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LOL Way ahead of you brother in arms.

Post  happydad on Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:03 am

RNajarian wrote:I appreciate the help Happydad. . .

Here is the link to a pretty good discussion on Cox Electro Chargers (bought off eBay.) There is some pretty good info there.

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t5421-cox-electric-control-line-aeroplanes

Read it all before dinner. Interesting. Some good points, some 7 year old points.
   Before you buy, look at 2020 prices and availability. NiCd’s are still best for some applications. And I like your idea of replaceable batteries, BUT remember if the electric motor gets hot, usually efficiency goes down. You could add some cool cooling fins from car or boat motors and paint them SILVER like the engine cam covers.

p.s. my friend up in Santa Maria, near my alma mater , CP SLO, had the Bearcat with the voltage going thru the control line’s mentioned above. I think it still works, but he is waiting for prices to be right to sell???  Huh...

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Post  RNajarian on Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:52 am

I’ve received my Wings Corsair. New in box as advertised. I’m currently collecting the necessary electronics for the R/C build.

While on EBay I picked up an old ElectroCharger Spitfire from my youth. Restoring it should be no trouble, there are threads here on the Cox Engine Forum detailing how to do it.

One problem is the landing carriage is broken in three pieces. All the pieces are there and can be glued back together but it wouldn’t have the necessary strength.

Luckily for me, my nephew competed AND WON a Disney Competition where the prize was an expensive 3D printer, scanner and computer. If anyone is interested the show was called “Shop Class” and can be found on Disney Plus.

Once the Spitfire arrives I’ll have my nephew scan and try to reproduce the original style landing gear. Probably have more fun reproducing the landing gear than actually flying the plane. Smile

Cox planes on Ebay - Page 3 C4578510
Cox planes on Ebay - Page 3 52f62410
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LOL Re: Cox planes on Ebay

Post  RNajarian on Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:35 pm

Got the ElectroCharger Spitfire today. The fuselage separated without issue revealing pretty what would be expected after 40 years.

The motor disassembled easily and ran Ok with a load of 4 volts. The airflow was pretty anemic. I may upgrade the motor. Cox planes on Ebay - Page 3 013ebf10
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LOL See me first!

Post  happydad on Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:21 pm

RNajarian wrote:Got the ElectroCharger Spitfire today. The fuselage separated without issue revealing pretty what would be expected after 40 years.

The motor disassembled easily and ran Ok with a load of 4 volts. The airflow was pretty anemic. I may upgrade the motor. Cox planes on Ebay - Page 3 013ebf10

See me first, just tell what size. Small, medium or large. I can send pics thru PM if you want. Don’t want to offend anyone with Cox Electric stuff. LOL🤪

P.S. looks great!
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:34 am

RNajarian wrote:The fuselage separated without issue revealing pretty what would be expected after 40 years. The motor disassembled easily and ran Ok with a load of 4 volts. The airflow was pretty anemic. I may upgrade the motor.

The Japanese Mabuchi electric low voltage motor was fairly common 40 years ago and then was about as powerful as you could get in that small size then. They were also used in slot cars (my brother had them in his slot cars of the mid 1960's) and trains (my AMF mining locomotive had one). They were cheap, sold by surplus electronic suppliers (Radio Shack and other mail order) and some model aircraft suppliers (Sig, Ace, AHC, etc.) for a number of years after. It was the technology of the time.
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LOL How small

Post  happydad on Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:16 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:
RNajarian wrote:The fuselage separated without issue revealing pretty what would be expected after 40 years. The motor disassembled easily and ran Ok with a load of 4 volts. The airflow was pretty anemic. I may upgrade the motor.

The Japanese Mabuchi electric low voltage motor was fairly common 40 years ago and then was about as powerful as you could get in that small size then. They were also used in slot cars (my brother had them in his slot cars of the mid 1960's) and trains (my AMF mining locomotive had one). They were cheap, sold by surplus electronic suppliers (Radio Shack and other mail order) and some model aircraft suppliers (Sig, Ace, AHC, etc.) for a number of years after. It was the technology of the time.


