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Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

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Happy Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  carlrog on Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:25 am

Hello all,

I've just acquired what I think may be the coolest thing I've ever owned... a Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane. I intend to restore the plane for a YouTube video, and would love to get it flying at least once more before retiring her for good. My YT channel is carlrogers for anyone keen to see what I post.

Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration 3fbc5910
Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration Img_2510

I've not touched anything yet as I wanted to get some advice before commencing. Luckily there was an original manual that I was able to pull some details from:

McCoy .049 Glowmotor
Keil Kraft Nitrex 15 Glowplug Fuel
1 1/2 Volt Heavy Duty Battery (Ever Ready AD4)

The previous owners clearly painted over the original silver plastic which I plan on taking it back to. Using some very mild paint remover, I've heard that standard Dettol works very well.

The engine seems to be seized however I've not forced it so it may move. The plan was to submerge in brake cleaner for a few hours to see if that will loosen it. Then use a flame torch/heat gun if that doesnt work. Does anyone recommend a different strategy?

As for the fuel, is there a modern version that's available to purchase?
I would love to reuse the original battery cardboard box, wrapping up a new battery. Would anyone have any suggestions for a replacement?

Thanks for any and all advice!
Carl
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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  Marleysky on Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:47 am

GREETINGS!
WELCOME TO THE FORUM
I’m sure glad you found us! First off: Nice Find! Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane, you must be in the UK?  They are definitely rare here in the US.
Removing the paint is going to be difficult without removing the ‘Silver’ chrome coating. I am not sure what Dettol is. I have used automotive brake fluid to remove paint off of Cox race cars, without damaging the original plastic. If you are not going for a 100% concours restoration you could use a “rattle can” spray paint to get a silver finish, after removal of the old paint and factory chrome.
The McCoy engine should be able to be restored by unsticking the old castor. I have used something a simple as a heatgun (wife’s hairdryer ) holding the engine in leather gloved hands. Other methods are the “auto anti freeze in a crockpot soak” to soften the old castor and loosen up the insides of the engine and starter spring, if so equipped.
As far as fuel goes, yes there is availability of proper blends on EBay or some suppliers are “out of stock”  So You can also use heli or car fuel with the addition of castor oil to keep the little bugger running. Smoking

Battery box replicas are available in the Instructions section thanks to our member Levent. But you might have the MCCoy battery pack rather than the Cox?
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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  944_Jim on Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:46 am

Hi Carl,

Welcome to CEF! We are glad to have a newcomer. Congratulations on a neat find.
Please tell us more about yourself so we can guide you best based on your experiences with other hobbies.

Keep coming back to CEF regularly. You will find topics sometimes drift from their original intent as if we are slightly ADD, but it adds to the entertainment value of those threads!

Are you looking to get into Control Line flying?
Have you flown control line before?  Do you have a buddy that will.help launch the model? Or are you doing this solo?

If so, I recommend a mild (well, drastic) change of course for you:

I strongly suggest a different model if you want to try the hobby. Do you have any transferable skills from other hobbies? Scratch-building a trainer isn't particularly difficult, and will yield a plane that can be repaired readily.

Build your first one, and don't become attached to it. Build two if you want to display your first build, and fly the second one.

Plans for scratchbuilt models are easily found. I also know of several cottage-industry vendors selling great starter kits, from simple basic flat plate to more intricate built-up wings/fuselage.

Back to your topic...

Continue in your quest to restore the model to your satisfaction. Keep in mind all plastic parts will be delicate, if not quite brittle. Or they will be soft/flexible to the point of warping and taking a warped set. Any solvent you use on the paint may damage the silver coating underneath. I would use engine fuel or alcohol to see if the paint lifts off, and then move up to more vigorous methods. Hot, soapy water will clean all of the plastics without damage. If you are lucky, the "add-on" paint may just flake off!

Your specified fuel appears to be a low/medium nitro content fuel. Find the latest thread regarding FitzFuels and get some 1/2A 15% nitro fuel. I believe Fitz will blend to your needs. There are other fual vendors that supply 1/2A fuel blended to suit your engine. Some.of us here buy whatever is available, and then doctor it to our desires.

