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Post  batjac Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:24 pm

Withdrawn.


Last edited by batjac on Wed May 01, 2019 6:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post  aspeed Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:29 pm

Good run.  Did you get dizzy?  I figured out your speed.  15.85 meters/sec.  57.08 km/hr. and 35.47 mph  I used this table http://www.flycl.co.uk/control_line_speed_calculator.htm  works for every line length and # of laps. That is with 4.88 meter length.
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Post  944_Jim Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:46 pm

Good job! The gauntlet has been thrown down! Sorry to hear the Skunkworks plane never made an official flight. Any chance it can fly before video deadline comes.around? Any chance you'll share the secret?

I have to ask...how do you record the flight from the middle?
I still need to knock together a dolly.
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Post  NEW222 Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:37 am

Nice job on both the plane and flight. Sorry to hear of the first prototype.
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Post  KariFS Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:06 am

Yay! Good looking plane and a nice flight Smile Got me dizzy just watching it drunken

For the SSP plane, could you use a LH propeller to use the torque roll as an advantage?
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Post  Oldenginerod Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:09 am

Maybe I'm seeing it wrong, but watching your video I though "That doesn't look like 32 foot lines!"

So I went back to the pictures to check and it does indeed look like you're running 16 foot lines- 32 foot clip to clip, but with the handle in the middle. Any wonder it screwed you into the ground!! Huh...
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Post  akjgardner Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:41 am

Nice Looking Airplane
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Post  getback Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:51 am

Line Rule lol! lol! lol! You Go batjac !! Great run and nice looking entry ( so you don't need a fin ?! ) This Site Rocks!
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Post  RknRusty Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:27 pm

Hahahaha, that's funny. Great flight, Mark. Good job.  I used another calculator from aspeed, here's mine an 1 hundredth of a second faster:
New video for the 2019 Run What Ya Brung to conform Marks_10

I was really proud of my Reed Speed Mustang back in 2015(or so). It flew in the 40s. That little plane still hangs with my fleet. I bet the short lines give yours a nice drag advantage.
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Last edited by RknRusty on Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:05 pm; edited 4 times in total

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Post  RknRusty Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:38 pm

getback wrote:...( so you don't need a fin ?! ) This Site Rocks!
Fin = Drag. It serves no purpose in a roundy round plane. Especially a speed plane where centrifugal force holds it out on the lines.

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Post  aspeed Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:39 pm

You don't even need an outboard wing like on the FAI speed planes.
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Post  Ken Cook Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:31 pm

If you were able to stand still and pull your wrist right in tight to you chest you would go even faster.
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Post  batjac Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:18 pm

944_Jim wrote: I have to ask...how do you record the flight from the middle?

Jim, I made a hatcam so I can record my crashe flights from my perspective using a ballcap my wife brought home from some seminar and a Mobius action camera (Mobius Action Cam).  I just cut two slits in the bill of the cap and used a strip of Velcro to attach it.  The Velcro loop on the under side of the bill is a great place to keep the lens cap when the camera is in use.

New video for the 2019 Run What Ya Brung to conform DSCN6678
New video for the 2019 Run What Ya Brung to conform DSCN6679
New video for the 2019 Run What Ya Brung to conform DSCN6680


KariFS wrote: For the SSP plane, could you use a LH propeller to use the torque roll as an advantage?

Doh!!!  That’s too simple.  Why didn’t I think of that?


RknRusty wrote:
getback wrote:...( so you don't need a fin ?! ) This Site Rocks!
Fin = Drag. It serves no purpose in a roundy round plane. Especially a speed plane where centrifugal force holds it out on the lines.

Uh…. Yeah!  Less drag!  I meant to take the fin off…..


Ken Cook wrote: If you were able to stand still and pull your wrist right in tight to you chest you would go even faster.

I didn’t even think about pulling in my wrist like the speed guys do.  All I could think about was that I was just hoping not to trip in the lumpy grass as I spun around.


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Post  RknRusty Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:56 pm

batjac wrote:I didn’t even think about pulling in my wrist like the speed guys do.  All I could think about was that I was just hoping not to trip in the lumpy grass as I spun around.

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Right-o, what Ken says. When us Stunt guys are trimming the plane's lap times, one foot of line(distance to the plane) equals about 0.1 seconds.
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Post  Oldenginerod Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:23 am

So, has anyone thought about my comments on the line length? Still looks like 16 foot lines to me!!
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Post  aspeed Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:04 am

Yes, I calculated the speed with 16 ft. lines. Makes it more fun. Now we need to know if shorter lines are faster or slower. I think faster, but only the stopwatch can tell.
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Post  batjac Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:51 am

Oldenginerod wrote:So, has anyone thought about my comments on the line length?  Still looks like 16 foot lines to me!!

