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Post  getback on Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:16 pm

I am in , But i don't understand why we would need a new engine ?? / i was just looking and anything i have that resembles new i want it to stay that way LOL . New product engine 49.95 ... if your not going to take it apart ( and i don't see why you would ) Then why not just go with a good reliable runner that will start on the first spring start or has good comp with a ball socket tighten ??? Unless Mark had some $$ he just can't stand anymore !?!?!? Fishing Old Bugger
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Post  Levent Suberk on Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:47 pm

getback wrote:I am in , But i don't understand why we would need a new engine ?? / i was just looking and anything i have that resembles new i want it to stay that way LOL . New product engine 49.95 ... if your not going to take it apart ( and i don't see why you would ) Then why not just go with a good reliable runner that will start on the first spring start or has good comp with a ball socket tighten ??? Unless Mark had some $$ he just can't stand anymore !?!?!? Fishing Old Bugger

Right. Clapping
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Post  Mark Diedrichs on Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:12 pm

A new engine is necessary to make a good starting point. Who knows where or what a used engine has been subjected to.This is a endurance run/test, when the engine quits regardless of how much fuel is left, contest over. Its all about the durability of our beloved Cox engine!!! Mark
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Post  roddie on Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:00 pm

Mark Diedrichs wrote:A new engine is necessary to make a good starting point. Who knows where or what a used engine has been subjected to.This is a endurance run/test, when the engine quits regardless of how much fuel is left, contest over. Its all about the durability of our beloved Cox engine!!! Mark

I understand where you're coming from Mark. A "new" engine would (should) have fresh parts throughout. I'll echo Ron Cribb's suggestion to first; subject the proposed engine to a break-in procedure.. and a proper reset of the piston/conrod ball/socket joint.

 What about a cox .049 engine endurance contest??? - Page 2 Dsc03511

Running a new Cox engine.. for an endurance-record, without seasoning/resetting as-per the above, would likely result in an early engine-failure; particularly of that area.
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Post  Mark Diedrichs on Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:12 pm

Mr. Roddie thanks for you input, well taken, however to make this contest a real life experience the engine should be run straight out of the box. Just the way it would have been when we were all 12 yrs old!!!!
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Post  Cox International on Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:43 pm

Mark,

You wrote to us but our reply to you bounced back:

doxmini2@yahoo.com
host mta6.am0.yahoodns.net [74.6.137.63]
SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data:
554 delivery error: dd This user doesn't have a yahoo.com account (doxmini2@yahoo.com) [-9] - mta4247.mail.bf1.yahoo.com

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Post  Mark Diedrichs on Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:01 pm

Just asking If you would discount or donate a.049 engine for a Cox Engine Forum Contest???
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Post  Cox International on Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:08 pm

We know and this was our reply (sent before we saw your post on the forum):

Hello Mark.

We do occasionally support events and clubs whose members are regular customers of ours and, of course, Cox Engine Forum sponsored events. However, we are unsure as to who you are or whom you represent as we have not been able to find your name in our customer database.

Cheers
Bernie
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Post  Mark Diedrichs on Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:23 pm

Bernie, I'm just a cox engine forum follower/participant. I came up with a idea to have a cox .049 endurance contest. Hope you can help us out!! Mark
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Post  dckrsn on Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:59 pm

Unless I'm missing something.............
There's no benchmark duration time to conquer,
but we're going to take a new, never run engine, and
sacrifice her on the altar of entertainment, and............
I am sorry, sounds like dog or cock fighting.
Then again, You could use an old, clapped-out product
engine and have at it. Same result.


The socially awkward Bob
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Post  batjac on Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:17 pm

Cox International wrote:We know and this was our reply (sent before we saw your post on the forum):

Hello Mark.

We do occasionally support events and clubs whose members are regular customers of ours and, of course, Cox Engine Forum sponsored events. However, we are unsure as to who you are or whom you represent as we have not been able to find your name in our customer database.

