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cox 010 cylinder wanted

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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  robot797 Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:18 pm

it is the cylinder
it wont do nothing


and this one?
https://www.shogun.nl/liquid-blue.html

is this usable?
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  Levent Suberk Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:25 pm

This can work.

I found this info: "Bluing, being a chemical conversion coating, is not as robust against wear and corrosion resistance as plated coatings, and is typically no thicker than 2.5 micrometres (0.0001 inches). For this reason, it is considered not to add any appreciable thickness to precisely-machined gun parts."

So you need to blue several times. What is the piston clearance in bad cylinder?
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  Levent Suberk Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:28 pm

Can you check inside of two cylinders with a caliper? What is the difference?
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  robot797 Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:30 pm

bad one 6mm
good one 5.9mm
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  Levent Suberk Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:36 pm

Bad cylinder needs 0.05 mm. It is 100 micrometer total in diameter. Perhaps it works.

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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  robot797 Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:39 pm

well I just did a small test with the piston to prove it
in the good one It doesnt wanna go in past the exhasut ports (tries to bounce back)

the bad one slides to the top without any problem
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  Levent Suberk Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:40 pm

With glow plug?
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  robot797 Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:42 pm

jep
or else it wont have a seal to push against
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  Levent Suberk Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:45 pm

Try to smear grease to glow plug threads, then try. Same?
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  robot797 Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:53 pm

used a but tonn of vasaline
its the same
vasaline on the piston does make it better XD
and with a vasilinned piston it reacts the same as the good one
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  Levent Suberk Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:56 pm

I think that you want to try several coats of bluing inside of cylinder. I have no other idea to survive the bad cylinder, even I don't know bluing is a problem solver, because it needs many coats.

Perhaps other members have any idea to survive the bad cylinder.
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  robot797 Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:59 pm

what bluing fluid do you recomend that I can get in holland for not all to much money?
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  Levent Suberk Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:01 pm

robot797 wrote:it is the cylinder
it wont do nothing


and this one?
https://www.shogun.nl/liquid-blue.html

is this usable?

I used similar one for bluing.
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  robot797 Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:08 pm

okey
I will just order one and take the plunge

I do find it funny that is took 4 people 2 days to find out what I already knew (please dont take this as a attack or something)
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  balogh Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:21 pm

I am afraid blueing does not add thickness to the wall. It modifies the steel in a chemical process in a depth of few microns instead. The chemically modified layer is softer than the parent metal and will soon wear off, leaving an even wider gap between the cylinder and piston surfaces. So I would not rely on blueing for compression restoration. Just my 10 cents...

You may feel the piston moves a bit tighter after the cylinder interior is blued but I guess this is due to the lack of oil, or some modified micro structure of the cylinder. But again, blueing wears off quickly.


Last edited by balogh on Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:30 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  robot797 Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:22 pm

balogh wrote:I am afraid blueing does not add thickness to the wall. It modifies the steel in a chemical process in a depth of few microns instead. The chemically modified layer is softer than the parent metal and will soon wear off, leaving an even wider gap between the cylinder and piston surfaces. So I would not rely on blueing for compression restoration. Just my 10 cents...

well then what would you do?

also why do blueing fluids claim it makes a harder survice?
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  balogh Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:29 pm

The blueing fluid is acidic and creates a compound with Fe that is not to be mistaken with an alloy steel where inter-crystal atoms of the alloy metals are wedged among the crystals of steel and increase the yield strength of the parent metal.

Sorry but I am afraid a worn cylinder with a ringless piston is the end of the game. Only replacement can help.
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  robot797 Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:37 pm

I thought so
but seeing that it is broken as is
and one member here has good results
I will try it

also what would happen if I rere to send the cylinder to a company like this
https://www.millennium-tech.net/serviceInfo.php?id=1
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  balogh Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:44 pm

Plating and honing may help. Whether the tolerances of the technology described in the web page you posted are comparable to the stunning accuracy under which the 010 and other COX cylinders were made remains a question.

Automobile engine components are several order of magnitude larger than in COX engines, plus pistons have rings, and this does not call for the 1 millionth of an inch of tolerances that COX followed. It maybe worth a try though.
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  robot797 Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:45 pm

currently its dead
it cant get any worse

Smile
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  balogh Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:55 pm

These 010's are pretty pricey on ebay. But I bet most used ones sold on ebay are only mildly used given the rarity of matching plane sizes. So if you are lucky to find one which looks sad and misused and therefore sold relatively cheap, jump on it. It will more than likely come with decent compression unless stored in a pool of mud for decades.

I have used many COX engines including 010-s for very long hours and if not abused and taken care of, these rascals really can run several hundreds of hours! You may have read about COX' own longevity test run when a common stock product 049 engine did not give up even after 400 hours!
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  Cribbs74 Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:05 pm

robot797 wrote:okey
I will just order one and take the plunge

I do find it funny that is took 4 people 2 days to find out what I already knew (please dont take this as a attack or something)

The intent was to try to help you avoid the hassle of sourcing a new cylinder and save you money. It wasn’t intended to prove you right or wrong.

There are many on here that have been messing with these engines for a long time and as such there is a lot of combined knowledge.

I have acquired 1 new .010 piston/cylinder in the past 9yrs.... Perhaps you will have better luck.
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  robot797 Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:21 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:
robot797 wrote:okey
I will just order one and take the plunge

I do find it funny that is took 4 people 2 days to find out what I already knew (please dont take this as a attack or something)

The intent was to try to help you avoid the hassle of sourcing a new cylinder and save you money. It wasn’t intended to prove you right or wrong.

There are many on here that have been messing with these engines for a long time and as such there is a lot of combined knowledge.

I have acquired 1 new .010 piston/cylinder in the past 9yrs.... Perhaps you will have better luck.

I know
but seeing that I have been on this forum for a few years and am making butane powered cox engines
I think I know what a bad and what a good cylinder feels like

but back to the point I ment it as a joke
its the same as the storry about the gouverment that has to change a lightbulb
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  davidll1984 Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:16 pm

Then yes as say its cylinder piston is loose way To loose now du To its modification as y try To explain now y tink the only way To get that cylinder piston run try plate its piston then lap the piston in its cylinder y have try cylinder it work for compression exept plating inside the cylinder wit nikel react wit piston and over heat on hi rpm plate piston its Not for average craftman its bit complexe and y wil Not start try To explain its possible Find Good Joalier bijoutier jeweler can plate ring so wy Not piston plateMaybe cheaper than buying a new engine u wil have To lap after the plating job
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Wanted Re: cox 010 cylinder wanted

Post  fredvon4 Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:46 am

https://caswellplating.com/electroplating-anodizing.html

for a one time .010 cylinder piston this is not cost effective...but as a side hobby Anodizing and simple electro plating is not very difficult or hazardous at a very small scale for small 1 to 2 sq inch metal parts

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