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Post  rsv1cox Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:06 pm

Beautiful afternoon, seventy degrees and no wind. Perfect flying weather, so for the first time thought I would try the Electric Bearcat.

Hitched up the new fully charged battery and airplane and hit the switch. Prop made half a turn and contacted the asphalt. Bent the landing gear down enough to clear and tried again. Ground loop. again and again. The wires drag the left wing down and the plane doesn't make enough speed to to keep the lines taunt.

Cox Electric F-8 Bearcat day - Not wonderful P1010919
Cox Electric F-8 Bearcat day - Not wonderful P1010920


Just for fun I called the 800 number. "Sorry, the number you have dialed is no longer in service." Sadly, neither is the plane.

Cox Electric F-8 Bearcat day - Not wonderful P1010921

But, I did get it's brother hung successfully along with Mexican Black Widow.

Cox Electric F-8 Bearcat day - Not wonderful P1010922

And, one more thing then I'll shut up.

While hanging those planes I had to move this vintage build (I figure 1950's) T-28 that I have posted about before. It's my all-time favorite rescue. From a crushed and beaten airframe and a nasty Enya .29 to something respectable. I left most of the castor slinging stains (Kim would be proud) on the airplane, they fly out on the wings at a near perfect 120 degree angle. Rebuilt the Enya and bench tested it before installation. It's ready to go, but with someone more reliable than me at the handle. I love the thing.

Cox Electric F-8 Bearcat day - Not wonderful P1010923
Cox Electric F-8 Bearcat day - Not wonderful P1010925
Cox Electric F-8 Bearcat day - Not wonderful P1010924



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Post  NEW222 Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:00 pm

Dang. Sorry to hear that the plane was unable to make it off of the ground. I was thinking it would have taken off very quickly and would have to slow the flight down. Heck, I would have thought that it would have more than enough power to do it. I wonder if a bigger battery would have made it work, and even one better. How did they actually fly when brand new?
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Post  1/2A Nut Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:56 pm

The old stock battery pack likely a NIMH does not put out enough juice.
The power / capacity has degraded over time. Is that a parallel 4.8v system?

Small Cox Logo Old Bugger RC Plane Thumbs Up
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Post  Ken Cook Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:01 pm

The reality is that these planes have no wing area and a very thin airfoil and are too heavy. Many Cox planes are the same way and the more scale they are, the worse the problem is. Cox planes and the competition were responsible for more people leaving the hobby then sticking with it. The glitter wears off real quick when the plane is in pieces all over the ground.
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Post  dckrsn Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:05 pm

On a lighter note Bob, I'd have more than a little
freaked out if someone answered that 800 number.
Twilight Zone material for sure. Shocked
Bob
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Post  rsv1cox Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:47 pm

The battery is a brand new 1200 MAH battery just received last week that replaced the 700 MAH. Charged it fully before trying to fly it.  

Problem is the insulated lines are just to heavy and weigh the left wing down.  I tried holding the lines above my head to offset the weight but to no avail, it still ground looped each of the four times I tried it.  Another problem is the rudder, it's non-existent.  I'm thinking perhaps a styrene or balsa rudder extension glued on might help.  

In German Buddy's and friends video they flew inside off a smooth floor with less rolling resistance than my driveway offers.    Also, I think this one may have my replacement 5/3 prop rather than the recommended 5.5/3.  Got to check that.

Original thread.

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t14972-electric-cox-f-8-bearcat-x2
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Post  rsv1cox Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:02 pm

dckrsn wrote:On a lighter note Bob, I'd have more than a little
freaked out if someone answered that 800 number.
Twilight Zone material for sure. Shocked
Bob

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5aW08ivHU

An old favorite of mine..................The Hitch hiker.
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Post  dckrsn Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:39 pm

rsv1cox wrote:
dckrsn wrote:On a lighter note Bob, I'd have more than a little
freaked out if someone answered that 800 number.
Twilight Zone material for sure. Shocked
Bob
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5aW08ivHU
An old favorite of mine..................The Hitch hiker.  
Oooooh mommy! That was great. Inger Stevens, one of the
most beautiful women to walk the earth.
Thanks, Bob.
Bob
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:57 am

Ya know Bob, ever since I wrote that I have been trying to remember her name.  Thank you!

A lot of the stars of that era sought rolls on TZ.

Bob
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Post  getback Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:33 am

Is that the on the guy in a cafe guzzles a steaming hot coffee !!LOL O bob O Bob , Greenie for effort,  i see these guy were even fling with streamer!  Just wondering did you lube the motor bearing at the ends ? What U mean no rudder Huh... what's up with that . Maybe some cardboard ? or you could repave the drive DUH Laughing
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:25 pm

Seems like the motor has plenty of oomph Eric, It's those darn heavy lines that drag/catch on the asphalt that cause ground loops.  The thing is so light that to maintain line tension you have to hold back which doesn't help either.  

There is the option of fuel, replace the electric motor with a Babe Bee and lines with dacron/spider wire.  Not much sense in that, I have so many balsa models that fly better than plastic.  But, it's an interesting piece to have and represents a minor part of Cox's presence.
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Post  roddie Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:56 pm

rsv1cox wrote:Seems like the motor has plenty of oomph Eric, It's those darn heavy lines that drag/catch on the asphalt that cause ground loops.  The thing is so light that to maintain line tension you have to hold back which doesn't help either.  

There is the option of fuel, replace the electric motor with a Babe Bee and lines with dacron/spider wire.  Not much sense in that, I have so many balsa models that fly better than plastic.  But, it's an interesting piece to have and represents a minor part of Cox's presence.

oo gawd.. shoot.. crap.. well; we knew this might be a crap-shoot.. Laughing Seriously though... Robert.. I think that there's excessive resistance in the system; more than the original design imposed. "Excessive resistance to fly".. Laughing just kidding Robert!

If you were to "jumper" a short harness with an in-line switch to the motor.. you might see marked improvement. If so; consider the quality of the OEM wire which is now 30+ years old. Shocked

The electrical-wire/control-lines weren't a good idea.. but they "did" work when new..

This particular Cox model airplane might as well be a slot-car.. and it's lines/wires need to be good.. or at least "new". A few drops of oil on the motor bushings (as Eric mentioned..) wouldn't hurt.. but I'll bet that new wire-lines would be in order.

The "switch" could also be questionable. Is it making full-contact.. Are all the connections soldered and connected in a way that would afford the least electrical resistance?

I'm not recommending buying a spool of hi-flex 22GA wire.. but if you "had any".. I'd replace the old wire. The old wire might work for launching model rockets.. but not for the continuous current-draw that we're looking at here.

Maybe "tie a streamer" to help launching. Don't give-up on this one yet.. Smile
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Post  roddie Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:22 pm

Ken Cook wrote:                The reality is that these planes have no wing area and a very thin airfoil and are too heavy. Many Cox planes are the same way and the more scale they are, the worse the problem is. Cox planes and the competition were responsible for more people leaving the hobby then sticking with it. The glitter wears off real quick when the plane is in pieces all over the ground.

Yea.. good points Ken. There's also a good chance that the hobby would have died-off years earlier.. if it wasn't for a good deal of youth-exposure through the combination of Cox advertisements/marketing/parts-support over many years. Piloting any prospective airplane (model or full-scale..) has always had its challenges. I for instance; have absolutely no desire to pilot a full-scale aircraft... but the models fascinate me.
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Post  NEW222 Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:05 pm

I too never gave it any thought roddie, but I am thinking that you just may be onto something with the lines holding resistance. Something I never thought of till I read your post.
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Post  dckrsn Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:29 pm

Ken Cook wrote:                The reality is that these planes have no wing area and a very thin airfoil and are too heavy. Many Cox planes are the same way and the more scale they are, the worse the problem is. Cox planes and the competition were responsible for more people leaving the hobby then sticking with it. The glitter wears off real quick when the plane is in pieces all over the ground.
Adding to Ken's post, wing area is one reason the Stuka and PT-19 were popular. They were a lot more
forgiving if you didn't know what you were doing with the engine. A lot of the crashed planes probably
barely took off sputtering, surging or 4 stroking. Been there, about 60yrs ago.
If you wanted to get a "Cox Wings" plane, or "Testors Fly 'Em" off the ground,
you'd have to run them full tilt. Not an easy assignment with the pipe bomb's
needle valve or an unpredictable Estes engine. I don't think I've ever seen one
of those Star Wars planes listed as used, great condition either.
Am I preaching to the choir? Embarassed
Bob
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Post  germanbuddy Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:34 pm

getback wrote:Is that the on the guy in a cafe guzzles a steaming hot coffee !!LOL O bob O Bob , Greenie for effort,  i see these guy were even fling with streamer!  Laughing  

Yep Sir , ...
fling with streamer and made one cut , half of Richards streamer , @ 1:07 Mins. Warm ,
we called it "Bearcat Combat" Airplane Airplane .

