Cox Engines Forum
You are not logged in! Please login or register! Guests are limited to posting in the "General Questions (Guest Posting Allowed)" section only. Becoming a member is fast, easy and FREE!


Dumb question Babe_b10
Log in

I forgot my password

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» Sig Deweybird 1/2A
by Marleysky Today at 12:21 am

» Remote control planes
by Marleysky Today at 12:10 am

» external fuel tanks
by Surfer_kris Today at 12:06 am

» How's the weather?
by Oldenginerod Yesterday at 11:10 pm

» Nylon tubing
by jbanes1961 Yesterday at 11:05 pm

» Screws For Engines
by ffkiwi Yesterday at 11:04 pm

» Lookie Here
by --Oz-- Yesterday at 10:42 pm

» Carl Goldberg Skylane 42
by NEW222 Yesterday at 10:29 pm

» Late Find Possible Meteor Shower Thursday November 21
by NEW222 Yesterday at 9:18 pm

» Hidden Gem Finds
by DrCox Yesterday at 9:13 pm

Cox Engine of The Month
November-2019
jmcalata's

"Pee Wee .020 throttled combinated"



PAST WINNERS
CEF Traveling Engine

Win This Engine!
The Traveling Prop
Gallery


Dumb question Empty
World of Aviation

Dumb question

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Go down

Dumb question Empty Dumb question

Post  jbanes1961 on Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:39 pm

Does a cox engine run clockwise or counterclockwise (looking at front of engine). Just trying to make sure I have this starting spring installed correctly.
jbanes1961
jbanes1961
Bronze Member
Bronze Member

Posts : 47
Join date : 2019-10-29
Age : 58
Location : NW Indiana...30min south of Chicago

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Marleysky on Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:59 pm

If you have a reed valve engine, BabeBee, Golden Bee, Black Widow or product engine, it will run both CW and CCW. The spring assist starters are available in Left Hand or Right Hand configurations, for use in tractor or pusher applications.
The TD engines will only run in one direction, right hand as standard. There are crankshafts available to make one run Left handed
Now, determining LH or RH, or CW or CCW .....I am not sure if viewed from in front of engine or from behind , I’ll look around and see if there is a default position!
Marleysky
Marleysky
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

2019 Supporter

Posts : 2419
Join date : 2014-09-28
Age : 67
Location : Grand Rapids, MI

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Marleysky on Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:14 pm

The engine instructions seem to be determined being in Front.

Dumb question 3a634110
Marleysky
Marleysky
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

2019 Supporter

Posts : 2419
Join date : 2014-09-28
Age : 67
Location : Grand Rapids, MI

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Oldenginerod on Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:38 pm

jbanes1961 wrote:Does a cox engine run clockwise or counterclockwise  (looking at front of engine). Just trying to make sure I have this starting spring installed correctly.

I don't think it's possible to install the spring the wrong way- It just won't fit. The spring you have will determine the direction of rotation.
Oldenginerod
Oldenginerod
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2755
Join date : 2012-06-15
Age : 57
Location : Victoria, Australia

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Cox International on Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:02 pm

Rotation is measured from the pilot's seat RC Plane
Cox International
Cox International
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Official Cox Dealer
Posts : 2824
Join date : 2011-08-08
Age : 61
Location : Williams Lake, BC, Canada

http://www.coxengines.com

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Surfer_kris on Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:12 pm

Cox International wrote:Rotation is measured from the pilot's seat RC Plane

On real airplanes and our RC planes yes, that would seem the best way to define it. But with the advent of Quad copters they now seem to look at it from the front instead....  Rolling Eyes

So LH (left-handed) and RH (right-handed) are a much better designations, as it doesn't matter where you stand or sit, a right-handed thread is always a right-handed thread.

Master Airscrew is adding yet another term N (normal) for when the prop should rotate CCW when seen from the front:
https://www.masterairscrew.com/pages/pusher-vs-tractor-propellers
Surfer_kris
Surfer_kris
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1637
Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Cox International on Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:52 pm

(So LH (left-handed) and RH (right-handed) are a much better designations)

But, depending on where one stands, LH becomes RH and RH becomes LH. Behind a RH prop, it turn CW, relative to sight. In front of the same prop it turns CCW, relative to sight.

