Cox Engines Forum
You are not logged in! Please login or register.

Logged in members see NO ADVERTISEMENTS!


Top Flight School boy Cox_ba12





Log in

I forgot my password

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» 19 inch Swinger by Frank Scott from December 1977 Model Aviation
by balogh Today at 1:27 am

» Building a gas powered windmill and now a boat
by davidll1984 Yesterday at 11:42 pm

» O&R 23 & Brown Jr
by GallopingGhostler Yesterday at 11:10 pm

» Perfect Tanks. Please enlighten me
by Ken Cook Yesterday at 7:48 pm

» Got the Wen Max Corsair today
by cstatman Yesterday at 7:40 pm

» A puzzle....whatisit
by rsv1cox Yesterday at 6:34 pm

» Pretty Bee
by rdw777 Yesterday at 2:20 pm

» "Forcing My Brain To Learn Things It Doesn't Want To Learn" Still Messing with the Dragon.
by andrew Yesterday at 10:50 am

» Scientifc Stunt Trainer
by rdw777 Yesterday at 7:27 am

» .020 Pee Wee won't start (solved!)
by thomaslowery Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:48 pm

» Space Bug Jr Crank - WANTED
by AMCGUY Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:11 pm

» Cox PeeWee Micro Speeder
by 1/2A Nut Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:01 pm

Cox Engine of The Month
June-2022
balogh's

"COX Tee Dee .051 on duty"



PAST WINNERS
CEF Traveling Engine

Dick Russ Models
Win This Engine!
Forum Store
CEF Ear Savers
Gallery


Top Flight School boy Empty

Top Flight School boy

Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Top Flight School boy

Post  dankar04 Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:03 pm

I built one many years ago and put in a TD .020. It flew nice and lost it twice. Amazing is I got it back both times. Pays to put your name on airplane. Anyway bought another kit several years ago and just took a good look. It shows the .010 in nose. Explains why older one was so fast. I think the .010 will not be power I like but there is a smaller version. Member here shed light on a kit called Pageboy. I bought a few 5gm. servo's and have a couple lite recievers and battery pacls. Ken Willard designed School Boy and made many nice planes.
Dan
dankar04
dankar04
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Posts : 716
Join date : 2011-08-13
Age : 75
Location : Tucson,Az.

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  nitroairplane Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:08 pm

Ah yes,
Well if you want it to be less fast you could mount the prop backwards on it that always helped me.
nitroairplane
nitroairplane
Top Poster
Top Poster

Posts : 6956
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : London

http://modeldieselengines.forumstopic.com/

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  andrew Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:59 pm

Here's a look at both for you folks.

Top Flight School boy Pagebo10

Top Flight School boy Pagebo11

Top Flight School boy School10
andrew
andrew
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1518
Join date : 2011-08-11
Age : 74
Location : Western Kentucky

http://web2.murraystate.edu/andy.batts/ps/POWERSUPPLY.HTM

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty similar

Post  Jaspur_x Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:16 pm

That side view drawing of the profile gives a likeness similar to the Ace Wizzard,another nice flying plane Rolling Eyes
Jaspur_x
Jaspur_x
Banned

Posts : 710
Join date : 2011-04-22
Age : 49
Location : Shanksville,Pa, yes that flight 93 place

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  andrew Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:25 am

Jaspur_x wrote:That side view drawing of the profile gives a likeness similar to the Ace Wizzard,another nice flying plane Rolling Eyes

It does. The two planes are very similar from the side. One thing to note is that Ken Willard had a unique fin and rudder shape that appeared on almost all the planes he designed. By using a swept back rudder hinge on RO planes, any rudder input will also tend to hold the nose up in the turns. This can be demonstrated with your hand or 3x5 card. Hold your left hand straight up and rotate at the wrist, like a rudder. A vertical hinge gives only yaw. Now tilt your hand or card and do the same; being angled adds some pitch-up input and reduces the tendency to sprial down during turning.

Owen Kampen was also a prolific designer of small planes and used a lot of innovative construction materials in his models. The Whizard looks very much like Dick's Dream, one of Kampen's classic 1/4A designs, also kitted by ACE.