Well, if ya want to look at it center-to-eyelet, then yeah. But it's still 32' end-to-end.

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Post  944_Jim Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:51 pm

I say, bend those rules! That is the the flavor of Run what you bring, even if it makes the pilot sick!
Still working mine...I think I'm going to run out of time.
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Post  Ken Cook Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:36 pm

I haven't read the rules but I don't even know where 32' comes from. The practical line length to fly a Cox reedie is center of handle to center of plane 35' which is usually granted a + or - of 3". Center of plane to center of handle is the standard when line lengths are described on control line planes, there's nothing subjective about it. Using one continuous line length of 32' and folding it in half is not correct nor should it be considered.
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Post  batjac Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:25 pm

Ken Cook wrote:I haven't read the rules but I don't even know where 32' comes from. The practical line length to fly a Cox reedie is center of handle to center of plane 35' which is usually granted a + or - of 3". Center of plane to center of handle is the standard when line lengths are described on control line planes, there's nothing subjective about it.  Using one continuous line length of 32' and folding it in half is not correct nor should it be considered.

When flying 1/2A with a SIG handle, you pretty much always use one continuous line folded in half.  In various contests I have seen it specified either eyelet-to-eyelet or center-to-center.  So I stand by my interpretation.  Very Happy After all, with a non-tweaked Babe Bee on a Beginner's Ringmaster, I have no real chance of winning, so I might as well have as much fun with this as I can...


The rules as stated on the speed contest thread:

"* RUN WHAT YA BRUNG UNLIMITED:

Must be Cox engine, and not some Cyclone Cox hybrid...that said; any typical Documented Cox hop up is allowed
Recommend reading Paul Gibeault's Mouse racer engine prep and tuning

It is a speed contest... this implies already best practices self limiting air-frame and configurations

If you have a very hot .051 TeeDee and want to see if a Baby Ringmaster BiPlane can turn fast laps...well give it a go, document and enter

The stuff that hot engine on the nose of a thinned and lightened SkyRay and fly some more laps

Rocket assit is not allowed!

BUT I will offer a fourth prize of $50 for any contender that does a speed run with JATO take off...documented and video taped......Evil grin

Point is to have fun, prove we at CEF really are the gentlemen we already demonstrate every day and perhaps entice some RCG RCU Stunthanger to be new members and participate

* Voting:
TOP MPH calculated from 32 (REED) or 42 (FISE) foot lines is 80% of the total
Build and testing documentation is 10% of the total
Execution, complexity, originality, uniqueness, fit n finish, 10%

* Bonus Points....By popular vote the best build and testing documentation On CEF will receive a $50 CoxInternational Or ExModelengins gift certificate...winners choice...or $25 to each supplier"



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Post  Ken Cook Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:47 pm

I didn't write the rules. I only commented some time ago that there were so many rules that they disallowed planes that I for one already had. When rules get made, they generally become so overbearing you need a interpreter to figure them out. As a result, that's pretty much what happened and out of all of it ONE video was displayed. The rule that was in question was the two wheel rule. If your flying speed, there's no reason why you need two wheels as it only presents more drag. All of my 1/2A speed planes aside from one are single gear. I merely requested to use them but I would use a larger wheel to compensate for the two on conventional gear. That was shot down. This time around, I said just RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG!!!!

Now, you can interpret the rules how you like. It doesn't matter if it's stunt, speed, combat, scale. When a figurative number is put out there for line length it means center of handle to center of plane. As I said there's nothing subjective about it. You can say the rules don't specify that because of the handle your using and I'm fine with that because I have no skin in the game here. I didn't write the rules nor do I enforce them. If you think that using 16' is correct, I can tell you it's absolutely incorrect and it's almost silly to think it is. When those line lengths were offered, they were specified to mean center of plane to center of handle.
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Post  aspeed Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:54 pm

Centre of plane to centre of handle is pretty standard. Hmm the Conquest on 42' lines would get me dizzy. I don't think our field will be open for a couple weeks yet. Too wet.
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Post  batjac Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:35 pm

Ken Cook wrote:... and it's almost silly to think it is.

Bingo!
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Post  coxaddict Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:02 am

It has been shown speed can be calculated using any line length as long as it is known.  Just makes it more challenging for the contest judge to calculate because of lack of standardization.  I applaud those who actually submit videos and build pictures. Keep them coming!
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Post  Ken Cook Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:17 am

And I totally disagree with that. If your suggesting that you can now take the time and double it and it will be the same that's incorrect. A plane on sixteen feet' is flying much faster than one on 32'. Line drag increases as the lines lengthen and the plane doesn't always fly wings level or tangent to the circle unless trimmed properly.
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