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Post  Iceberg Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:51 am

Curious
I have not ever used longer than 60 feet (30 foot diameter) line on a control plane. It is working good. Does anyone ever have experience using longer lines and if so how long? I almost always have my wife hand launch my planes so not taking off from pavement.

The hand launch take off speed is important but if the CL was say 45 feet diameter would that still work well? I'm just too chicken to try and have an unfortunate........ meeting with the ground Sad Work too hard on my planes to have them damaged unnecessarily.

Thanks
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Post  Ken Cook Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:16 am

This is all dependent upon the plane. Cox engines are not as powerful as modern equivalents such as Norvel equipment. Hand launching with longer length lines could result in a unwanted crash. I have to ask why you want to do this? Essentially, there's two reasons for going out longer, one being to slow the speed down and two is to allow more room for maneuvering. If your engine doesn't have any reserve of power left flying on the line length your currently using then your expecting too much from your model.

                     When I was using Tee Dee's for combat, they were starting to become handicapped on 42' lines. TD's originally flew AMA combat on 35' lines, they changed the rules when modern powerplants were introduced to go out to 42' to slow things down. This essentially put a end to using Cox equipment. Not only is it hard to start when hot, they flew poorly on this line length.

                In addition, the line material is also a factor. Steels vs braided Spectra, Dacron, etc. Drag is everything, therefore the style and weight of the plane dictates the length. My flying field is 16' above sea level. I'm making top power compared to those in higher elevations. Some planes need to fly fast and going out on longer lines defeats this. I was flying a twin Mustang  using Black Widows on .008" 52' steel lines ( A major pain in the you know what to take care of). I now have another twin I'm flying on 42' Spectra lines. A Norvel .061 for instance by itself can certainly muster up enough oomph to fly out to 50' on some models. If I was in need of going out longer flying integral tanked Bees, I wouldn't be pushing the envelope too far. I had many line sets that were made up to 37'-9". I don't recall my reasoning for this but I have about a dozen line sets made to this length. Your obviously going to reach a point where drag and power become a issue and this is usually around the 42' mark using Bees.
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Post  roddie Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:42 pm

Hey Ice, Good points from Ken. Think about this; The 1st CEF C/L 1/2A Proto Reed Speed contest (2014) mandated a 42 foot line-set be used. That's an 84 foot diameter flight-circle. This length was later reduced to 35 feet in successive contests a few years later.. because contestants were having difficulty launching their airplanes. Models were required to have landing-gear and to rise-off-ground (R.O.G.) launch. The smaller diameter circle allowed the models to gain more line-tension sooner. This enabled more controlled taxiing.. until enough speed was gained to achieve "lift-off". It was a fly as fast and level as you can.. for X amount of laps contest. A qualifying run was submitted via video-recording the flight. Fun stuff!

You can, of course try whatever you want. We establish our own standards in this way. Smile

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Post  NEW222 Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:49 pm

While I have not tried it, I just want to bring this up. The Goldberg Lil Wizard was advertised to use 52' lines with a Cox Bee type engine. I have one with a different .049 and I believe I had tried 42', but it did not like it, so I could not imagine using longer lines. With that said, maybe it is possible for flight if built as light as possible.
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Post  Iceberg Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:21 pm

Hi Ken & Roddie
I hear you guys. Thanks so much. I get great flights with the 30 foot radius No shortage of speed. I average about 55 MPH with some of my motors. There is not problem with maneuvers or anything really. Just was wondering if maybe the longer lines might be an idea.

I'll stick with my proven 30 foot radius lines. I get about 45 to 65 rounds per tank. I average the distance out at 206 foot per turn so 9270 feet to 13,390 feet per tank. I did the math I think in the neighborhood of 1250 M/P/G gallon. Although with no passengers or cargo I guess still an expensive and very dizzy trip! Laughing Laughing

Thanks again!!
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Post  roddie Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:08 pm

Hey Ice, More than happy to help a fellow modeller. Smile Trying different length lines (within a few feet) can be a good idea. A jump from 30 footers to 42 footers is too much of a jump.

