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Post  Marleysky on Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:32 pm

batjac wrote:Okay all.  Time for some input.  

First question:  How many ounces of break in before resetting the ball joint?  I always reset the ball joint in the used engines I get right away, so I have no good feel for a new engine.

Second question:
How rich of peak to run it?  I was figuring to run the engine about 400-500 RPM rich of peak, but I'll take others' advice on that also.

Third question:  What music to listen to while the endurance run is going?

The Mad Scientist Mark


Standard snap in tank is 9.7cc ( 1/3 oz) , flight prep manual states to run 3 tanks at a rich setting for break in before first flight.  So, I’d say you do 3 - 1/3 oz runs for Break-in, then one 15 minute constant run to Simulate 5 three minute flights before doing the socket/ball reset, then fire her up and keep on running till your our of fuel or compression!!  

Slightly off peak 400-500r’s sound reasonable to me. Don’t want to run lean!

On the road again, Willy Nelson, The Wall, Pink Floyd, magical mystery tour, the Beatles, traveling Wilburys, Vol 2 and 3.
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Post  balogh on Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:41 pm

Mark:

Ad 1.  I would do the resetting after the ball joint has received proper thermal treatment, so about 5oz.
Ad 2.. 4stroking  rpm just on the border of 2stroking
Ad..; Sweet Child of mine by Guns and Roses...you need the high pitch voice of Axl Rose and the guitar solo by Slash if you really wanna hear the song while a reedy is running in front of you..
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Post  Mark Diedrichs on Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:32 pm

Out of the box means out of the box. Does this engine need to be kept in a mason jar on Funk&Wagnell's front porch until the contest???? P.S listen to Lou Reed Rock and Roll Animal, Sweet Jane...Peace, Mark
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Post  Mark Diedrichs on Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:23 pm

A major thanks to Mr. Batjac for taking on this test. Also many thanks to Cox International for donating the.049 engine!!!! OK let's do this. Out of the box engine, 15%or25% mix and a 5x3 prop, as it would have been for most Cox models back in the day..... Let' s see how this Baby Bee will surprise us all, can't wait to see this happens!!!! Look Out Happy People, Mark
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Post  batjac on Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:15 am

Look what arrived in the mail today:

 What about a cox .049 engine endurance contest??? - Page 3 DSCN6774


Oops! Not that.  This:

 What about a cox .049 engine endurance contest??? - Page 3 DSCN6776
 What about a cox .049 engine endurance contest??? - Page 3 DSCN6778



Thanks again to Bernie for the most generous donation.  This should be a fun test, and the winner should have a nice, broken in engine for their future enjoyment.  I can’t wait to get this puppy going.

The speed races are going on tomorrow at Delta Park, but maybe I can get home while there’s time to get a couple of break in runs before dark.  Once I get the break in runs done, I'll post the RPM it runs at with the supplied 5x3 prop in a new thread and then the guessing can begin.

The Counter Mark
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Post  getback on Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:20 am

Greenies for COX INTERNATIONAL and MARK D also batjac for taking on this event !! Small Cox Logo Small Cox Logo Babe Bee .049 July-27
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Post  roddie on Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:07 am

Hi Mark, If you plumb the fuel-tank's vent-tube to reach the BOTTOM of the tank (UNIFLOW-vent).. you shouldn't need to adjust the carb's needle throughout the entire run. All else must be airtight though.. IE the can's cap must seal.. as well as any solder-joints around the tubes. This is assuming that you still plan on using a Tin quart can for the tank.

"I Can't Drive 55" Sammy Hagar



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Post  Marleysky on Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:20 pm

Well, it looks like the Fuel has been delivered!

 What about a cox .049 engine endurance contest??? - Page 3 66a1c010

Read, set, GO....Gentleman START that ENGINE!
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Post  Mark Diedrichs on Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:02 pm

OOps, senior moment... Big Thanks To Mr. Marleysky for the donation of the jiggle juice for the contest!!! Without the fuel we would have no motivation!!!?? Mark
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Post  batjac on Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:35 am

The official Go Juice arrived this afternoon! Yea!! Thanks Rene for the generous donation. It's on the shelf and ready for the endurance run.

