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Post  layback209 Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:36 am

Woohoo! It's a ripper. Cranked up on the third flip too.
Thanks for all the help everyone. Cleaned, crank polished, new venturi oring and flipped the piston 180deg. Guess the PO had the piston in backwards. New hotter short reach glow plug installed, it helped smooth it out and needle better. It did run off the one it came with (video below) which had some significant character lol. It may have been the original one.


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Post  Oldenginerod Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:41 am

That crankshaft sure is nice and shiny, but you make me cringe watching you polish it in the spinning drill chuck with a shop rag. If that thing snagged, not only could you bend your crank, but it could rip a finger right off.

Generally, most old cruddy Enyas I have got over the years have just got a scrub up on the outside, and quick flush out and a run. The heat and fresh fuel while running cleans the insides up well enough IMHO. Although, I did have one particularly bad .09 once that did have pretty bad varnish build-up on the crank, causing it to bind, but it was thick enough to scratch with your fingernail. I'm not sure how necessary the high polish on the crank is, but regardless, it turned out really nice. Well done.
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Post  sosam117 Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:14 am

The cylinder is steel and the piston is cast iron. Steel will expand more than the cast iron.
The tightness of the piston/cylinder increases because it has been machined with a taper at the top.
As the cylinder heat up it will expand. If it was as loose as the bottom (when cold) that would be a bad thing.
The engine then would be considered worn out.

There was no need to get the crankshaft super shiny (polished).
Yes, the rust needed to be removed, and I use 800 wet/dry sand paper on it.

A certain amount of roughness is required to seal and lubricate the plain bearing and crankshaft.
The term for having a certain amount of surface roughness (not rusty)  for lubrication is call bearing ratio.
A very small amount of oil will find the valley in the crank and bearing sleeve to lubricate the moving parts.
If you reduce those valleys too much, you could get scoring of the mating parts.

Now "if" the crankshaft was running in ball bearings then the bearings are doing the work and the crank can be shiny.

Nice job on getting it running again!


Last edited by sosam117 on Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  getback Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:14 am

congratulations on the cleaning and running of the new to you engine Very Happy She sounds good !
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Post  Ken Cook Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:28 am

Usually what you find with most Enya engines is that they're still not broken in. Flying it will quickly reveal that. I've come across a few that the previous owner was ready to toss them. I've found them at swap meet tables for nearly nothing. The problem is that the older versions take about 3 hours of running them before they really become a joy to use. While that doesn't sound like a lot of time, it is.
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Post  sosam117 Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:26 am

@Ken Cook wrote:                Usually what you find with most Enya engines is that they're still not broken in. Flying it will quickly reveal that. I've come across a few that the previous owner was ready to toss them. I've found them at swap meet tables for nearly nothing. The problem is that the older versions take about 3 hours of running them before they really become a joy to use. While that doesn't sound like a lot of time, it is.

Sometimes with their diesels it sometimes takes years before they are fully broken in.
I have an Enya 15 diesel that is still pretty tight and I have had/run it since 1991.
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Post  layback209 Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:54 am

@Oldenginerod wrote:That crankshaft sure is nice and shiny, but you make me cringe watching you polish it in the spinning drill chuck with a shop rag.  If that thing snagged, not only could you bend your crank, but it could rip a finger right off.

Haha you read my mind I was a littled spooked trying it this way for sure, I was worried the crank pin would catch or something.... I usually use the press to polish rc car hinge pins and shock shafts for that added racing edge. Probably will stick to the hand drill for next time.

I typically try to run them before taking them apart too but this one was especially rough, I thought it was full of sand based on appearances.



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Post  layback209 Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:02 am

@sosam117 wrote:
A certain amount of roughness is required to seal and lubricate the plain bearing and crankshaft.
The term for having a certain amount of surface roughness (not rusty)  for lubrication is call bearing ratio.
in!

That's really interesting thanks for sharing that.  I think I might of been thinking about it backwards , makes sense.  I dont typically polish rollar bearing motors because I'm worried about the crank skating in the races.  Always interested to learn more.

Man I love the sound of an open exhaust lol.  I was using ear protection and it was still loud. I dont know how I tolerated an open exhaust .19 McCoy as a teenager.

I'm very curious to see what the motor does in the air.  It's got some chops. It was swing an 8x6 at 9600rpm ish on the ritch end (all I had).  I have an 8x4 on order.
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Post  Ken Cook Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:44 am

I still find your prop choice to be too much. A 7x4 is a better choice and a 7x6 would be my personal max. The problem is finding a wider bladed 7x4. Master Airscrew for example has made a dozen versions of this prop over the years and the toothpick narrow bladed version is only good for stirring paint. The APC 7x4 is probably the better available choice nowadays.  I don't know what the new Master Airscrew GF series is like but the version before it was no good. I spray painted them orange and would stick them in the ground to mark where my handle was. Most .15 iron piston engines run a 7x6. The Enya however isn't a barn burner in terms of rpm's. It's a very low performance rpm engine for a .15. If control line is your choice of flying, The Enya works extremely well on a Sig Skromaster swinging a 7x4. A 8x4 while it would work flying level, as soon as consistent maneuvers begin, the engine isn't going to like it and it's going to overheat and begin to sag. I've mentioned the loudness of the Mccoy .19 when that engine has come up on topic. It's EXTREMELY loud and the .35 is a much more mellow deeper note which isn't ear piercing. Most smaller engines hit a DB level that our inner ear parts don't tolerate.
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Post  layback209 Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:07 pm

@Ken Cook wrote:I still find your prop choice to be too much. A 7x4 is a better choice and a 7x6 would be my personal max. The problem is finding a wider bladed 7x4. Master Airscrew for example has made a dozen versions of this prop over the years and the toothpick narrow bladed version is only good for stirring paint. The APC 7x4 is probably the better available choice nowadays.  I don't know what the new Master Airscrew GF series is like but the version before it was no good. I spray painted them orange and would stick them in the ground to mark where my handle was. Most .15 iron piston engines run a 7x6. The Enya however isn't a barn burner in terms of rpm's. It's a very low performance rpm engine for a .15. If control line is your choice of flying, The Enya works extremely well on a Sig Skromaster swinging a 7x4. A 8x4 while it would work flying level, as soon as consistent maneuvers begin, the engine isn't going to like it and it's going to overheat and begin to sag. I've mentioned the loudness of the Mccoy .19 when that engine has come up on topic. It's EXTREMELY loud and the .35 is a much more mellow deeper note which isn't ear piercing. Most smaller engines hit a DB level that our inner ear parts don't tolerate.

Thanks Ken, I do indeed have some 7" props I can test out.  Yeah I definitely don't want the lines to go unrecoverable slack.  For fuel I'm using sig 15% nitro 20% all castor. Very cool about yhe prop versions out there. The 8x4 is what they call scimitar series, I like thd blade area as you mentioned.  The motor seems to vibrate a fair bit, probably normal amount, have you ever experimented with using the heavey side of the prop to dampen? I think heavey end 180 from tdc would be the test. I always balance my props but on the older motors I have read about folks trying that and on the more extreme end adding tungsten inserts on the crank counterbalance.

The McCoy 19 scared the crap out of me as a youngster.  I had it mounted to a heavey crate one time in a garage, Holy smokes, the noise and it buzzed around yhe floor slowly, so you had to hold it lol.
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Post  sosam117 Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:24 pm

Here is a link to give you the basics of the bearing ratio (formally the Abbott-Firestone curve)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbott-Firestone_curve

Working for Caterpillar (Industrial Engineer) Cat sent me to school to learn about the bearing ratio and how lubrication plays a part of it. I learned a lot and was able to solve a problem years later on our high horse power camshafts.

Our high horse power cams for the Cat engine were scoring and fracturing just before the nose of the cam, destroying then the roller lifter. What we found out was when the surface was too smooth (very high - see yourself finish) came to the section of the lobe before the nose that had a lot of pressure, the oil was getting squeezed out and the roller in the lifter had no lubrication and was skidding on the lobe of the cam.
We solved the problem by adding a tumbling cycle to the rollers in a ceramic vibrating tumbler to give the rollers a less smooth surface.