I learned to fly my 1/2A C/L models on 25 foot lines.. because my yard at that time had just enough clearance for a 52 foot diameter circle. I'll tell you that a Cox PT19 Flight-Trainer fly's pretty good on 25 foot lines..! Laughing

It's great that your wife hand-launches for you. Now.. you need to teach her how to fuel, start and tune the engine. Laughing

Just kidding.. but have you looked into stooge-launching your models? A launching-stooge allows the pilot to release the model for flight from their control-position center-circle.

A model having a landing-gear can "taxi" upon release... until it gains enough speed to generate lift. A lightweight/well-balanced model will have a short roll-out.. and might be airborne in just a few feet. There are also stooges for models having no landing gear.. but the model needs to be "nimble" and the pilot skilled to achieve a successful launch.

Stooge-launching would open-up the opportunity for the wife to capture a video of the flight, along with the pre-flight activities if desired.
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Post  944_Jim Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:11 pm

Ground-launch stooge:
https://youtu.be/9hfwlV3a9UY
Camera: my Android Moto-G

Ground-launch stooge in action:
https://youtu.be/osxQfIvjS3E
Camera: my $50 Canon Point and Shoot on a tripod

No wives were hurt or abused during the video recording sessions. I did clip off the very beginning trying to dial in the needle.

Oh, how I miss that plane! This is on 38' lines.
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Post  Iceberg Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:14 am

Hey Roddie I like the idea of having my wife fuel and start the planes. However sadly when I mentioned that to her she said "don't push it". And then she said I was calling her a stooge. I said NO NO that is the name of the launching device. Naturally no wife was hurt or abused. Shocked Shocked Very Happy Laughing RC Plane
I will keep working on the fueling and starting though!! Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Post  roddie Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:41 pm

944_Jim wrote:Ground-launch stooge:
https://youtu.be/9hfwlV3a9UY
Camera: my Android Moto-G

Ground-launch stooge in action:
https://youtu.be/osxQfIvjS3E
Camera: my $50 Canon Point and Shoot on a tripod

No wives were hurt or abused during the video recording sessions. I did clip off the very beginning trying to dial in the needle.

Oh, how I miss that plane! This is on 38' lines.

way-cool vids Jim! Thumbs Up
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Post  Mike1484 Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:01 pm

Hi Jim ,

Nice video and a good set on the needle . Engine will last a long time on a good set . Thought that you were going to hit that pole on the right Smile . Thanks for sharing .

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Post  944_Jim Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:12 pm

Hi Mike,
I appreciate the encouragement! I hope someday soon  to contact DPCModels for a reproduction in order to revisit this plane (he digitized it when I first bought it....just in case).

The light poles are farther apart than you may think.  They are arranged in a square with about 140' per side. I sight the middle in between the diagonals, so that puts the distance from center to pole at about 90 feet (give or take...(70'x√2)). I did have to stay fairly close to center and remind myself that the Mossie flew on 50' lines, and had room for wandering quite a bit from center. Those poles looked a lot closer closer with that plane. This is the same facility:
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Post  roddie Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:03 pm

Nice! CoOoOol Cool vid! That Mossie was haulin' w/both engines on-song. Was it the outboard-engine that quit 1st at 00:1:13? No control issues and nice landing! I can only hope for as much with my P38.
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Post  944_Jim Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:02 pm

Roddie,
I believe outboard died first. While flights were short, when it flew it WAS quite exciting! Mike Londke and I talked about the build just before I started it, specifically because I saw HIS BHM Mossie video. You HAVE to find that one!
Those Norvels spent more time on a test jig than in the air. Alas, that plane met the final war with concrete last December, damaging one engine for sure. I miss that plane!
I thought I posted the carnage here.

A Frog Mosquito reproduction kit is in the build room waiting for bench time. That one will be 36" with a built-up wing, profile fuselage, and a pair or Cox Medallions (so I could do the build log here). I had the short kit cut from plans on Outerzone by Mark Winstanley in Canada several weeks back.
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