How small were they? In the pic it looks like a 380 size motor, round, about 1 1/2inches long and 1inch in diameter.
   The slot car motors were about 3/4inch on widest side, but 1/2inch on the flat side and maybe 1inch long. Definitely has 2 flat sides.

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Post  GallopingGhostler on Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:52 pm

happydad wrote:How small were they? In the pic it looks like a 380 size motor, round, about 1 1/2inches long and 1inch in diameter. The slot car motors were about 3/4inch on widest side, but 1/2inch on the flat side and maybe 1inch long. Definitely has 2 flat sides.

The one you are thinking of is the classic blue motor made by the Mabuchi company in Japan. They made them in the thousands, but they made more than one motor. I really don't know all the history, more of a passing observation. Then too, others made similar motors, probably baton passed to Korea, Taiwan, then mainland Chinese.

I used to remember these electric motors being advertised in nearly all electronic surplus warehouses back then, also in some model hobby shops and warehouse sale fliers. These were standard bronze or copper brushed motors with magnetized field surround winding armature.

Cox (and later Estes) got involved I gather in providing electric free flight or simple RC with the lowest bottom cost possible, hence why the weak marginal electric motors for powered flight. I bought one for my son some 20 years ago, of all things the flight pack used a pack of 4 or 5 hearing aid batteries. Typical Estes, probably thought people paying a couple bucks per model rocket launch would be willing to spend the same for toy RC flight.

Thus, similar to the disposable nature of Cox RTF fuel powered CL aircraft (one crash by the beginner starting with a half lap wing-over into a Figure-9 encountering the ground usually netted a crash scene suitable for an NTSB investigation. Probably discouraged more kids than encouraged them into CL flight because of the ensuing failure mode.)

I think it good that RNajarian is working to improve this aircraft and make it successful. Many of them probably landed in landfills after a couple weeks of flight attempts. It is always nice to hear of success stories and see photos and videos of victory.
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LOL Warning

Post  happydad on Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:32 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:
happydad wrote:How small were they? In the pic it looks like a 380 size motor, round, about 1 1/2inches long and 1inch in diameter. The slot car motors were about 3/4inch on widest side, but 1/2inch on the flat side and maybe 1inch long. Definitely has 2 flat sides.

The one you are thinking of is the classic blue motor made by the Mabuchi company in Japan. They made them in the thousands, but they made more than one motor. I really don't know all the history, more of a passing observation. Then too, others made similar motors, probably baton passed to Korea, Taiwan, then mainland Chinese.

I used to remember these electric motors being advertised in nearly all electronic surplus warehouses back then, also in some model hobby shops and warehouse sale fliers. These were standard bronze or copper brushed motors with magnetized field surround winding armature.

Cox (and later Estes) got involved I gather in providing electric free flight or simple RC with the lowest bottom cost possible, hence why the weak marginal electric motors for powered flight. I bought one for my son some 20 years ago, of all things the flight pack used a pack of 4 or 5 hearing aid batteries. Typical Estes, probably thought people paying a couple bucks per model rocket launch would be willing to spend the same for toy RC flight.

Thus, similar to the disposable nature of Cox RTF fuel powered CL aircraft (one crash by the beginner starting with a half lap wing-over into a Figure-9 encountering the ground usually netted a crash scene suitable for an NTSB investigation. Probably discouraged more kids than encouraged them into CL flight because of the ensuing failure mode.)

I think it good that RNajarian is working to improve this aircraft and make it successful. Many of them probably landed in landfills after a couple weeks of flight attempts. It is always nice to hear of success stories and see photos and videos of victory.

As a warning to anyone thinking of putting a brushless motor in a 40 year old foam model airplane. Google first, then make your decision.

   When I started to modify my first Cox Corsair about 7 years ago, whenever, I searched google to see what others had done already.