I like using the Taipan props.
Have used them since 1991 but are getting harder to get here in the USA.
These props come from Australia and the only people importing them (on a limited basis) is Hobby Club.
They do have the Taipan 7x6 in stock no 7x4 though.

https://www.hobbyclub.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=29_62_109&products_id=647

Have used them on all of my Enya over the years.
What is good about them is there is a little more pitch near the hub but the pitch decreases at the tip.
So you measure them at the 1/2 way point to get the actual pitch.
Think about it?
The center is turning say at 12,000Rpm, but the tip might be turning at 85,000rpm (sub-sonic)

MADE IN AUSTRALIA, by "'TAIPAN", maker of engines and other high quality model products.
Nylon filled propellers. Efficient square tipped design, wide blade with thick airfoil to prevent pitch changes at high RPM.
Heavy reinforced hub, with 1/4" shaft hole.


Here is a website in Australia:
http://www.wightsmodelaircraft.com.au/taipan-propellers/

The "black" props have no flex in them at all and my bend your shaft on a poor landing.

The Master Airscrew GF Series prop probably would be a good 2nd choice.
The older engines (years ago) used props that had "wide" blades, like paddles and I don't think the skinny props ( APC type) will work too well with them?

Here are two photo of the "old" paddle props used back then: A Top Flite 9x7 and a B-Y&O props
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Post  Ken Cook Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:36 pm

When you mentioned vibration, it's more than likely not the prop not that it couldn't be. You need to have it on the plane to determine if it's going to impact performance. All engines at some point will generate a resonance .  Your 8' prop could be doing just that and you need to get it out of that resonance by either decreasing the 6 pitch size your currently running or go with a smaller diameter prop  to change the rpm. I will say that most APC props are very close to being balanced. Again, not impossible to be out of balance but it's impossible to balance a one cylinder engine.

        Yes, Enya tells you what props the engine will swing as will others. However, I can tell you from a control line experience your dealing with a lot of drag. The 8" prop will fly the plane but more than likely the second you pull into the wingover, the engine is going to be labored as it tries to pull the plane over the top of the circle. Reason being, .15 size engines like this Enya weigh a lot and the planes that utilize them have too much wing loading. Losing the muffler, using foam wheels, no spinners, plastic fuel tank, wood props all assist in making the plane lighter therefore making it fly better.  Running the 7" prop is like running in 2nd gear at higher rpm's  vs 4th gear with the 8" and driving the plane over the top is done so without effort.

              Just for a example, most people use these style engines for planes like the Jr Ringmaster . Period engines of the time of design had eggshell like crankcases.  The reality is that a Fox .15x weighs at 3.5 oz's or a OK Cub .14 weighs 2 3/4 oz's. The Enya .15 weighs in at 6.5 oz's with the old style muffler the newer muffler is even heavier. Essentially your now trying to make the Jr Ring fly the weight of two engines vs one. You need to do everything possible to offset the weight of the Enya. I see this a lot when many try and install OS LA .15's on older designs such as the Jr Ring. I did fly a Jr Ringmaster with the Enya but I also lengthened the fuse in the rear 2 1/4" and widened the wingspan a bit.
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Post  layback209 Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:00 pm

Sosam117, super interesting cat experience. I'd imagine you get a kick out if the gear we are using at the mine I work at. We have some of the biggest stuff on the planet, 797 haulers or mobile apartment buildings I like to term them. Electric shovels, autonomous 797s. Some of the big iron fatigue failures are wild.

Thanks for the prop background, I've saved it for quick reference. Makes sense.

Hey Ken, wow the Enya is a tank weight speaking. Yeah sounds like I'm going to need every advantage to help it out. I got foam wheels lined up, I like your thoughts on the prop to help haul it around makes a lot of sense.

I built a skyray a while back with the idea of using a .36 evo, wow it's heavey, I needed 4oz of tail weight just yo get the cg right. Still haven't flown it, 3yrs since I built it. Gotta change that.
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Post  Ken Cook Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:54 pm

I'm not a fan of Chinese products. The EVO .36 though is or I should say was a excellent engine that the control line crowd killed. No one reads instructions, strike one, everyone knows their fuel is the best, strike two, the fact that breaking out $100 is just WAAAAAAY out of the question, the end. There you have it in a nutshell the demise of probably the best stunt engine for the money ever produced. Yes, your Skyray was just too small for the EVO. The Skyray is similar to a Ringmaster in terms of wing area, it's not much larger. The EVO drives planes almost twice the size of the Skyray without effort. In fact I'm swinging a 11.5x4 prop on mine and it just does it with authority. The EVO for a ball bearing engine though is very comparable in weight just a tad heavier than a bushed .40 such as the FP.40.

               The Evo runs better with less oil therefore Omega fuels with around 14-17% oil all synthetic runs superb. I also own the EVO .60 control line engine and I absolutely love it. Sadly, very few parts available for the .36. I missed the boat on many parts thinking they would still be available. No parts at all for the .60.
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Post  layback209 Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:14 pm

@Ken Cook wrote:I'm not a fan of Chinese products. The EVO .36 though is or I should say was a excellent engine that the control line crowd killed. No one reads instructions, strike one, everyone knows their fuel is the best, strike two, the fact that breaking out $100 is just WAAAAAAY out of the question, the end. There you have it in a nutshell the demise of probably the best stunt engine for the money ever produced. Yes, your Skyray was just too small for the EVO. The Skyray is similar to a Ringmaster in terms of wing area, it's not much larger. The EVO drives planes almost twice the size of the Skyray without effort. In fact I'm swinging a 11.5x4 prop on mine and it just does it with authority. The EVO for a ball bearing engine though is very comparable in weight just a tad heavier than a bushed .40 such as the FP.40.

               The Evo runs better with less oil therefore Omega fuels with around 14-17% oil all synthetic runs superb. I also own the EVO .60 control line engine and I absolutely love it. Sadly, very few parts available for the .36. I missed the boat on many parts thinking they would still be available. No parts at all for the .60.

Oh man, I had no idea they went out of production. Jeeze, thats a bummer, the motor seemed great visually, I thought the manual was really good too and the price point was a steel for what you got I thought. I was hoping to buy another one. After doing some reading I realized that it was not the ideal plane for the engine. I originaly bought it for a smoothy, then I decided to change direction and build the skyray and thought it was close enough lol. Man I didn't know they produced a 60, that sounds awesome. I've never looked into that size of CL plane.
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Post  Ken Cook Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:02 pm

One thing I strongly dislike about .60 size planes is the size. Storage for me is a bit difficult so I limit myself to 3 models in this size and that's stretching it. The average stunt size .60 uses 8 oz's of fuel a flight to do the pattern. The Super Tiger .60 was the engine of choice for .60 size stunt. Reason being is like most crankcases from the .60's they were as thin as a eggshell making them light. The Super Tiger .60 was just under 12 oz's making it a formidable choice. The other reason is that r/c flyers demand a lot of power. Your least powerful r/c engines make your best control line stunt engines. Most r/c guys didn't approve of the Super Tiger V-.60 and settled on the Super Tiger G.60's making the V case .60's very obtainable. The EVO .60 is the only .60 in close to 50 years that weighs the same as the Tiger .60. Pete Bergstrom who recently left the planet was also a control line flyer. He and his brother in law designed the EVO around the concept that it would be a .60 in a .46 size crankcase and that it would weigh the same as the old Tiger.

So he set out to design a modern .60 which in my opinion he nailed it. The problem is that the dyed in the wool control liners that used the Super Tigers treated the newer EVO with the same care, too much oil in the fuel and too much pitch of prop rendering it a turd. The EVO uses newer technology, less oil and like any Schneurle ported engine, it wants to run fast therefore tuning it with a flatter pitch prop in the 4 range is needed. I use a 13x4 on my EVO. It flies the same amount of time on 6 oz's of fuel that older ringed piston .60's do on 8 oz's making it a economical choice. It literally is a one flip starting engine which is not only powerful, it's a pleasure to use with almost no funny business. Here's a video of my giant 65" Flite Streak with the EVO .60 .
https://www.facebook.com/513140418756097/videos/313481866086873/?__so__=channel_tab&__rv__=all_videos_card
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Post  layback209 Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:32 am

@Ken Cook wrote: Pete Bergstrom who recently left the planet was also a control line flyer. He and his brother in law designed the EVO around the concept that it would be a .60 in a .46 size crankcase and that it would weigh the same as the old Tiger.

               So he set out to design a modern .60 which in my opinion he nailed it. The problem is that the dyed in the wool control liners that used the Super Tigers treated the newer EVO with the same care, too much oil in the fuel and too much pitch of prop rendering it a turd. The EVO uses newer technology, less oil and like any Schneurle ported engine, it wants to run fast therefore tuning it with a flatter pitch prop in the 4 range is needed. I use a 13x4 on my EVO. It flies the same amount of time on 6 oz's of fuel that older ringed piston .60's do on 8 oz's making it a economical choice. It literally is a one flip starting engine which is not only powerful, it's a pleasure to use with almost no funny business. Here's a video of my giant 65" Flite Streak with the EVO .60 .
https://www.facebook.com/513140418756097/videos/313481866086873/?__so__=channel_tab&__rv__=all_videos_card

Wow that flys amazing! Love the sound of the 60, didn't miss a beat.

I'm a huge fan of the modern engines in part do to my other hobby nitro rc cars. Very familiar with the need to run lower oil content. If you run to much oil in modern engines the tuning window gets small, it overheats and performs terribly. It's actually more the fuel cooling and lubricating the motor. I have some engines that only require 10% oil, and there is 8% race fuels that are perfectly save to use as well. More than 12% oil in those motors and your in a world of hurt. Along with using the wrong plug.

Thanks for the back ground on the 60 evo, I enjoyed reading / learning that. It's a real shame. I'd certainly support anyone who would take it on, to give modelers more options over turning to electric. All im aware of now is the brodak line, and Norvel has a .15 and 40 CL offering. No 60s I know of.
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Post  Ken Cook Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:54 pm

I had just put another tank on my Flitestreak. Some suggest to make the plane fly the same speed upright or inverted. When I adjust my tank height, my method is to do inside and outsides and make the plane fly the same equally through both maneuvers which is why I was doing a bunch of loops.

Norvel made two different versions of the .15. The AME BB and the bushed Big Mig. I own several of the AME versions and they work rather well and smooth. I've also shaft run my oldest one a few times accidentally when I had a midair flying combat with them. My biggest complaint was that the drive washer comes off when I would break the prop stud and I would lose everything. I ended up drilling and tapping a hole through the side of the drivewasher to hold it on in the event I had a midair. The other is the head is a bit unconventional and you need the Norvel spanner wrench to insure it's tight or the engine has no compression or very little.
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Post  layback209 Sun May 23, 2021 10:51 am

Finally found a window to fly, wowee does that little enya 15 pull good. I had to use a clunk tank on the inboard side (all I have), and it worked very good, happy inverted, looping and figure 8s. Going to experiment with props next. I had a old nylon 8x6 wide blade on it for testing, it's not bad.

Also cranked up my first mccoy 35, wow what fun engine. Also flew amazing. Does a great 4-2-4 break.

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Post  layback209 Sun May 23, 2021 10:53 am

Here's a video of the 35. Lots of fun. Home the link works. Some time me and technology don't get along.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159613932045337&id=547700336&sfnsn=mo
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Post  rsv1cox Sun May 23, 2021 4:40 pm

@layback209 wrote:Here's a video of the 35.  Lots of fun. Home the link works. Some time me and technology don't get along.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159613932045337&id=547700336&sfnsn=mo

Couldn't access your video. Beautiful country up there according to your pictures. I'm a big fan of Enya's and McCoy's.
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Post  layback209 Sun May 23, 2021 8:44 pm

@rsv1cox wrote:

Couldn't access your video.  Beautiful country up there according to your pictures.  I'm a big fan of Enya's and McCoy's.  

Thanks, it is a really nice area. We are a stones throw from a river, and we're flying in the river valley. Everything is greening up nicely this spring.

Sorry about the link, thanks gor letting me know. i'll see if I can make some adjustments to the video, probably a public setting or something.
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