That engine was from a period that castor oil was king of the lube for these little guys. I know a couple of my childhood friends ran Testors engines while I ran Cox engines. We often ran out engines on the same fuel. If I ran out of Cox fuel, I used their Testors fuel (and vice-versa).

Your battery is the basic BIG 1.5v battery. You can hook a couple of D-cells in parallel and wire them to your glowplug ignitor. I actually made a cheap plywood box to hold four D-cells and used about 20" of lamp cord for that. Wire up alligator clips if you don't want to cut your clip off the battery (I can't see how the wires connect to your old battery).

You can check the glowplug with only one D-cell just to see if it is good.

Take care disassembling the engine! Did the model come with engine wrenches?

The stuck engine should NOT go into your chosen solvent. Brake cleaner can cause damage to any plastic on that engine. But you will need to remove it from the model for service work. Begin by disassembling the engine as much as you can. Try to find a parts breakdown for that engine specifically. I would soak it in alcohol to try to flush the dried castor out of it.

Once dried, hit it with PB Blaster or WD-40 and a hair dryer to soften up the congealed castor in the threads of everything, the piston/cylinder,.and the crank/block nearing surfaces. Heat will be your friend...gentle heat over a period of time (more than two minutes) will be your friend. As it.loosens up, continue to slowly work it back to moving. Any tools should be small. If you hit this guy with anything over 6"-8" long, you risk damage to the crank pin or conrod.


From gentlest to more extreme cleaning methods:
Medicinal alcohol
Methanol (or fuel-NOT gasoline)
Gun cleaner
Hot soak in Pine-Sol or Fantastic 409
Hot soak in automotive antifreeze (search here for that one-remarkable!)

Others will be along with their favorite methods.


Last edited by 944_Jim on Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Happy Topic drift

Post  944_Jim on Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:49 am

Marley, you beat me while I over-typed my answer!
How is it we have two different fonts?
How is it my two replies have different fonts?
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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  Marleysky on Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:35 pm

Oh! Your pictures hadn’t shown up when I first replied. Wow! That’s a good looking model.  Maybe with a little light scrubbing with mild soap and water will remove the green paint off the original silver, taking care not to get the roundells or decals wet.
Your battery pack looks to be a unique set-up also. I never have seen one with the two hole insert for the wire connections. Yeah, that would be worth restoration for sure!
Looking inside the box it looks like the canopy for the plane? You’re a lucky dog if it is!


Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration B4028610
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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:43 am

Is the green actually paint or is it the colour of the plastic, with the silver wearing off?
I know the silver Testors Mustang seemed to start loosing its silver as soon as it got hit with fuel for the first time.
Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration Testor13
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Happy Further Info

Post  carlrog on Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:46 am

Thank you all for responding to the post - I somehow didn't see any notifications so it was a big surprise when I checked today!
I've cleared my pipeline for the next week so will be attempting the breakdown imminently.
I will get some better close up photos to post and hope to answer some of the questions you've asked already tomorrow morning.
Until then thanks again, you've already given some excellent advice!
Best,
Carl
Smile
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Happy Buying fuel and batteries

Post  carlrog on Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:00 am

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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  944_Jim on Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:43 pm

At lunch. Will review after work...about 4 hours.
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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  Oldenginerod on Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:28 pm

Any 1.5 volt battery with adequate current will do the job. A pair of "D" batteries like you show are about right, but remember to have them connected in parallel and not in series, so as to remain at 1.5 volt.

The fuel you showed is not suitable. It only has 11% total oil. You need at least 20% with much more than 2% castor oil. You could add castor oil to bring the % up but you would then be reducing the nitro content, which is already about as low as you can go on an .049. 25% nitro is pretty much seen as the standard mix, particularly if you want to be able to get that heavy Hurricane off the ground. You can go as high as 35% nitro, but your problem here is oil content. I see that none of the fuels on that site show adequate oil for your engine.
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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  944_Jim on Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:17 pm

Get a liter of the their 25%N 10% oil.

