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Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

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Wanted Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  NEW222 on Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:48 pm

So I thought I brought this up before, but cannot find anything. Last year, I picked up this plane from the estate of a fellow modeller, not knowing what it was. Turns out it is a Goldberg Skylane 42. Wing and horizontal stab/elevator were all white plastic covering that needed a cleaning. Fuselage was white, red, and black dope that was badly cracking. So I had to remove it. Sanding was not going well, so I resorted to a razor blade. Windows were cracked, front nose gear was ripped out from the former. first step was clean the wing and tail. Second was remove what was left of the windows and make templates. Second was strip the fuselage. Turned out not too bad with a few gouges here and there. I used lightweight spackle on the fuselage before priming and painting white to match the wing and tail. It is good from far, and far from good, has a flow indicator or two, but adds character. Very Happy If it survives this coming year, I may disassemble it again, and give it a nice paint job. I would like to repaint it the same as he had it in his honor, but I had lost a whole bunch of pictures and I no longer have anything of it in its prior state. So, now to add a stripe of sort to it. It was bare, so I installed a Futaba S-148 servo in it, and the mounts and control horn all lined up great! Besides that I need to install a battery, receiver, and a Golden Bee to match what the plans have listed. This should be interesting as a single channel rudder only model for someone learning to fly nitro RC in 2020.....

Carl Goldberg Skylane 42 S311
Carl Goldberg Skylane 42 S410
Carl Goldberg Skylane 42 S211
Carl Goldberg Skylane 42 S111
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  NEW222 on Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:29 pm

Also, any tips, help, opinions or experience with single channel planes are also welcome.
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  getback on Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:25 am

NEW222 wrote:Also, any tips, help, opinions or experience with single channel planes are also welcome.
Looks good from here , Left is Left , Right is Right (single channel) Kim would bee the one to tell you all he knows about flying them and maybe Rene RC Plane
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  DrCox on Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:38 am

From where I sit, that is a very nice restoration job. I was always, back in the day, going to fly single channel with the Ace Pulse Commander system, but alas too expensive. I'll bee following your progress as a single channel rudder plane. Thumbs Up
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  Kim on Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:52 am

Probably be a good idea to get Tony in here for some comments, he's also logged a LOT of rudder-only flying.

Most of the stuff you need to know is on the plan sheet if you have it, but most of the rules apply to both rudder flying and others with more controls.

You can treat it as a free flight plane as far as it's set-up:  It's important to have the CG correct, which is usually a bit past 1/3 of the chord back from the leading edge, AND something that's often neglected---the "left and right" CG.  This helps the plane fly true and straight when you're not giving it a control command.

I like to sit the plane on a high table or shelf, and sight it head-on from ten-twenty feet.  This makes it easier to see if the wings have any twist, and also how the tail lines up with the fuselage and wing.

You certainly don't need much throw in the rudder...at least for the first flights.  A heavy input of rudder can roll the plane into a dive that can't be saved.  An 1/8th" in each direction will probably be enough.

The engine is usually mounted with some down and right thrust to help control the torque.

If you've got a hill with the proverbial "tall grass", some powerless glides might be a good idea.  Besides that, a BIG field is almost mandatory.  This will allow you to fly the plane without worrying about dodging obstacles...remember that any control input can cause the plane to dive, and it has to recover without elevator input.  Right turns are generally more friendly than left turns because the torque acts as a buffer.

With a huge field, you can let the plane glide down with just tiny inputs to keep it close to you.  This is all felt out in the test flights.  

Another GREAT idea is to test the engine on the plane to see how much fuel it takes to run it for 30 seconds or so after start-up, and do that for the first flights.  Trust me that 30 seconds can be a LONG time with a cranky-flying plane!

Hope this helps, I'm sure Tony would have more tips.

I "cheated" with my Goldberg Skylane back in the 1980's...adding an elevator to the little plane.  I also copied the paint scheme from the Skylane my brother flew with the Missouri Highway Patrol back in the day:

Carl Goldberg Skylane 42 2_79

Carl Goldberg Skylane 42 1_85

Carl Goldberg Skylane 42 3_128

Carl Goldberg Skylane 42 4_52

Carl Goldberg Skylane 42 6_38
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  NEW222 on Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:17 pm

Thank you all for the comments, help and replies. Kim, yours looks amazing. I had actually thought that was the real deal in the airport pictures. I also like the idea of timing it for a short runtime at first to see how it handles. Unfortunately, I do not have anything close for a hill to throw it off of. And lastly, I really appreciate the tips on the elevator control movement. I would have personally tried to get the max throws I could out of it! Shocked
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  GWILLIEFOX on Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:45 pm

O,Carl Goldberg Skylane 42 Cgsky010
Carl Goldberg Skylane 42 Cgsky011
My Fox 049 single channel Skylane.  Hundreds of flights.  Rudder only, Babcock escapement.  Trim it glide flat and straight.  If it won't fly without the radio, it won't fly with it.