Top Flight School boy Whizar10
andrew
andrew
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1518
Join date : 2011-08-11
Age : 74
Location : Western Kentucky

http://web2.murraystate.edu/andy.batts/ps/POWERSUPPLY.HTM

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Schoolboy

Post  dankar04 Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:18 am

Kit I have wing is all sheet with ribs and l/e etc. Most wood is still good shape except for l/e has a bow but I straighten that out or replace. I have space problem and these little guys will help for now. Need to do major organazation around here to fit it all. I like RC/Uc and FF so its tough to find room but possible. My smallest engine is .010 thru .80 four stroke. Its all good.
Dan
dankar04
dankar04
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Posts : 716
Join date : 2011-08-13
Age : 75
Location : Tucson,Az.

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  aeroalexer Mon May 07, 2012 4:34 am

Good post! I am really looking for a set of Ken Willards Schoolboy plans. There is a grace and beauty to his designs which I like most of Ken Willard's designs. But I have a bit of an issue with the wing construction. Fully sheeted?
aeroalexer
aeroalexer
New Member
New Member

Posts : 1
Join date : 2012-05-07

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  Kim Mon May 07, 2012 7:48 am

Here's a scan from an old plan book I have that includes several of Mr. Willard's designs. It's not as detailed as Andrew's fine copy, but thought I'd post it to show the plan / instruction sheet that came with the kit.

Wonderful old planes !

Top Flight School boy School10
Kim
Kim
Top Poster
Top Poster

2020 Supporter

2021 Supporter

2022 Supporter

Posts : 7974
Join date : 2011-09-06
Location : South East Missouri

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  andrew Mon May 07, 2012 9:06 am

I have the sheet Kim posted in PDF --- it can be scaled so the instructions are readable. I also have the original article by Ken Willard in PDF. We can't post PDFs here, but if any of you are interested, PM me your email address and I ship out what you want.
andrew
andrew
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1518
Join date : 2011-08-11
Age : 74
Location : Western Kentucky

http://web2.murraystate.edu/andy.batts/ps/POWERSUPPLY.HTM

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  rdw777 Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:41 am

I know this is an old thread but wanted to ask Andrew if he still had the pdf from the old plan book…. I have the OZ plan but the pdf shows a little more detail for sheeted wing from kit version…. I would appreciate it if you could Andrew….. Photo shows one I built in ‘04 for electro power…. Would like to do one for .020 now…

Robert

Top Flight School boy 9953ac10
rdw777
rdw777
Gold Member
Gold Member

2022 Supporter

Posts : 296
Join date : 2021-03-11
Location : West Texas

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  andrew Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:31 pm

Robert --
I'm away from home currently, but I will look when I get back. I seldom delete anything, but did have a drive failure some time ago. I had a drive image saved and used to restore a new drive, but anything that was added between the image creation and restoration is lost.
However, the chances are quite good that I will have it.
andrew
andrew
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1518
Join date : 2011-08-11
Age : 74
Location : Western Kentucky

http://web2.murraystate.edu/andy.batts/ps/POWERSUPPLY.HTM

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  rdw777 Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:46 pm

Thank you Andrew, No worries if you don’t have it, I lost a bunch of stuff on a hard drive crash too in the past. Please, only at your convenience to look for it, I’m in no hurry… Very Happy
rdw777
rdw777
Gold Member
Gold Member

2022 Supporter

Posts : 296
Join date : 2021-03-11
Location : West Texas

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  GallopingGhostler Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:30 pm

Robert, I built this back in early 1973 from the kit. I gather that Top Flite was the clipped wing version at 27" wingspan, shown as the dotted outline on the RCM plan built up wing. I also gather that the only difference between the two, kit plan and RCM plan is the wing. However, there is enough detail in Andrew's graphic of the plan to build the kit version, by observing the kit rib spacing, follow construction example in the Outerzone R/C Schoolgirl wing, use 1/20th sheet and space ribs for planked sheet version. Use a 3/16th or 1/4th inch square leading edge, sand top to match contour of ribs, then sheet top.

Built it in my spare moments as a student at the US Army Element, Naval School of Music at Little Creek Amphibious Base in the Norfolk area. It was small enough to fit inside the built in wall locker.

Later, may be 10 years ago, I ordered the RCM plan. This was to make up for the lost original one that I had ordered as a teen back in 1967. RCM then had a sale on their plans. The Schoolboy was one of them. Then, I had dreamed of saving enough money to purchase one of the new single channel with escapement transistor radio systems on 27 MHz AM band.

Mine had the cheaper, simpler music wire landing gear, with divotted ends to rubber band to one dowel versus the dural gear of yours.

The 36" Schoolboy with built up wing would probably be a sweet flyer on Tee Dee .020 power.

The Schoolboy was my first R/C airplane. It taught me how to fly R/C, and single channel at that. Without an instructor, it was my instructor. My instruction manual was the manual that came with my Ace R/C Pulse Commander system. It showed all the basics in learning to fly.
GallopingGhostler
GallopingGhostler
Top Poster
Top Poster

Posts : 3066
Join date : 2013-07-13
Location : Clovis, NM

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  rdw777 Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:04 pm

Thank you for your reply and experience with the Schoolboy George…. You are correct, There’s enough info available to build the sheet covered wings, Just didn’t want to miss some little detail, Plus I just think the old drawing is beautiful in itself…. Don’t want Andrew to go to too much trouble just because of that Very Happy

If I had the room and it was less windy here I would try it single channel with a PeeWee in a minute…. Where I’m flying I need to be able to penetrate a little breeze and plop it down in a small clearing so I plan to use RET…I won a throttled PerWee on the bay but plan to use its upper end on the lower end of a TeeDee .020…

The electric one in the photo was a very sweet flyer on three channels… I was impressed on how it handled a little wind so I thought why not do it in gas power… Like it was designed for Very Happy …. It and its big brother Schoolmaster were about the most stable, predictable RC’s I’ve flown. A good platform to experiment with.
rdw777
rdw777
Gold Member
Gold Member

2022 Supporter

Posts : 296
Join date : 2021-03-11
Location : West Texas

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  Levent Suberk Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:11 pm

avatar
Levent Suberk
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1540
Join date : 2017-12-24
Location : Turkey

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  rdw777 Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:35 pm

Yes Sir, That was a good deal for someone… Just to find a kit would be a rare bird these days..
rdw777
rdw777
Gold Member
Gold Member

2022 Supporter

Posts : 296
Join date : 2021-03-11
Location : West Texas

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  andrew Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:59 pm

Robert, my apologies.  I've gone through my files and was not able to locate the sheeted wing Top Flight version.  I had 7 schoolboy files, but none that we wanted. You are, of course, welcome to any that I have.
andrew
andrew
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1518
Join date : 2011-08-11
Age : 74
Location : Western Kentucky

http://web2.murraystate.edu/andy.batts/ps/POWERSUPPLY.HTM

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  rdw777 Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:39 pm

No worries at all Andrew, Thank you so much for looking….. As George indicated, There’s enough info on the OZ plan to build the sheeted wing…. Right now I’m tracing and cutting templates from poster board…. Then will cut a kit of parts…. I’ll start a thread on it when I have enough to start…. Thank you and George again Very Happy

Robert
rdw777
rdw777
Gold Member
Gold Member

2022 Supporter

Posts : 296
Join date : 2021-03-11
Location : West Texas

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  GallopingGhostler Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:59 pm

Robert, you may want to ping @Kim if he has the T/F Schoolboy plan sheet. He posted a photo, but it is low resolution. However, the details in the construction illustrations are clear enough to make out rib spacing, etc.

I was wrong about stating RCM, it was MAN. They had a plan sale listed in their magazine, as a 13 YO I placed a mail order for the plan plus 2 others, Paul Del Gatto's .020 Pee Wee powered profile T-6 Texan trainer and one other, think it was a sleak looking Jetex glider.

Thing about MAN is they would discontinue certain plans after their popularity wore out, where as the others especially Flying Models would keep theirs. Then I'd have to resort to John Pond Plans while he was still living, or other sources. In this case, I think I went with an Internet auction seller of plans for it.

It was basically a full scale up of the MAN plan page, but was clear enough to pass for a regular plan, ditto with the Roaring 20, Ken Willard's answer to a Pee Wee .020 or Tee Dee .010 version of his Top Dawg pylon racer.

The Roaring 20 was my second plane, using the same Pee Wee that was on the Schoolboy. Talk about a real blast to fly! Being smaller with less wing area, it was faster, more maneuverable than the Schoolboy, did all the stunts in the rudder only handbook. And, all this was with no throttle, true rudder only.