Add your castor to that fuel. You will lose a bit of the nitro, but you'll save the engine.
Example: 28.5 ounces of 25% fuel (as above) plus 3.5 ounces of castor oil will yield roughly 22% nitro with 20% oil (11% or more is castor). That oil percentage is based in the original 10% oil being synthetic. Basically your oil is no more synthetic than almost 10%, with no less than 11% castor...or 50/50 oil. If the original oil is already 1/2 and 1/2, then your oil slides down to about 7.5% synthetic and up to 12.5% castor.

Don't want to mix in quarts? Neither do I. Do ccs instead of ounces...same unit counts, same percentage counts.

I'd run any 1/2A on that blend...and I'd double-check my numbers on Andy Batt's fuel/oil mixture sheet.
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Happy Update (photos)

Post  carlrog on Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:51 am

I managed to find this fuel, please let me know if you think it will work (I called the shop and they confirmed it has 25% nitro, 20% Castor):
http://www.modelshopleeds.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=291_1011_805&products_id=30887

So far the dismantling has gone quite well. The only damage incurred was the fuel hose and nozzle for the tank which broke off. I noticed the 4 broken tanks that came in the box also had this broken off - must be a common occurence. Sorry for a stupid question, but why are there 2 nozzles on the tank? and would I be able to use the non-broken nozzle as the new fuel line?

First plan is to clean with washing up liquid and sponge/toothbrush. Then maybe move on to Dettol if I'm not happy with what's left of the paint

In terms of repainting if I need to take it back to the plastic, is there a brand or type of silver spray paint that you think would work particularly well? It's clear that the original was very shiny so would be great to replicate that somehow!

Thanks for all the help so far Smile

Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration Sequen11
Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration Sequen10
Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration Sequen12

More photos here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nPCg4ibG1985bgPIol3gspGlzpgI_5HI?usp=sharing


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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  Oldenginerod on Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:32 am

I can't say for sure but if the fuel is indeed 25% nitro & 20% castor oil then that's just what you need. As for the fuel tank, there should be an outlet on the bottom right corner where the fuel line goes. Is this the one that's broken off? If it's one of the two on the top, it shouldn't matter. One is for filling and the other is for venting while filling. I doubt that these extend into the tank at all, so it doesn't matter which one you fill through.
I'm no expert, but I have heard anecdotal evidence that silver paint is one of the least fuel-proof colours of paint you can use. To give yourself half a chance, I'd be trying a spray can of automotive acrylic lacquer. (At least that's what we know it as here).

Rod.
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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  944_Jim on Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:11 am

Duraglow 25:
http://www.modeltechnics.com/glowfuel/duraglo.html

Note that this is on the light side of oil. But I would run the first run on it, and maybe (doubtfully-I'm lazy) splash a bit of castor in it on later runs. Or, even better...retire this airframe, build a quick trainer and use up the rest of the fuel on a different plane.

The whole line up can be seen here:
http://www.modeltechnics.com/glowfuel.htm

Drill down each one to see the spec sheet for each respective blend.
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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  944_Jim on Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:57 pm

Actually, I re-read the fuels page. Near the bottom, GN-25 has 25% nitro, and 20% castor...just like OP mentioned.

I still don't see much difference between the GN-25 and the GX-25.

OP, order it. It is as close to Cox fuel as you can get over there.

I would still be inclined to get the 25% N and the synthetic oil, and add castor to equal 20% total oil (at roughly 50/50 synth-to-castor). That way, the engine (and model) will stay a bit cleaner. And the fuel would be fine for any other engine.
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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  rsv1cox on Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:15 pm

Disassemble completely and soak the parts in Simple Green concentrate for several hours to remove the present finish.  Or spray the concentrate on the model every couple of hours keeping it wet.   Rinse with warm water using a sponge or micro fiber towel.  Re do tough spots with a tooth brush.