Rudder only ships were trimmed to fly with a slight climb.  Upplying  rudder will cause a turn, but you can't just hold the rudder.  As the plane turns it will bank steeper and steeper dropping the nose.  So you must learn to apply rudder in short bursts.  

If you hold the rudder and get the nose down and apply opposite rudder, the plane will stop turning and the nose will be down.  This causes a lot extra airspeed and the ship will zoom up.  Learning to control this zoom will let you do rolls, loops, immelman turns, and wingovers, all with no elevator.

If you want to fly faster in a straight line, give it right the left rudder, reversing just as the nose drops.  Kind of like tacking.  

Don't let th3 plane get downwind.  You'll have to have mastered tacking to ever get it back.

Years of flying in a few sentences.
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  NEW222 on Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:17 pm

Thank you for the advice and tips. Greatly appreciated! ANother thing I learned now. Do NOT hold rudder in one direction. Definately something I would have done.
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  NEW222 on Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:17 pm

Ok. So just a little update. Not much new with the plane itself other than I installed a servo, and the Christmas Golden Bee. I put it on the scale with the battery pack I plan on using and a receiver. It will be a porky little thing weing in at 24 ounces overall, and that is no fuel. There is nothing I know of that I can do to shave off some weight. I should be able to place the battery pack as far forward as needed to get the correct balance. If not, it would only be a small amount of added weight to balance it out. I am not sure on the 5 x 3 propeller, whether or not it will be the right propeller. I will do some reading and possibly go to a 6 x 3. I would like to add some stripes or such, but that would only add to the weight, so may still leave them off. Depending on how it flies, I may add them after a couple of flights. So here she is with her powerplant installed.

Carl Goldberg Skylane 42 81991710
Carl Goldberg Skylane 42 82123710
Carl Goldberg Skylane 42 82007410

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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  dckrsn on Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:45 pm

If you have to add, here's 1/4 oz to hang as far forward (unless you shoot out a cantilever) as you can get.
Carl Goldberg Skylane 42 Hub10
I got a bunch of them from Dan Sitter(name drop) a few years ago. PM me, and I'll send ya one.
Bob
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  NEW222 on Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:21 pm

Thanks for the offer. I'm going to mount the electronics all tomorrow hopefully and will go from there. Thank you again.
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  dckrsn on Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:34 pm

NEW222 wrote:Thanks for the offer. I'm going to mount the electronics all tomorrow hopefully and will go from there. Thank you again.
Good luck tomorrow, enjoying the thread.
Bob
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  NEW222 on Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:49 pm

Ok. So my show ended and I wanted to get this thing ready. So I did install the switch, receiver, and battery pack. The pack I originally weighed it with was a bit light, so I swapped it out with my other NiCd battery for an extra .5 oz. I also decided to use an Orange Rx for it so shed a bit off there. With battery mounted under the dash/nose, and the receiver mounted as far forward as possible, I still need to add a bit of weight. Damn! So I went scrounging around and found a lead muzzleloader bullet looking for a home. So I placed /sat it right on top of the firewall. It now balanced just very slightly nose down on the C of G indicated on the plans of 2 1/2". But it also states on the build sheet that it is good from 2 1/8" - 2 13/16", but I opted for the main number given. When the weather decides to co-operate again (supposed to be beyond -40 F tonight and tomorrow morning), I will pound the bullet down to a manageable shape and glue it to the firewall. Then all will be done, except for the snow will be around till it gets the maiden! But please stay tuned for the flight report. Whether it be good or bad, I will update this.
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  NEW222 on Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:55 pm

Oops. Forgot to add that the final AUW ready to fly will now be a porky 25 ounces! Now to really read about what propeller will be best to lift this little porker! Very Happy
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  GWILLIEFOX on Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:38 am

Nice work new222. You time spent getting the correct balance will pay off. A tail heavy rudder only ship is a real nightmare.
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  getback on Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:30 am

chancey , i would run that engine with both props and see what the Rs are going to bee and how it runs (not tested) It has a single port like a BB that beeing the reason for the other SBs you now have , i think there was a two port maybe with bypasses , more power and that would swing the 6X3 alot better . Also remember the cly WILL unscrew without taking the engine off Happy New Year


Last edited by getback on Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:41 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add on)
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  NEW222 on Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:09 am