Cheers
Bernie

Bernie, I am the Mark who is proposing to put up the new engine. I appreciate that Mark Diedrichs might want to lessen the investment in this contest, but I am not asking for a contribution. I just want to buy an engine for the fun of it and use it for the duration run. The CEF has done a lot for me over the years, so this is just one way of giving back in a fun manner.



getback wrote:I am in , But i don't understand why we would need a new engine ? Unless Mark had some $$ he just can't stand anymore !?!?!? Fishing Old Bugger

Eric, I'm not rolling in dough, I live on a budget like most everyone else. But I do budget money for my hobby. What better way to spend the hobby money than a stress-free contest for everyone to enjoy, with the chance to win an almost brand new engine? I'm married, so I can't spend it on chicks, so why not spend it for the enjoyment of my CEF friends? I wanted to use a new engine because the only new product engine that I can remember buying was one of those bubble wrapped Estes close-out engines. And we all know what kind of QC those had. Although I've made lots of orders from Bernie before, never ordered an engine from him. But I've always heard good things about the engines Bernie puts together, so best to start with the one of his engines. Besides, if I'm going to give this away to someone, I want them to have a nice engine and not a beater from my engine box.



dckrsn wrote:
   Unless I'm missing something.............
There's no benchmark duration time to conquer,
but we're going to take a new, never run engine, and
sacrifice her on the altar of entertainment, and............
I am sorry, sounds like dog or cock fighting.

The socially awkward Bob

Bob, I don't quite see it like that. For me it's no different than saying, "Guess how many jelly beans are in this jar and win an engine!" We're just guessing how long a stock product engine will run on a quart of fuel.

The Busker Mark
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Post  aspeed on Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:37 pm

What is a quart? 28 oz, 32 oz? Depends what country you are from. We used to get the British quarts and gallons, then litres, now US gallons because they are smaller and more money is made on it. Anyway my guess is a bit over 4 hours for a litre. OK. 4 hr. and 21 minutes running almost peaked out with a double bypass cylinder. I doubt it will run the whole tank without readjusting the needle unless it isn't a tank mount. I doubt the motor would wear out in that time, maybe the crank to case seal. If I win you can keep the motor. I kind of wonder that's all. Store credit would be alright I suppose.
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Post  dckrsn on Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:42 pm

Love ya Mark, but in the jelly bean scenario, you
can still eat the jelly beans.
In the other, no engine to play with.

The Cox cat lady Bob
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Post  Oldenginerod on Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:33 pm

dckrsn wrote:Love ya Mark, but in the jelly bean scenario, you
can still eat the jelly beans.
In the other, no engine to play with.

The Cox cat lady Bob

As I mentioned in a previous post, this looks to me like a fuel economy run, not a "run her 'til she blows" scenario.  With the right fuel and careful attention, the engine should just come out the other end of a quart of fuel being nicely run in.  No point putting up a prize that's been flogged to death.

Then again, if someone wants to test an engine until destruction, then run it peaked-lean on 35% buggy fuel with no castor and a tiny prop, then you're sure to get an explosive result.  Don't expect my help.  We should be looking after them, not destroying them No!
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Post  balogh on Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:35 pm

I have some brand new Sure Starts of which I could sacrifice one on the altar of endurance experiment.
I would select one with good fit and compression and remove occassional metal particles from it in order to represent the COX hayday quality.
If you tell me to whom to ship I will mail it to him.

As written here in my previous post I expect the engine will survive large quantities of fuel through it/ many hundreds of ours of run if the carb is set properly and the prop is well balanced.

I could not agree more with Oldenginerod...we do not want to massacre the engine but make her do her humble work for our experiment and fun..I condition my donation to having max 20% nitro and min 20% castor in the fuel. Old Bugger
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Post  Levent Suberk on Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:16 pm

What do you think about fuel tank? Du-Bro 60 oz. (1800 cc) fuel tank here for 28.90 $

https://www.dubro.com/products/fuel-tanks?variant=27880844615
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Post  batjac on Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:02 am

balogh wrote:I have some brand new Sure Starts of which I could sacrifice one on the altar of endurance experiment.

There can’t be that many engines over there in the Olde World, so it’d be a shame to send one over here where they’re plentiful. Besides, I was thinking that 25% nitro would be the standard fuel for this test.


Levent Suberk wrote:What do you think about fuel tank? Du-Bro 60 oz. (1800 cc) fuel tank here for 28.90 $
https://www.dubro.com/products/fuel-tanks?variant=27880844615

I have a brand new, never used, clean metal quart can that I was just going to solder a feed tube and a vent tube in and use that. The rectangular kind like the old pint cans Cox fuel used to come in.


I went ahead and ordered an engine. I’ll dig through my stuff and find a zero drag spring starter for it. I’ll use a standard Cox 5x3 Safety Tip propeller for the run. Now to just receive the engine, find some fuel for it, and do a break-in.