Roddy, I've changed my mind on the tank. The can would be nice, but I think I want to have a visual indication of how much fuel I have left. On the way home from the field, I stopped at the hobby shop and bought an 8 ounce oval slant tank to use. I'll be able to see the fuel level and keep track of everything.

After I got home, I put the engine on the stand and started the break-in procedure. I used the break-in procedure specified in the Killer Bee instructions. It has about 10 minutes run time on it. I'll try to post video tomorrow.

The Crunched Mark
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Post  1/2A Nut on Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:19 am

You should live stream it on Youtube so we can watch in from time to time.
Also a tach check here there would be nice.

July-27 Small Cox Logo Old Bugger Small Cox Logo Thumbs Up
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Post  Admin on Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:43 am

Popcorn this should be interesting.

Can the head be checked for tightness every so often while running? As mentioned sometimes they just come loose after awhile, even if you wrenched that thing on there like a gorilla.

The longest I ran a Cox engine continuously had to be about 45 minutes. It was a parts assembled horseshoe backplate engine with a non-milled slit cylinder with pliers marks. Although it wasn’t any sort of test for wear, I don’t recall noticing any extra play or loss of compression. That was quite a few years ago... I bet the neighbors were ready to come out and knock my head off.

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Post  ticomareado on Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:28 am

Was the engine able to run consistently for 45 minutes w/o touching the NV?
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Post  Mark Diedrichs on Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:54 pm

What's Happening folks? Did someone lose a finger, Hee Hee!! I shouldn't say that, not funny !!! Just wondering how the brake in is go'in on the.049 engine? This is going to be a benchmark contest!!! Can't wait to see how the contest goes. After this test run maybe we could test other Cox engines of different displacement?? Woo Hoo!!! Just Curious, Mark
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Post  Admin on Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:02 pm

ticomareado wrote:Was the engine able to run consistently for 45 minutes w/o touching the NV?

I'm sure I fidgeted with the needle while it was running here and there.

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Post  batjac on Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:28 am

Sorry to take so long to put this video together and publish it.  Work’s been a royal pain, and I had to go to the doctor for shoulder issues, so this got pushed.  The initial break in was done last Saturday evening.  I ran the engine, and then hit it with after run oil while I waited for the work week to be over.


For break-in, I went with the yellow 5x3 safety tip prop that Bernie provided, as it gives excellent visibility of the prop arc.   I followed the instructions for the Killer Bee engine and ran the first minute at the break just below the 4-2 break with the battery connected to the glow head, and then slowly starting to richen up the engine as time went by.  The instructions stated the break in should take about 10 minutes, so that was what I was shooting for.  As the engine started to rev up, the tach began to show over 19K and it was not close to peak yet.  That’s pretty high for a rubber ducky, so I stopped the engine and switched to a grey Cox Competition prop.  The competition prop is stiffer and won’t rev as high, so it was better to do the final peaking.  




After the 10 minute break-in period, I took down the engine to check it out inside, and check the piston slop.  The slop mic’ed out to 0.015”!!!!  So I got out the Cox International reset tool and headed out to the garage.  The instructions say to reset the piston to between 0.003” and 0.001”, so I snuck up slowly on 0.002”, ensuring that the ball joint still moved freely in all directions.  After the reset, I ran another ounce of fuel through the engine to verify the rod reset.  It tach’ed just over 17K, so I’ll run the engine at 16.5K for the endurance run.  I tried to make a short clip of the post-reset run, using the non-safety tip prop that was on the engine when it came from Bernie, but for some reason my phone only recorded audio.  This is the prop that will run for the endurance test.

Here’s the fuel that’ll be used.  Thanks again to Rene for donating the fuel.  As you can see, the bottle is unopened, so it should be a full quart of clean, uncontaminated fuel.  The fuel will be run through a filter before the fuel tank, so we should be all set to go.

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The Overworked Mark
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Post  getback on Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:50 am

Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Way to go Mark , She is a good runner!!! Devil
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Post  smooth_bill on Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:43 pm

Mark,

You probably have a graduated fuel syringe already, but if not I can loan you one of mine.