You can send it off to have it rechromed, but it's not cheap.  There are several "rattle can" paints that will give an acceptable finish.  "Chrome" comes to mind but I use Krylon Brilliant Aluminum, but it's not fuel proof.  

One "nozzle" is for filling the tank, the other vents.  You can use either one to fill it.  You can carefully cut a piece of brass tubing to fit as a replacement.  

Good luck with your restoration.
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Happy DISASTER STRIKES

Post  carlrog on Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:30 am

Hello all,

After peeling away all the years of grime and muck off the plastic, I thoroughly enjoyed repainting with some chrome finish rattle paint.

Next job was taking apart the engine and fuel tank. Few problems however the bolts and nuts were slow to undo as thy were also coated in years of god knows what.

Once the fuel tank was off.... disaster... the engine casing is cracked... i'm assuming that this means the end of my current journey with the restoration as I'm sure there's no way to save this. Hoping one of you disagrees with me here Smile

Anyway that serves me right for cracking on without looking at the engine first.

Do you have any recommendations on how to proceed, could I replace with another suitable engine that you know would work? If so please do suggest some options!

Thanks as always

Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration Img_2611
Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration Sequen16
Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration Sequen15
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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  Oldenginerod on Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:27 am

I'm assuming that it's a Keil Kraft engine rather than a Wen Mac/McCoy/Testors, which is simply the same engine made under license in the UK. It should be pretty easy to pick up a suitable replacement engine, or even a useable crankcase. Wen Mac MkX, MkXII or MkXIII- any of them which use a glow head rather than a plug. Even the earlier series engines will still fit.
Check this out. https://www.coxengineforum.com/t7371-wen-mac-mkii-049

The Testors/McCoy engines are probably going to be easier to locate. I have a heap of spare Wen Mac cases. Not sure if I have one like you need, but I'll have a look.
Rod.
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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  Oldenginerod on Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:30 am

Here you go.  The McCoy in the middle will work for you.  Cylinder can interchange with the plastic case Testors on the right.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TESTORS-McCOY-WEN-MAC-049-PARTS-ENGINES/274418441180?hash=item3fe49d1bdc:g:538AAOSwiQRfARpV
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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  fredvon4 on Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:38 am

just clean and install the broke engine for your display...too old too brittle and your rattle can silver is not fuel proof....this should not be flown..IMO
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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  carlrog on Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:43 am

Thats the plan, but as I'm making a video of the restoration, there needs to be a final flight before she's retired.

Thanks for the suggestions re the replacement engine. I've managed to find a chap on eBay who had one in his collection that he was willing to sell to me!

There is hope yet Smile
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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  944_Jim on Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:02 am

Juat be sure to apply a fuel.proofer over the silver. You will want to test your fuel proofer on a sample before commiting to the same on the plane.

I did discover that fuel proofer is available in Europe, but haven't looked into what it actually is. You may be able to apply a thin coat of poly-urethane...others may come along and describe the least yellowing one available.
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Happy Hurricane

Post  Darrenkkkk on Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:23 am

Hi I’ve joined this site as it’s nice to see a kk hurricane being restored
I have one ready to fly and restoring another
The weak spot on these models is early mount with exhaust Stubbs and tank in one part

Does anyone have a suggestion on adhesive that will refuse the plastic
The fuel feed issue was sorted by placing a heated piece of brass tube in to outlet when cooled binding with gorilla glue
I might have a spare motor for your silver hurricane
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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  Darrenkkkk on Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:25 am

By the way GN25 works well with cox motors here in Uk
The only down side is needing to buy 5 litres .
I’ve found the extra castor helps up compression ..same trick as on tired Diesel engines
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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

Post  Darrenkkkk on Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:11 pm

Hi
The weak plastic mounts fail.
Here’s my homemade replacement using original tank and plywood
It’s much stronger but must be totally fuel proofed before fitting
Another broken hurricane to fly again
Here’s Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration 9f4e9b10
Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration 47e05a10
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Happy Re: Keil Kraft Silver Hurricane Restoration

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