Thanks for the compliments. I will remove the engine again and bench run it first trying a couple different propeller and piston/cylinder combinations to see what I can get out of it. Now all this talk makes me want to fly! Darn weather. It did in face hit below -40 F here last night and is currently a nice warm -31 F now. Very Happy Just another reason I wish I lived somewhere warmer. It is too bad she is so porky cause if I did have more room to add weight, I would probably try on a set of skiis.
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  GallopingGhostler on Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:28 am

Nice work, New222, brings back memories. I built the same in 1978, used a Mattel pulse proportional rudder only for guidance and a Golden Bee for power. Lost it in a flash rainstorm in North Little Rock, AR. (Put it in the air and a strong updraft carried it away. Full rudder for down by spiraling didn't work. Shortly after, it rained hard. I was drenched by the time I made it to the truck 50 yards away.)
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  akjgardner on Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:34 am

Nice Airplane
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  roddie on Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:24 pm

NEW222 wrote:Thanks for the compliments. I will remove the engine again and bench run it first trying a couple different propeller and piston/cylinder combinations to see what I can get out of it. Now all this talk makes me want to fly! Darn weather. It did in face hit below -40 F here last night and is currently a nice warm -31 F now. Very Happy  Just another reason I wish I lived somewhere warmer. It is too bad she is so porky cause if I did have more room to add weight, I would probably try on a set of skiis.

Do you have a "Black Widow" back-end? The BW venturi is a larger diameter than the Golden Bee's is.  and you would get more out of your high-performance cylinders.

If you're planning to bench-run the engine.. you could opt to hot-rod it.. Eyebrows
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  NEW222 on Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:12 am

I do indeed have a Black Widow back end, but however it is attached to the Black Widow front end. It is destined for my 1/2a Stealth Sport, as that is what it calls for. But, now that you mention it, the Stealth Sport is lighter, so possibly putting the BW on the Skylane and the Golden Bee on the Stealth may work to my advantage as I am not looking for a screamer. Thanks for the great ideas.....
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:26 am

Being rudder only, I don't think you would want the engine performance too hot. A plane like this probably shouldn't fly too fast so you have a better chance of keeping up with what's going on due to the limited control.
Just surmising due to never having flown single Channel.
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  NEW222 on Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:33 am

Yeah, I do not want a hot rod by any means with a rudder only plane. This should make for an interesting flight for sure! But my concern is will the engine even get this thing off the ground? Very Happy I guess only time will tell. But I am thinking it will be a slower flyer, as these same engines haul sailplanes with more mass.
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:39 pm

A golden bee will be very mild power for it and should be considered as the most minimal power to use with it. Mine was covered in Monokote which made it a little heavy. The original one by the Carl Goldberg team that was reviewed in a magazine article was either lightweight silk or silkspan clear doped, then a minimal use of colored dope. (They didn't have Monokote until the late 1960's from what I remember.)

It moved out okay on it's power but took a while to gain altitude.

Having hotter performance in a rudder only is a lot of fun, but should not be tried until one gets the hang of rudder only flying. On rudder only, you want a limited engine run of several minutes max. A Medallion .09, OS Pet .099, OS Max .10, or Enya .09-III (all non-throttle versions from the 1960's) would make it into a very nice performer without being overly hot. A technique was to detune these engines, put on a milder prop like a 7x3 or an 8x4 backwards, etc. until trimmed. Then run it hot with the right prop for fun.

A hotter engine makes it spiral dive more aggressively for better stunting. You'll need it for the more advanced stunts like a Cuban 8, multiple loops and barrel rolls. Plus, the aircraft needs to trimmed right, which might be too much for a beginner but loads of fun advanced.

If employing throttle (which incidentally makes it more fun plus adds more control), an OS Max .15 R/C, Enya .15-III or IV R/C (from the 1960's) or a modern Schneurle .09 or .10 would be the right ticket. Push to max throttle and watch it climb out at a 45 degree angle.

My first rudder only with auxiliary throttle airplane was Ken Willard's Top Flight 39" Schoolmaster all balsa on Ace Pulse Commander and 1965 OS Max .10 R/C controlled by quick blip push button throttle from the Ace KRD sequential throttle. It went from high to medium to low back to high. It would move out at a 45 degree angle on full throttle, fly very .049 reedie like on middle throttle, and I could do touch and goes on low (idle).

I would amaze other flyers how much you can do with rudder and throttle only (no elevator nor ailerons).
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Wanted Re: Carl Goldberg Skylane 42

Post  NEW222 on Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:59 pm

Thanks for the information. I will give it a try with the Golden Bee, and if not very good, I will try a Black Widow. This rudder only flying sounds interesteing. I am looking forward to it.
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