Hand Shake Beer Cheers This Site Rocks!
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Post  rsv1cox Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:24 am

Well, thanks to GB and friend we know that these do indeed fly.  But we need more information.  When did you fly them?  ROG or some assist needed?  Disassemble and lube the motor prior to flight or fly right out of the box?  How much built in rudder?  Did you have to hold the lines off the floor to prevent drag?  

I think the under wing mid wing lead in's may be a contributing factor.  But I believe they did this to mitigate the weight effect of the leads rather than having them exit at the wings tip.

Cox Electric F-8 Bearcat day - Not wonderful P1010935

Think I will try to tach each of the three motors.


Thanks - Bob
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Post  getback Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:35 am

Germanbuddy , were you the one fling in the event? Do you have any input on why the plane is not fling for Bob . I agree smaller /neer wire would bee an improvement from the old thats on there . Still don't get the no rudder deal . Huh... o i see it has a rudder just no offset , i don't think that's a big thing till you can get in the air .


Last edited by getback on Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : change meaning)
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Post  rsv1cox Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:56 am

This is my problem as I see it.

The control leads exit mid-way under the wing causing the leads to droop and touching the ground.  If they were positioned on top of the wing through wing tip guides that would help eliminate the problem.  Not so much of a problem on a smooth floor, but a big problem on rough surfaces that catches the lines.

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Post  getback Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:24 am

Well if its a flier then make a wire guide for under the wind out at the end and run the wires through it to get them close to what your talking about .. all you need it a couple small holes/paperclip/glue.
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Post  rsv1cox Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:03 pm

Mark is smarter than I am. Gets it from his mother.

I said - You will never get it in the air. Whipped it in the air but was afraid to bring his arm down lest it fall. Got the dizzy's dropped it on the driveway and it skidded off into the grass.

Cox Electric F-8 Bearcat day - Not wonderful P1010936
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Post  NEW222 Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:39 pm

Congrats to both you and Mark for getting it airborne! Must have been nice to see it in the air where it is supposed to be! Clapping
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Post  germanbuddy Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:40 pm

getback wrote:Germanbuddy , were you the one fling in the event? Do you have any input on why the plane is not fling for Bob .

Yes Sir,
wearing a black sweater.
Look for flat ,free of sand , tiny stones etc. runway.
Whip the lines ,pull handle in front your chest ,
running corkscrew path to center of circle,
like Team-Racers do.

Very Happy Peter
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Post  germanbuddy Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:57 pm

rsv1cox wrote:Well, thanks to GB and friend we know that these do indeed fly.  But we need more information.  When did you fly them?  ROG or some assist needed?  Disassemble and lube the motor prior to flight or fly right out of the box?  How much built in rudder?  Did you have to hold the lines off the floor to prevent drag?  

Thanks - Bob

We "COX Bearcat" took off 2015 @ RC Indoorflight meeting Mannheim.
ROG , NO assistance needed , just playing with Power/juice pushbutton and take off.
Sure "COX Bearcat" Pilot and Owner Richard did lube the motor .
Sure both lines need tension , if not step back.
Dont try taking off while lines laying on ground.
R E A D  COX Bearcat   I N S T R U C T I O N S
This Site Rocks!
Greetings Peter
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Post  rsv1cox Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:02 pm

Mark ran parallel and stepping backwards with the plane on the ground then whipped it into the air.  Probably 10 -15 go-arounds until he got dizzy.  There was a time when we would fly most of the day with no ill effects.  

Reread the instructions, nothing there that isn't applicable to any C/L model. Nothing about stepping back or whipping. Last plastic model I flew was a Cox Corsair that I flew off the same asphalt, it practically jumped into the air. Big difference between electric and nitro.

I'll tach all three then oil and tach again noting the difference.  Well, maybe just two of them.
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