1. The foam material then, 2013, was not strong enough to hold the brushless motor within the fuselage. Several, not all, of the guys lost their brushless motors to the beyond when they pushed the Corsair to it’s limits and “punched it” pushing the throttle stick to the max. The y said the motor came flying out of the fuselage like a rocket and they never say it again.

   Some of the newer, todays foam, may be able to contain a brushless motor, but at what cost. At the time I was building, still am, the goal for AUW, final weight, was under 5ounces. Hard to do with some of the brushless motors, but still doable with carefull weight distribution and wing loading calculations. If you overload the wings it will only fly with the motor going. Motor off and it won’t glide well.

I think the same rules apply to the Corsair as to the Spitfire. More to the Spitfire because it is made from heavier plastic and has a heavier motor and heavy batteries. Two Cents

And yes, gallopingghostler  I am familiar with different sizes of Mabuchi motors, from the 130 used in the lil Cucaracha to the 26d used in Cucaracha to the bigger one I can’t remember the # of to the 380 size used in several model planes sold by hobby lobby, tower hobby, and even Cox during a tough transition they went thru. Notice I left out the E word.  I think Mabuchi more recently made the tiny motor with imbalanced weight used in older phones for making the buzz  known as Vibration alert. Now made by digital sounds.

Enjoy and keep on fixing, rebuilding and reusing Cox engines.  Happydad Old Bugger
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:09 pm

Actually I'm thinking most if not all here are very astute builders, familiar with power and motor selection. That means appropriate airframe modifications and power selection to suit. Some of us like to do crazy stuff.

Hijacked (I remember us 12 YO boys collecting all the unspent firecrackers day after 4th of July. Unrolled them, poured the silvery powder into a spent Texas Twister carcass. Twisted partly spent fuses together until we had about 4 inches worth. Lit it, we all stepped away, had an explosion louder than an M-80. Parents from the nearby houses came out and asked if we were OK.

We used to buy the sausage balloon packs, blow them up part way, tie them to the forks (front) and hard tail frame (back). Have anywhere from 2 to 4 on the bike. With spokes semi-spaced irregular to alternating left and right sides of axle spindle, they'd make the WHUMP - KA - WHUMP - KA - WHUMP sound similar to a Harley Davidson at idle when rubbing the spokes. (Had a hollow ring to them instead of the clacking of playing cards.) With about 8 of us kids riding down the street that way, some lady stopped us and told us she was going to call the police on us for making such a racket on the residential street in front of her house. This was Biloxi Mississippi circa 1965.

Now you know why I have a love for motorcycles.) Back To Topic

It would have to be one of them micro brushless motors to work. (Right sized. There was some discussion of using CD-Rom motors some time back, but think that was for even lighter low powered stuff.)

Regarding all the excess Mabuchi motors tells me these were most likely excesses from failed business ventures, similar to the venerable A.C. Gilbert .074 and .11 Thunderheads of 1963.

The dreaded "E" word in a glow and diesel engine forum? Laughing Old Bugger Tired w/ Coffee Read Computer Issues Wink Eyebrows

Anyway, just talk, and I'm sure we'd all respond different if we were discussing this with a cold drink in one hand under a shady spot somewhere. Beer Cheers drunken sunny lol!
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Post  Ken Cook on Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:02 pm

Seeing the Electro Charger brings back fond memories. My dad bought one for me and I flew the heck out of it. It was a neat plane. It didn't offer the same power as glow but it worked and it did what it was supposed to do. When I didn't have money for batteries or glow fuel, it worked great. My dad had a rather large flashlight which used two Ray O Vac lantern batteries. Thinking back on that monstrosity compared to today makes me laugh. I would take the batteries out of the lamp to use for the plane. Of course when my dad needed the lamp it was dead and I would get my rear end chewed off. But I remember positioning the bellcrank, sitting the plane on the springs of the lantern battery and going out to the handle. I would fly on a small paved lot across the street from my house and it was really enjoyable. I can't fully remember the type of plane. I remember it being green, white and black somewhat like a Piper . I hope you get this working it would be great to see a video of it as it would truly bring back pleasant memories. Ken
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