The other blast was Minnie Mambo, lightweight with silk covered wing and then new Cox .049 R/C Bee engine. On KRD sequential throttle, it was the ultimate in half-A rudder only flight. Could do 2 loops after a strong spiral dive.

I'm in the same boat as you with dry windy southwest weather. Wind penetration is a must, and requires at least elevator added.
GallopingGhostler
GallopingGhostler
Top Poster
Top Poster

Posts : 3066
Join date : 2013-07-13
Location : Clovis, NM

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  rdw777 Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:27 am

Hi George, The low resolution photo I really tells the story well enough… The OZ plan has center section width and tip shape…. From there it’s a simple matter of dividing out the spaces for the number of ribs shown….. Mostly just love the old draftsman’s drawing….

Yes single channel is still intriguing…. The Minnie Mambo with throttle and rudder sounds particularly nice…. Don’t go giving me more ideas!! Very Happy …..I like reading some of those old articles on trimming and stunting S/C…. A lot of angular trim and wing loading talk…It’s amazing what could be achieved with just a rudder…,If you get a chance read the article on the High Q by Jack Port…. I think it’s in OZ….A lot of design philosophy on S/C and flying in different weather conditions….
rdw777
rdw777
Gold Member
Gold Member

2022 Supporter

Posts : 296
Join date : 2021-03-11
Location : West Texas

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  GallopingGhostler Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:07 am

Robert, pure rudder only is truly a blast to fly, but it requires relatively calm winds. One can fly in winds up to 15 mph, but it requires adding a shim to the trailing edge of a high wing or leading edge of an over the fuse stabilizer (or other places, if oriented differently. Shim varies, with the Schoolboy in a 15 mph breeze, I'd shim the back side of the wing about 3/32". It would climb less and have a faster glide, but I was still flying. Shimming reduces stuntability. But, it made me understand how one could actually successfully fly rudder only pylon, which apparently was a contest classification back in the late 1950's.

With engine control, one can put a more powerful engine on, it gives a sense of elevator control. On the 39" Top Flite Schoolmaster, I powered with an 1965 OS Max .10R/C. At full throttle, it would climb out at a 45 degree angle. at half throttle, it flew like it had an .049 reed valve, with a gentle climb. At idle, I could shoot touch and goes if I wanted.

If you want wild stunting, a stronger engine is the way to go.

One could take the 36" full wing version of the Schoolboy, put on a Golden Bee or other reedie (Sure Start and 1 ounce tank), a throttle sleeve or choke tube choker throttle or tank Bee needle throttle up the venturi. Then it would really be a blast. On a 1 ounce tank, one would have probably a good 20 minutes of flight time.

This is why I bought the kit, a 1965 Lou Andrews 50" S-Ray, which was originally designed for single channel. It could be flown on a Fox .15X or non-throttled Medallion .09 in pure single channel, or up to a .19 like my Enya .19-VI TV on throttle. (It is a misnomer, because it has the same HP as the 1974 OS Max .15R/C (non-Scheurle version). Kit plan shows the Cox .09 Medallion with optional throttle installed. (I bought the kit in 1983 from Sherrill's Hobbies in Little Rock, AR.)

Top Flight School boy 00314
Outerzone photo used, but I have the kit.

Ditto with my 1963 Frank Zaic Aero Star (a weird swept wing cabin). On pure single channel, it shows an OS Pet .099 on the plans. (I bought this kit from America's Hobby Center in the early 1990's, when they were having a clearance on all their old inventory.)

Top Flight School boy Aerost13
48" Aero Models R/C Aero Star by Frank Zaic

Top Flight School boy Aerost14
Box label off my R/C Aero Star kit. I supplied this (with a little clean up) to Outerzone for added info.

But alas, here locally, I'd have to have a functional elevator. (Of course, I could disconnect the elevator servo and lock the linkage if I happened on a calm day). They are bucket list builds.
GallopingGhostler
GallopingGhostler
Top Poster
Top Poster

Posts : 3066
Join date : 2013-07-13
Location : Clovis, NM

Back to top Go down

Top Flight School boy Empty Re: Top Flight School boy

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum