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Cox Engine of The Month
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Dave P.'s

"Tee Dee .051"



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Post  Cribbs74 on Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:03 pm

Just picked these up from my Dad’s house. Saito FA-80 NIB, what looks to be a Norvel AME .061 and a decent Pee Wee which unfortunately has the prop screw broken off in the crank. I’ll have to see if I have a spare crank. I really like the Saito although, I have no idea what to put it on.

Ron

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Post  Levent Suberk on Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:04 pm

Like that FA 80. Very Happy
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Post  Cribbs74 on Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:09 pm

Thanks Levent! Me too. I have a couple large  RC kits, can’t remember what displacement they require though.

Does anybody know what a 2 stroke displacement equivalent is to a 4 stroke?
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Post  Ken Cook on Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:53 pm

Ron, the .80 would fly a .60 size control line plane provided it wasn't a boat anchor. The 4 stroke craze fizzled out a few years back and those that switched opted for the PA .75's. The problem is that electric motors have even performed superior to both. The Saito .80 I believe is a lot of weight somewhere in the 19 oz. range. I suppose this is good if your flying a Fokker Triplane.


Last edited by Ken Cook on Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  modelbuilder49 on Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:05 pm

Greetings!  Older four cycle engines were thought to be about 60-65% of the equivalent 2 cycle engine.  From what I remember, there was a general rule of thumb that could be applied to the power spread between the older class of 4 strokes versus 2 strokes but as technology advanced that rule of thumb shrank significantly and the guide became dependent on the flight speed and weight of the model.  For example in the late 70's and early 80's a 2 stroke .40 was comparable to a 4 stroke 60, a 2 stroke 60 was comparable to a 4 stroke 120.  However today, with the advances in design, efficiency, propeller selection, I would suggest your Saito 80 would be comparable to a good strong 60-75 2 stroke yet based on the type of plane, stunt, scale vs trainer.  I have my older model Saito 80 swinging a 14x6 prop on a 96" wingspan 3 channel, old-timer that I use for training.  It was originally built and powered with an old Enya 40 with a 10x6 prop.  The thing is huge and actually thermals, somewhat … I call it my J 2-1/2 because it's not quite a J-3.  Anyway I hope that I've been of some help. Smile
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Post  akjgardner on Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:30 pm

Nice Haul Ron. I've got a Saito 80 on a 72' wingspan Cub, It fly's it really nice . Is the Norvel a RC or CL ?
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Post  NEW222 on Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:52 pm

Nice haul. Especially that Golden Knight. I have never personally seen one with my own eyes in person before, but always liked the looks of them.
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Post  Cribbs74 on Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:47 pm

Thanks everyone I appreciate all the info!

To answer the question the Norvel is CL.

Do you think the Saito would fly this?

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Post  akjgardner on Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:56 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:Thanks everyone I appreciate all the info!

To answer the question the Norvel is CL.

Do you think the Saito would fly this?

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It would bee perfect for that airplane
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Post  Ken Cook on Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:41 pm

Ron, if your intention is control line you should seek the advice of Bob Reeves. Bob can easily be contacted in the 4 stroke section of Stunthanger. Bob has done a extensive amount of control line use Saito's. I met him at Brodak's some years back and one plane I can recall which was just outright cool was Henry Werner's Hughes XF-11. I believe Bob helped Henry setup the twin four strokes. He could offer sound advice to venturi size and requirements.
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Post  davidll1984 on Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:57 pm

norvel .061 glow plug fit on cox .049 .061 has mutch power nice one
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Post  Oldenginerod on Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:53 am

Ken Cook wrote:              Ron, if your intention is control line you should seek the advice of Bob Reeves. Bob can easily be contacted in the 4 stroke section of Stunthanger. Bob has done a extensive amount of control line use Saito's. I met him at Brodak's some years back and one plane I can recall which was just outright cool was Henry Werner's Hughes XF-11. I believe Bob helped Henry setup the twin four strokes. He could offer sound advice to venturi size and requirements.

Speaking of Henry and Saitos, he sent me these pictures a while back of his 7' span P-38 powered by twin Saito .40s.
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Post  ian1954 on Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:58 am

akjgardner wrote:
Cribbs74 wrote:Thanks everyone I appreciate all the info!

To answer the question the Norvel is CL.

Do you think the Saito would fly this?

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It would bee perfect for that airplane

That plane is ideal for the Saito 4 stroke.  A few scale flyers I know prefer four strokes and have several good reasons.

Tick over for  RC can be set much lower than two stroke. Although the engine is heavier than a two stroke equivalent, the silencers are usually much smaller and lighter.

They “sound’” quieter than two strokes having a different engine note.

They are ideal for upside down mounting. If you flood it - a few reverse turns on the prop and the excess fuel will drain from the exhaust valve.

A big downside is that they can throw props on backfiring. Some have locknuts fitted but I have seen a few with pegged drive plates to keep the prop secure.

Here is Windy with a Saito 90 - skip through his waffle to the flying field.

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Post  Ken Cook on Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:32 am

Ian, that video brought back some great memories. The video started with Bob Zambelli, tuning the Red Baron at Palisades Park Swim Club parking lot. I enjoyed flying there. The later portion of the video is Garden State Circle Burners field, we've lost both flying sites never to return. Reuben Macbride was the fellow holding the plane as Bob was adjust the Z-tron throttle control. Reuben and his son moved west some years back and I haven't seen or heard from them. Another person in the video was Rich Giacobone. Rich flies control line clockwise and always has. What really grabbed my attention was Dan Banjock and his Stilletto at 54 min mark. Dan is my flying partner. The Stilletto is powered by a Enya 4 stroke and is one heck of a beast of an engine. The plane is still around and I fly it every now and then. Everything about it is worn out minus the engine. Dan's Farman biplane is also shown in this video. That plane was true are work as Bob and Dan configured a LA .46 in a pusher configuration. The LA was inverted in the nose of the bipe and it used a shaft with small rag joints to a axle shaft supported on bearings. The tank was custom built with a tunnel in it for the shaft. This was due to pusher issues when one points the nose up, a pusher with a forward mounted tank richens when pointed nose high. This solved that problem. The plane was totalled at our home field about 2 years after this video.


            I found this old picture of Dan with his Farman at Palisades Park New freebies! Danny_10 The P-51 on the ground was owned and built by Neal Beakman NYC firefighter. Neal would purchase the wing only from Nobler ARF's and build his planes around it.
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