The Shoestring Mark
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Post  944_Jim on Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:54 am

I'm curious to see how long too. Would the engine need to be fed from a fuel level regulated fuel cell?

How can changes to the needle for fuel level/flow changes over the unregulated tank?
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Post  Cox International on Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:07 pm

batjac wrote:Okay, I'll bite.  My flying field does not have a requirement for mufflers, so I could set up a test stand (saw horse) at the field and mount an engine on Bernie’s universal test stand.  I always play with my toys, so I can’t say as I have a new, bone stock engine to play with.  So, I will buy a brand new engine from Bernie (Cox International Product Engine), put a starter spring on it, and take it to the field for an endurance run.  

As has been stated, a gallon would take forever, so I propose running a quart.  I’ll pony up the engine and accessories if someone(s) else is willing to pony up a quart of fuel.  Nitro/oil content up to them.  Anyone who wants to (excluding myself, of course) can put their guess as to how long it will run on an official endurance guess thread.  I’ll run the engine continuously for the full quart, videoing the start, and hopefully the end.  I’ll time the complete run, and whoever guesses closest to the actual run time wins.  I’ll box up and ship the engine out to the winner after announcing.

What Say Ye?

The Long Haul Mark

Mark,

As our contribution to this event and, because you are a long-time customer of ours, we have refunded your payment in its entirety and have also added to the shipment:

Silicone fuel line
Starter spring & cam
2 Extra 5x3 propellers in different configurations

Have fun Smile
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Post  batjac on Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:11 pm

Cox International wrote:Mark,

As our contribution to this event and, because you are a long-time customer of ours, we have refunded your payment in its entirety and have also added to the shipment:

Silicone fuel line
Starter spring & cam
2 Extra 5x3 propellers in different configurations

Have fun Smile

Bernie,  Thank you so very much for the generous contribution.  It was not necessary, but is definitely appreciated.  Whomever gets this after the endurance run will have a great engine from a fantastic supporter of our hobby.  This is why I am a long time customer, and tell everyone I know in the hobby about you.

I have two quarts of fuel coming in the mail, and four days off next week, so we should be able to get your engine broken in and the endurance run done by next weekend.


Thank you again for being such a great friend to the CEF and the 1/2A community.

Mark   Hats Off
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Post  batjac on Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:17 pm

944_Jim wrote:I'm curious to see how long too. Would the engine need to be fed from a fuel level regulated fuel cell?

How can changes to the needle for fuel level/flow changes over the unregulated tank?

Jim, that is why I'm using the rectangular quart can. With the can on its side, the change in pressure head will be minimized, and as the engine runs I can adjust the needle and the tank height to try to keep a consistent engine RPM.

The Hep Cat Mark
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Post  Marleysky on Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:30 pm

TESTORS CHOICE:

Select one of these three, pm me your address and I should be able to post it to you Monday....

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35% Cox ( about a year or two+ old)
??% Cox fuel, NOS, 15-25yrs old ( cool metal quart can)
25% Sig Champion , last year.
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Post  batjac on Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:59 pm

Marleysky wrote:TESTORS CHOICE:

Select one of these three, pm me your address and I should be able to post it to you Monday....

 What about a cox .049 engine endurance contest??? - Page 2 D1f7d110


35% Cox ( about a year or two+ old)
??%  Cox fuel, NOS, 15-25yrs old ( cool metal quart can)
25% Sig Champion , last year.

I'm thinking the 35% Cox Super Fuel. Because 1) that's the formulation we asked Tower to make for us and we tested it well here on the forum, and 2) the engine is going to be sitting static, bolted to the test stand, so the 35% should run a tad cooler.

It would be neat to run it on official Cox fuel in the original can, and it's probably okay after all these years, but let's stick with something more fresh.  I like the SIG Champion fuel, but the Tower blend Cox super Fuel is just as good, I was one of the beta testers. And after all, we did ask them to formulate it for us.

The Loyal Mark


Last edited by batjac on Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  batjac on Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:04 pm

Okay all. Time for some input.

First question: How many ounces of break in before resetting the ball joint? I always reset the ball joint in the used engines I get right away, so I have no good feel for a new engine.

Second question:
How rich of peak to run it? I was figuring to run the engine about 400-500 RPM rich of peak, but I'll take others' advice on that also.

Third question: What music to listen to while the endurance run is going?

The Mad Scientist Mark
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Post  Ken Cook on Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:09 pm

Unfortunately, the Cox fuel is no longer available.
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