We ran into confused customers all the time with our props and springs, until we specified the position relative to the prop on our listings, because customers sometimes (often) viewed rotation when in front of the airplane and ended up buying the wrong prop or spring. We rarely run into this issue now Smile

Cox International
Cox International
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Official Cox Dealer
Posts : 2824
Join date : 2011-08-08
Age : 61
Location : Williams Lake, BC, Canada

http://www.coxengines.com

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  jbanes1961 on Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:43 am

Thanks again for the great responses. Armed with a little more knowledge, I dont believe that the spring can be installed wrong. It seems to be idiot proof for the most part. And it winds and releases in the same directions as the instructions that were posted suggests. So I think I'm in good shape. So this particular engine and spring set up runs the engine in a right hand direction as seen from the pilots seat😁. Thank you all so much.
jbanes1961
jbanes1961
Bronze Member
Bronze Member

Posts : 47
Join date : 2019-10-29
Age : 58
Location : NW Indiana...30min south of Chicago

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Cox International on Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:33 am

It is virtually impossible to install the spring wrong.

The issue that can arise is a mis-match between spring and prop Embarassed

One other issue to consider is whether the engines have round or hex-shaped drive-plates, as the springs are different for each version and are not interchangeable unless one also changes the drive-plate.
Cox International
Cox International
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Official Cox Dealer
Posts : 2824
Join date : 2011-08-08
Age : 61
Location : Williams Lake, BC, Canada

http://www.coxengines.com

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Surfer_kris on Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:56 am

Cox International wrote:
But, depending on where one stands, LH becomes RH and RH becomes LH.

No, that is not correct. A righthanded (RH) screw is always a righthand threaded screw, no matter where you stand or view it from. You will always tighten a RH threaded bolt in same direction, there is never any question about how it works.

A righthanded airscrew works the same way. There is no question in what way it should be rotate in order to move forward. It is only when one starts to talk about CW and CCW that things become "complicated" as now it is dependent on where you stand or watch the airscrew from.
Surfer_kris
Surfer_kris
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1637
Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Surfer_kris on Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:59 am

Cox International wrote:
We ran into confused customers all the time with our props and springs, until we specified the position relative to the prop on our listings, because customers sometimes (often) viewed rotation when in front of the airplane and ended up buying the wrong prop or spring. We rarely run into this issue now Smile

If you are defining it by looking from the cockpit, you will be doing the opposite way to the quad market and master airscrew (as I linked to above), so yes this is surely an issue.
Surfer_kris
Surfer_kris
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1637
Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  jbanes1961 on Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:57 pm

If I'm looking at prop from front, it is rotating to the left, if I'm looking at prop from cockpit it is rotating to the right. Even tho a screw is tightened to the right if I'm looking at it and it will always tighten to the right, if I'm standing behind the screw, I will be turning it toward my left hand to tighten it. That seems more confusing than having a definite orientation that is always used. If it had a standard orientation, then cw and ccw would work fine. The only confusion seems to be which way to view the engine. Is that clear as mud?
jbanes1961
jbanes1961
Bronze Member
Bronze Member

Posts : 47
Join date : 2019-10-29
Age : 58
Location : NW Indiana...30min south of Chicago

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Surfer_kris on Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:03 pm

Well, do you ever have to think about which direction to tighten the prop nut?
That is usually very clear to most people and that is a RH thread. Then depending on where you stand one can easily work out which way it should be turned. Would you really prefer to call screw threads by CW and CCW instead?

A RH prop work exactly the same as a RH screw, and it is easy enough to understand, isn't it...? Huh...


Last edited by Surfer_kris on Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
Surfer_kris
Surfer_kris
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1637
Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Cox International on Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:04 pm

Surfer_kris wrote:
Cox International wrote:
We ran into confused customers all the time with our props and springs, until we specified the position relative to the prop on our listings, because customers sometimes (often) viewed rotation when in front of the airplane and ended up buying the wrong prop or spring. We rarely run into this issue now Smile

If you are defining it by looking from the cockpit, you will be doing the opposite way to the quad market and master airscrew (as I linked to above), so yes this is surely an issue.

Yes, with quads it seems to be different because one is looking onto the rotors (or whatever those four whirlygigs are called). However, as we cater to the Cox community, we adapted the Cox formula for rotation; whereas their starter cams are stamped "L" and "R" and some of their LH props are stamped "L.H."; basically as viewed from the cockpit.

It gets really interesting when someone inquires about a pusher-prop and we recommend a LH prop, mounted "hub-reversed" and run RH (to maintain leading / trailing edges). That's enough to even confuse us here. lol!
Cox International
Cox International
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Official Cox Dealer
Posts : 2824
Join date : 2011-08-08
Age : 61
Location : Williams Lake, BC, Canada

http://www.coxengines.com

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Cox International on Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:08 pm

Surfer_kris wrote:Well, do you ever have to think about which direction to tighten the prop nut?
That is usually clear to most people and that is a RH thread. A RH prop work exactly the same.

Yes.

But for our LH props (original Cox production from decades ago), that are stamped L.H., we still tighten the screw RH.

In no way implying that any of what has been stated in this thread is wrong but simply saying that we took over how Cox did this (and presumably other engine manufacturers in the past), in order to maintain continuity.

Admittedly, before we expressly clarified this on our listings, we did end up with some buyers getting the opposite of what they thought they were buying.

Cox International
Cox International
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Official Cox Dealer
Posts : 2824
Join date : 2011-08-08
Age : 61
Location : Williams Lake, BC, Canada

http://www.coxengines.com

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Surfer_kris on Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:11 pm

Cox International wrote:
It gets really interesting when someone inquires about a pusher-prop and we recommend a LH prop, mounted "hub-reversed" and run RH (to maintain leading / trailing edges). That's enough to even confuse us here. lol!

Yes, that would indeed be very confusing as a LH screw/thread can never be turned into a RH one! affraid

Surfer_kris
Surfer_kris
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1637
Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Cox International on Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:19 pm

Surfer_kris wrote:
Cox International wrote:
It gets really interesting when someone inquires about a pusher-prop and we recommend a LH prop, mounted "hub-reversed" and run RH (to maintain leading / trailing edges). That's enough to even confuse us here. lol!

Yes, that would indeed be very confusing as a LH screw/thread can never be turned into a RH one! affraid


Not even by a skilled Swedish machinist? Damn!
Cox International
Cox International
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Official Cox Dealer
Posts : 2824
Join date : 2011-08-08
Age : 61
Location : Williams Lake, BC, Canada

http://www.coxengines.com

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  jbanes1961 on Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:25 pm

I would never call screw threads by cw or ccw. But if someone asked me what direction that prop that's rotating in a large circle (almost like a clock face) is turning, I'd most definitely describe it as cw or ccw..that just me u understand. Been doing it like that for 55+ yrs. Hard teaching old dog new tricks....I guess
jbanes1961
jbanes1961
Bronze Member
Bronze Member

Posts : 47
Join date : 2019-10-29
Age : 58
Location : NW Indiana...30min south of Chicago

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Surfer_kris on Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:26 pm

Cox International wrote:
However, as we cater to the Cox community, we adapted the Cox formula for rotation; whereas their starter cams are stamped "L" and "R" and some of their LH props are stamped "L.H."; basically as viewed from the cockpit.

L for a left-handed thread and R for right-handed thread is very clear, there can never be any confusion between the two.

The problem arrises when you start to talk about CW and CCW as seen from the cockpit.
In order for that to work you would have to clarify if the cockpit is behind or in front of prop...
Below is one example, should these props now be labeled differently just because the engines are behind the cockpit rather than in front of it?

Of coarse not, they are obviously RH props (and work just like a right-handed thread), independent on where the cockpit or the viewer happens to be positioned.  Shh

Dumb question 1458779277727
Surfer_kris
Surfer_kris
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1637
Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Surfer_kris on Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:29 pm

Cox International wrote:
Not even by a skilled Swedish machinist? Damn!

Not while keeping the same diameter... Wink
Surfer_kris
Surfer_kris
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1637
Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Cox International on Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:32 pm

jbanes1961 wrote:I would never call screw threads by cw or ccw. But if someone asked me what direction that prop that's rotating in a large circle (almost like a clock face) is turning, I'd most definitely describe it as cw or ccw..that just me u understand. Been doing it like that for 55+ yrs. Hard teaching old dog new tricks....I guess

Yes, CW and CCW are definitely correct definitions but, IMO, the gist of the thread is from what side of the prop (behind or in front of it) this is determined.
Cox International
Cox International
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Official Cox Dealer
Posts : 2824
Join date : 2011-08-08
Age : 61
Location : Williams Lake, BC, Canada

http://www.coxengines.com

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Cox International on Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:37 pm

Surfer_kris wrote:
Cox International wrote:
However, as we cater to the Cox community, we adapted the Cox formula for rotation; whereas their starter cams are stamped "L" and "R" and some of their LH props are stamped "L.H."; basically as viewed from the cockpit.

L for a left-handed thread and R for right-handed thread is very clear, there can never be any confusion between the two.

The problem arrises when you start to talk about CW and CCW as seen from the cockpit.
In order for that to work you would have to clarify if the cockpit is behind or in front of prop...
Below is one example, should these props now be labeled differently just because the engines are behind the cockpit rather than in front of it?

Of coarse not, they are obviously RH props (and work just like a right-handed thread), independent on where the cockpit or the viewer happens to be positioned.  Shh

Dumb question 1458779277727

Excellent point:) Perhaps there is a better definition? I guess what we are trying to say is that we had to come up with a yardstick for OUR props and springs so that buyers choose correctly and we took over the (old-school) Cox labeling as we are purveyors of Cox products.

Perhaps we should acquire a quad for the office to really make our old heads spin lol!
Cox International
Cox International
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Official Cox Dealer
Posts : 2824
Join date : 2011-08-08
Age : 61
Location : Williams Lake, BC, Canada

http://www.coxengines.com

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Surfer_kris on Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:56 pm

jbanes1961 wrote:But if someone asked me what direction that prop that's rotating in a large circle (almost like a clock face) is turning, I'd most definitely describe it as cw or ccw..that just me u understand.


I know that time sometimes "flies", but it is not actually going anywhere...

So which one would you use then?
CCW as in when you are flipping the prop to start the engine or CW as when you are "inside the cockpit" of a typical profile CL plane?  Huh...

If instead you think of the prop as an "air-screw", which it really is anyway, then all the confusion is gone. Smile
This is also the old-school definition by Cox, so no problem there.

In order to explain or remember how a righthanded thread works one can easily use the right hand. Place the imaginary engine axis in the palm along the thumb and the other four fingers wrapped around the axis in the direction of the rotation. A righthanded airscrew (R or RH marking) will then travel in the direction that the thumb is pointing in.

Dumb question Hand10
Surfer_kris
Surfer_kris
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1637
Join date : 2010-11-20
Location : Sweden

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  NEW222 on Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:58 pm

And now my head is spinning! Lol. Time for a drink with my old pal Jack D. and rethink things again.
NEW222
NEW222
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2385
Join date : 2011-08-13
Age : 41
Location : oakbank, mb

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  smooth_bill on Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:21 pm

Since when do we modelers determine direction of prop rotation from behind the prop? That is just a confusion factor, that should not be mentioned here.

Regarding model airplane builders, our only consideration is which way to flip the prop for starting, or to spin it with a starter.

Prop labels can get a little confusing, but generally are not labeled with CCW or CW, and seldom if ever with RH, or LH.

Some shops label reverse pitch props "Pusher", because on normal CCW turning engines, they push a vehicle forward from the rear end of the engine and airplane. That was the original use for brass prop drivers, to minimize wear between the prop drive washer, and aluminum crankcase nose.

Bill
smooth_bill
smooth_bill
Gold Member
Gold Member

2019 Supporter

Posts : 118
Join date : 2012-02-19
Age : 82
Location : Beaverton, OR

Back to top Go down

Dumb question Empty Re: Dumb question

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum