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Anyone think that this may be a buildable/flyable C/L model? Babe_b10
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Anyone think that this may be a buildable/flyable C/L model? Empty

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Anyone think that this may be a buildable/flyable C/L model? Empty Anyone think that this may be a buildable/flyable C/L model?

Post  rsv1cox on Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:23 pm

Glider/F-104 is a contradiction in terms.  Without thrust the thing is a lead bird.  But I'm a big fan of the F-104 and the impossible doesn't scare me, but is it realistic?  

24" span.

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=7274

Anyone think that this may be a buildable/flyable C/L model? F-104_10

Day's are getting warmer/brighter and the loft where building occurs is becoming habitable again.

I printed it out. Maybe scale it down to an eighteen inch span and have Staples blow it up.
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Post  Marleysky on Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:47 pm

Ha! I wanna say No, ya can’t do it! Just so you will!
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Post  Ken Cook on Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:23 pm

And how were you going to power it without it looking funny? I have plans for a F-105 in 1/2A which is one I always wanted to build. I have to dig up the plans as it shares some similarities aside from the T-tail. I have managed to source the needle nose spinner and it all comes down to when I find the time. Bob, I worked with a plumber many years ago who was a F-104 pilot. I loved working on jobs with him as we would always converse about it.


Last edited by Ken Cook on Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Dave P. on Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:25 pm

Eighteen inch span makes it about 30" long, right?  I'm with Marleysky, there's no way you can make it fly.  Devil

Better start working on your dizziness prevention program. No
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Post  OhBee on Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:43 pm

Ducted fan Cox?....BTW...i hate jets!
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Post  NEW222 on Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:16 pm

I would say it is definately doable. However, a couple of things I would do if it was me in your situation.... Firstly, can I assume it will be .049, .051, or .061 powered? If so, there would be two ways I would build it. First would be either a full 'profile only' version, using flat sheet wings, tail, and fuselage. And as for option number two. Do a 'full fuse' build, but then again, I would still use profile sheet tail and wings for simplicity. As well, many 1/2a planes were all sheet wings and tails and flew just fine. I do not personally know how that particular airfoil would fly or handle in a c/l situation. This is however solely my opinion, and how I would personally tackle this plane.
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Post  roddie on Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:18 pm

Hi Robert, Browse the web for a Kress-Jet RK 709 fan unit for a Cox Tee Dee .09 glow engine.. or Enya .11

Anyone think that this may be a buildable/flyable C/L model? Rk-70910
Anyone think that this may be a buildable/flyable C/L model? Rk-70911

At 24" span.. I'd guess that this fan-unit would be more than up-to the task of powering that jet-model. Kress-Jet also made a smaller fan-unit designed for the Cox Tee-Dee .049/.051 glow engines.

Anyone think that this may be a buildable/flyable C/L model? Axiflo10
Anyone think that this may be a buildable/flyable C/L model? Kress_10

This would be a really cool project. I've always admired the ducted-fan powered Jet-models. They were around long-before the model axial-fan jet-engines were available. There's also some added/special support equipment; particularly an engine-starting "probe" which is an extended shaft for the electric-starter to engage the spinner on a fan that may be well-inside a duct.
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Post  MrGoodwreck on Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:59 pm

I hope you do pull it off,

I would love to see it. That just looks sexy
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Post  getback on Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:43 am

I think it would bee a cool build and very nice to LOOK at Wink Popcorn
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Post  rsv1cox on Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:49 am

Ken Cook wrote:And how were you going to power it without it looking funny? I have plans for a F-105 in 1/2A which is one I always wanted to build. I have to dig up the plans as it shares some similarities aside from the T-tail. I have managed to source the needle nose spinner and it all comes down to when I find the time.   Bob, I worked with a plumber many years ago who was a F-104 pilot. I loved working on jobs  with him as we would always converse about it.

Thanks to all for your responses, but it was Ken that hit the nail on it's head, especially with his first line.

At 3 am this morning after carrying old blind Spike the dog out to do his business, I got to thinking about this project.  Thought maybe duplicating my P-38 build for the F-104 using slab sided and triangular stock balsa to do the fuselage (remember the P-38 was built to scale, not to fly) and SIG airfoil for the wing, can't do that stick stuff anymore.  Ok that's settled.

Then thought about the tail, especially how to control the high up horizontal stab/elevator.  A guided rod from the bell-crank to a 90 degree pivot up through the vertical stab out to the elevator ought to do it, complicated but possible.  

Then thought about installing a Cox .049 engine into the nose and the trouble I had doing the same with my hollow log F-100 rebuild which in the one to one has a guppy type horizontal air intake.  Can't do that with a nitro engine, and it came out as a vertical intake looking nothing like the real thing.

Anyone think that this may be a buildable/flyable C/L model? F-100_13

Anyone think that this may be a buildable/flyable C/L model? P8220011

So, ducted fan occurred to me.  To complicated and probably beyond my limited capabilities.  But those that remember, there is a striking A-10 R/C Warthog ducted fan that has been profiled on these pages that is simply remarkable, and it flies as good as it looks.  

Went back to sleep with nothing settled.

Got up and had breakfast while reading Air Classis magazine regarding the F-104 Starfighter.  Written by "E.A. Seitz" a Royal Canadian Air Force pilot and authority on the F-104 and edited by the staff of Air Classics. A long and in-depth article that is the best and most honest history of the type that I have ever read.  First pages were glowing with the attributes of the F-104 and the thrill of flying it, last pages not so. Seems to put it mildly it was a widow maker, stalled easily, and a loser to the MIG 21.

Which got me to thinking about my conversations with Bill, my brothers fraternity roommate and good friend.  Both Bill and my brother were stocky well built guys that summers stayed in our cottage and worked in a local fence building industry.  Both were out of the norm wild fellows that thought it would be fun to shinny up the pole holding the Gulf Oil sign at a local gas station unbolt it and transport it to a frat dance to be used as a drum.  Later I found it covered in pine needles behind the cottage.

 
At nine years old I was not their favorite person and threats of severe bodily harm followed if I ever reveled it's location.  To get even I let their caged pet raccoons loose, but I digress.

 Some fifty years later all was forgiven when Bill and I discussed his flying career in the Air Force, he retired as a Colonel.  I kept wondering why he kept switching the conversations from the F-104 to the F-105 which he loved and flew in Vietnam.  Pinning him down I discovered that he was not a fan of the F-104 and now after reading the Air Classics article I understand why, shattering my illusions of the Fighter which was more of a recon and bomber platform.  

Anyone think that this may be a buildable/flyable C/L model? P8220013
Anyone think that this may be a buildable/flyable C/L model? P8220012

Edit add:

I'm also quite familiar with the F-105, but not like Bill is. I referred to it as the "Thud" a common descriptor for the type. Or so I thought. The first time I used it I could see Bill stiffen. The second time he called me on it. Within the F-105 community the term is unacceptable and never used. Your imagination as to what it meant.

The Republic F-105 Thunderchief was an American supersonic fighter-bomber used by the United States Air Force. Capable of Mach 2, it conducted the majority of strike bombing missions during the early years of the Vietnam War; it was the only American aircraft to have been removed from combat due to high loss rates.

Still thinking about what to do with the F-104, but I don't think I'm going to attempt it.
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Post  dirk gently on Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:53 am

Fantastic plane, the F-105. I saw it in a museum along the F-104, a Saab Viggen and an assortment of other planes of the era, and the Thunderchief made by far the biggest impression on me, I think mainly because of its sheer size. Its 20m length was just supper impressive, to the point of being almost overwhelming to look at.
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Post  trebor3170 on Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:51 am

With the wing as far back as it is, possibly a pusher engine in the tail???
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Post  fredvon4 on Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:06 am

https://www.motionrc.com/products/freewing-f-104-silver-70mm-edf-jet-pnp?gclid=Cj0KCQiAhojzBRC3ARIsAGtNtHWkOaHkaP-erc-vXxOmL7dP_RZgfgR6WN9KXLkiDLoFpo1rDINaUn8aAvEQEALw_wcB


long story elsewhere in these pages..as 10~11 year old cub scout our troop leader was married to a F-104 pilot on Taiwan....all of us got a family flight in a F104 trainer

A-10 cuz I did training with them and F-104 cuz the flight are my 2 (of many) favorit aircraft
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Post  rsv1cox on Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:56 am

trebor3170 wrote:With the wing as far back as it is, possibly a pusher engine in the tail???

You might have saved this project.  I hadn't thought of that.  It would be perfect as a pusher if done right. Counter balance that long nose and fuselage.  But there are complications.  From the book:

Not only does partial aileron give sufficient rate of rotation, but with maximum rotation the center of gravity of the long fuselage divides itself into two centers, one each for nose and tail. Remarkable fact but it doesn't apply to C/L.

Wish everyone had a chance to read the whole thing.  Best seat of the pants article that I have ever read.  For those not familiar with Air Classics, the editors are a crusty bunch not shy about offering opinions especially on their book reviews.  Also shows up in their editing.

And Dirk, mentioning the Saab Viggen immediately brought visions of delta wings and canards.  I can't remember what I had for supper last night, but mention a Fighter aircraft...……..

Anyone think that this may be a buildable/flyable C/L model? Saab_v10

Edit add:  Found the A-10

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=a10+warthog+rc&view=detail&mid=3ECF335675E8DC0335113ECF335675E8DC033511&FORM=VIRE

But this is the one I was talking about:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=a10+warthog+rc&&view=detail&mid=66441D11D12E82C3CD7F66441D11D12E82C3CD7F&rvsmid=3ECF335675E8DC0335113ECF335675E8DC033511&FORM=VDRVRV
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