I'd start with one ounce of fuel, and time the run to get an idea of how long the neighbors are going to yell at you to shut that damn thing down! Very Happy

Should give you an idea of how long it will run per ounce of fuel. In fact to be more precise I'd put just enough fuel in the tank to get it started, and run that out first. The clunk pickup will not drain the tank, so the residual needs to be left in the tank, and the measured amount added to that. Repeat a few times to get a reasonable average.

At least this way you will have some idea of how long the Quart will run. I'm sure you would not want to stay up all night to tend a screaming engine!

Give me a call if interested.

Bill
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Post  batjac on Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:09 pm

Thanks, Eric.

Bill, I have a graduated 3 ounce syringe. And I already have a pretty good idea of how long this is going to run. I'm not running it at my house. I'm going to take my test stand out to the field at Delta Park and do the endurance run. There's not muffler rule there, so I can make all the noise I want. I'm not using a clunk. I have the fuel pickup tube plumbed to the low point of the tank, and I should be able to get all but about a cc of the fuel through the engine.


I was going to do the run today, but it was raining out. I'll shoot for next Wednesday morning now. That'll give me time to set up a thread specifically for everyone's guess as to how long the quart will last.

I was going to run this on the stock glow head that came with the engine, but I'm still concerned with cooling, since the plane will not be flying through the air. Rather, all the cooling will come solely from the air flow generated by the prop. To that end, I'm going to use a 5 fin glow head instead of the 3 fin head that came with the engine. Any help that it can get. I don't think that by using the 5 fin head I'll be violating the spirit of the endurance run.

The Cool Mark
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Post  Mark Diedrichs on Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:57 pm

Happy people, The whole point about this endurance run was to see how long a virgin out of the box .049 would run on a 15% or25% half gallon of fuel. With 5x3 prop. No break in. No starting and stopping or retightening . Fire it up and see how it goes. That was the original concept of the contest.... Maybe we can all meet somewhere in the middle. Lets not over think this!!!!! My best guess would be 49 minutes as the cylinder will heat up and expand, thus the engine stops running due to lack of compression. I've always seen the glass as half empty. That's just me, jumping the gun as usual!!! I think this test will be very surprising and informative for all of us Cox Engine lovers.
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Post  batjac on Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:21 pm

Mark Diedrichs wrote: Happy people, The whole point about this endurance run was to see how long a virgin out of the box .049 would run on a 15% or25% half gallon of fuel. With 5x3 prop. No break in. No starting and stopping or retightening . Fire it up and see how it goes. That was the original concept of the contest.... Maybe we can all meet somewhere in the middle. Lets not over think this!!!!! My best guess would be 49 minutes as the cylinder will heat up and expand, thus the engine stops running due to lack of compression. I've always seen the glass as half empty. That's just me, jumping the gun as usual!!! I think this test will be very surprising and informative for all of us Cox Engine lovers.

Mark,

It's a fair question, I guess. But since we had Bernie donate an engine to use, and Rene donate a quart of fuel, I want to ensure that the engine is treated as well as I can. I interpreted this as an endurance run and test of the engine as designed. I do not want to do anything that will be adverse to good running practices (I know, I know). I do not plan to start and stop the engine. It is an endurance test after all. But I do believe that a proper break in and piston reset is the best way to get the most longevity of the engine and minimize the chance of an engine failure. There is always the chance that the engine will suffer a failure. If it does, the point that it fails at will be determined to be the endurance limit of this particular engine. In that case, I will replace whatever parts have failed, and then send the rebuilt engine to whoever guessed closest to the stop time. My sincere hope is that the engine will not have a problem, and run the whole quart through. After all, it IS a Cox.

And besides, even it it were run straight out of the package with no prep, I still think it would last much longer than 49 minutes... Lack of compression is the last thing I would consider as a cause of the engine stopping. These things can run loose as hell. So long as you can get it started, it's gonna keep running until the fuel runs out or some other cause makes it stop.

The Cox Fanboy Mark
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Post  Mark Diedrichs on Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:50 pm

Thanks for taking this on Mark!!! If the engine should self destruct, I would be more than happy to donate a new one to the contest winner. Just let me know, that goes for parts, pieces or whatever is needed!! Mark
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Post  balogh on Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:28 am

In my experience 49 minutes is just a thorough break in for a COX engine...the factory endurance test had one engine run for 400 hours, and even if only with an electric starter but it could still be started up afterwards.
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