length with completed ends.

The Sullivan with adjustable width will be good for half-A flying, a better match for the smaller bellcrank. These IMO were decent handles in their day, I am definitely stoked.
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Post  NEW222 Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:55 pm

Nice score!
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Post  Cribbs74 Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:01 pm

The other handle without adjustable line spacing is a biased handle. I used one when I first started out not knowing anything about handles. It caused me a lot of grief before someone told me what bias was.

Unless you have some physical limitation in your wrist I wouldn’t bother with it.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:35 am

Thanks, NEW222.

Cribbs74 wrote:The other handle without adjustable line spacing is a biased handle. I used one when I first started out not knowing anything about handles. It caused me a lot of grief before someone told me what bias was. Unless you have some physical limitation in your wrist I wouldn’t bother with it.
Ron, that handle is the same model I used while you were on TDY in Clovis. The adjustable key that varies the top and bottom wire lengths, I just set it so both are even and used a wire zip tie to hold it in place. It has a tendency to fall out if not careful and as such then just becomes another CL handle.

I suppose the value of it might be in the case where one has uneven line lengths or bellcrank is slightly off, adjust to make up the difference. Otherwise I see no other reason for the offset.
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Post  oldguy Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:13 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:The other handle without adjustable line spacing is a biased handle. I used one when I first started out not knowing anything about handles. It caused me a lot of grief before someone told me what bias was.

Unless you have some physical limitation in your wrist I wouldn’t bother with it.

What do you it's just another biased handle?
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Post  Cribbs74 Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:16 pm

oldguy wrote:
Cribbs74 wrote:The other handle without adjustable line spacing is a biased handle. I used one when I first started out not knowing anything about handles. It caused me a lot of grief before someone told me what bias was.

Unless you have some physical limitation in your wrist I wouldn’t bother with it.

What do you it's just another biased handle?

I am not sure what you are asking.
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Post  oldguy Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:19 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:
oldguy wrote:
Cribbs74 wrote:The other handle without adjustable line spacing is a biased handle. I used one when I first started out not knowing anything about handles. It caused me a lot of grief before someone told me what bias was.

Unless you have some physical limitation in your wrist I wouldn’t bother with it.

What do you it's just another biased handle?

I am not sure what you are asking.

I'm sorry. I meant to ask. What do you mean it's just a biased handle?Jim
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Post  Cribbs74 Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:25 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:Thanks, NEW222.

Cribbs74 wrote:The other handle without adjustable line spacing is a biased handle. I used one when I first started out not knowing anything about handles. It caused me a lot of grief before someone told me what bias was. Unless you have some physical limitation in your wrist I wouldn’t bother with it.
Ron, that handle is the same model I used while you were on TDY in Clovis. The adjustable key that varies the top and bottom wire lengths, I just set it so both are even and used a wire zip tie to hold it in place. It has a tendency to fall out if not careful and as such then just becomes another CL handle.

I suppose the value of it might be in the case where one has uneven line lengths or bellcrank is slightly off, adjust to make up the difference. Otherwise I see no other reason for the offset.

I may not be understanding what you are saying. The line lengths are adustable as you mentioned to allow for neutral elevator. The bias comes in if you look at the shape of the handle. If you are a wrist flier it allows for more up then down. Even if you are an extended arm flier it’s problematic.

If you move your wrist up and down like you are holding a handle you will notice you naturally have less up than down. The bias compensates for that. The problem is it makes it too touchy.
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Post  Cribbs74 Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:26 pm

oldguy wrote:
Cribbs74 wrote:
oldguy wrote:
Cribbs74 wrote:The other handle without adjustable line spacing is a biased handle. I used one when I first started out not knowing anything about handles. It caused me a lot of grief before someone told me what bias was.

Unless you have some physical limitation in your wrist I wouldn’t bother with it.

What do you it's just another biased handle?

I am not sure what you are asking.

I'm sorry.   I meant to ask.   What do you mean it's just a biased handle?Jim

Hey Jim, I provided a better explanation above.
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Post  oldguy Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:27 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:
oldguy wrote:
Cribbs74 wrote:
oldguy wrote:
Cribbs74 wrote:The other handle without adjustable line spacing is a biased handle. I used one when I first started out not knowing anything about handles. It caused me a lot of grief before someone told me what bias was.

Unless you have some physical limitation in your wrist I wouldn’t bother with it.

What do you it's just another biased handle?

I am not sure what you are asking.

I'm sorry.   I meant to ask.   What do you mean it's just a biased handle?Jim

Hey Jim, I provided a better explanation above.

Gotcha, thanks.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:53 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:I may not be understanding what you are saying. The line lengths are adjustable as you mentioned to allow for neutral elevator. The bias comes in if you look at the shape of the handle. If you are a wrist flier it allows for more up then down. Even if you are an extended arm flier it’s problematic.

If you move your wrist up and down like you are holding a handle you will notice you  naturally have less up than down. The bias compensates for that. The problem is it makes it too touchy.

Ron, I've had no problems with the handle and I guess it just depends on what you feel comfortable with. I use a combination of both wrist and elbow, so, I've got no problems with it. But then, I was self taught to fly CL. I can see where someone who does mostly wrist action would set it as with the wrist up as far as it can go, a normal handle is vertical up and down. So, one would set neutral elevator where the wrist is pointed slightly down to begin with, so they have enough motion for up with full desired up when wrist is at its highest position (handle straight).

Dizzy Gillespie played his trumpet with his cheeks puffed out, which is considered bad form with brass players, but he still sounded good. Being pro, he was still liked by people by the way he sounded as he played. So, may be I got bad form, but for me I do what works for me and no one else.
I guess it goes with an old maxim, "If you don't like the way I drive, then stay off the sidewalks." lol!
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Post  Cribbs74 Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:18 pm

George I certainly have no problem with whatever you choose to do. I was just pointing out that it was a biased handle and may cause you some problems. If you progress into stunting it will show itself more. Flat laps it won’t be noticeable at all. Just some friendly advice.

BTW I am a self taught flier as well, but I learned the pattern by listening to others. Wink
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Post  GallopingGhostler Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:45 pm

Ron, I am certainly no expert when it comes to what handles to use and etc. I bought those handles primarily because of the second handle with adjustable line width, for use on half-A's because of their smaller bellcrank. The first handle was a freebie bonus.

My post was not to promote the Sullivan handle. I just thought it was nice to get a bargain, and express my "joy" in winning something plus 2 sets of lines for a reasonable cost.

I hope that whatever we do, we do for fun and enjoy ourselves. After all, isn't that what it is all about?
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