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So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa Empty

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So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa Empty So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa

Post  rsv1cox Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:14 am

How would you do it?

A, Wouldn't do it.

B, Some sort of cement.

C, Mechanical.

D, Other.
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Post  layback209 Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:27 am

Oh man that's a good question. I have built some SPADS over the years and medium CA was the winner for me for a plastic to plastic joint. Involved sanding to rough the plastic surface, then clean good with alcohol. I guess it depends what the function of the joint is too. I imagine plastic to balsa with CA would be reasonable to test on some scrap.
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Post  944_Jim Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:08 pm

B...since you asked.for a choice.

Ok, smartalec answer mode off. I use E6000, which is a clear, fuel proof glue akin to Shoo Goo or silicone glue. It will heat plastic if used too heavily. Used lightly/sparingly, it pulls off like a bandaid.

There is also canopy glue. I think you can find it under that wording.
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Post  OVERLORD Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:12 pm

Bob, I use epoxy which works very well. In case of Coroplast, first remove the chemical layer that is on the plastic with thinner or by passing a flame very quickly over the plastic. The bulkheads of my free flight plane X12 are glued like that.

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t12774-my-latest-free-flight-plane-a-peewee-powered-jet-fighter-don-t-miss-the-vid

But I also glued entire wings to a balsa fuse.

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t9302-flying-wing-free-flight-model
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:31 pm

Thanks everyone.  I just want to finish up this long term project and get it off my workbench.  Minwax sanding sealer, Krylon white primer/Krylon gloss white.  Still have to cut the elevator, hinge and attach it.  

So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011436
So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011437

I have done three or four of these plastic tail-less wonders and have forgotten exactly what I used, but I think just plain 5 minute epoxy, but it could have been Testors red tube plastic cement or something else.  Wanted to see what other people used.  Got to reeducate myself by doing some tests.  

I'm not sure what I used on this one, I knew i wanted to try Testors but it could have been something else.  Turned out well, solid and has been bumped around over the years.  

So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011438
So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011439


Another thing, the wings had repositioned themselves to about a 30 degree up dihedral, way, way out of scale.  So for the last two years it has been setting in that hot loft storage area with weights on the wings and it's beginning to have an effect.  Now they are almost normal.

So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011440
So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011441

Pretty sure I used epoxy on this one.  It shows.  

So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011442

Not serious flyers, but I'm sure they would in a plasticky way.
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Post  Yabby Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:23 pm

@944_Jim wrote:B...since you asked.for a choice.

Ok, smartalec answer mode off. I use E6000, which is a clear, fuel proof glue akin to Shoo Goo or silicone glue. It will heat plastic if used too heavily. Used lightly/sparingly, it pulls off like a bandaid.

There is also canopy glue. I think you can find it under that wording.

the Shoo Goo is an interesting idea! I have looked at it many times in the hardware store and wondered about it. I know for plastic to balsa, my default would be sand both surfaces, clean etc. and use epoxy. But the Shoo Gloo is a really interesting thought and worth testing on some pieces to see how it goes.
The other thing sometimes I do and it might not suit this application is I pin things (not just model planes but all kinds of stuff I fix that otherwise is hard to fix). Drill/dremmel very very small holes in things where possible and essentially "pin" them using really really thin wire or even dress making pins cut and sanded / dremelled down even thinner and glued in place. That provides a bit of mechanical strength also.

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So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa Empty E6000

Post  944_Jim Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:54 pm

http://eclecticproducts.com/products/e6000/e6000-mini-tubes.html
Check the Data Sheets
I have personally used this for canopies and cowls on my boys 1/2A DPC Models clones of 1960s Scientific kits. I no longer use a bunch to glue the plastic to pre-doped wood. It generated enough heat
to warp a few places. I now use it sparingly on cowls, or the very lightest amount to create a positive sealing bead between cowl and fuselage. When I was researching this stuff 12-18 months ago, I picked up on chemical makeup being much like ShooGoo...but don't buy a tube of ShooGoo to test me.

Checking now, the MSDS looks almost the same for both products. This is no surprise to me since they come from the same manufacturer.

I get E6000 in little 4-packs (twice in the last 5 years) from Michaels Hobby Store. It is what I could get locally. If I could locally source Canopy Glue, i would be glad to try it. ISTR the Canopy Glues have the numbers 55 or 56 in the name regardless of distributor/vendor.
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:14 pm

Hmm. Shoo goo is available locally at Lowes, couldn't figure out how to order e6000 from their website. Seemed to be no ordering instructions just information regarding the product. Maybe retail only.
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Post  944_Jim Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:29 pm

Bob,
Since I was endorsing the product, and declared a similarity, I posted the manufacturer links...specifically for their weak MSDS sheets. Here are sample shots. The middle one shows distorted plastic from excessive use on the cowl (look just above the leading edge...the round spot on the cowl's back edge). The canopies however, did just fine with a thin bead around the contact points.
So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa Img_2051
So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa Img_2050
So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa Img_2052
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Post  dckrsn Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:59 pm

@rsv1cox wrote:Hmm. Shoo goo is available locally at Lowes, couldn't figure out how to order e6000 from their website.  Seemed to be no ordering instructions just information regarding the product.  Maybe retail only.  
'Ere ya go Bob,
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=e6000+glue&crid=1D657CN7DJ7IL&sprefix=e600%2Caps%2C185&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_4
Other Bob
If you scroll to the bottom of the first Amazon/E600 product page,
you'll find Ritz peanut butter crackers in bulk. Thumbs Up
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Post  rsv1cox Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:27 am

Thanks Bob, Got it. I'm ordering the twin small four pack but I don't see applicators. Small tubes better for me, I use them up before they turn hard like Walmart's CA's.

Didn't see Ritz. I got music and Steinbeck there.
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Post  rsv1cox Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:35 pm

I didn't wait for the e6000, used this instead. From what I have read about e it's about the same, regardless the plastic to painted balsa is excellent.  Like e6000 it's a slow working gel.  

So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011493

I built the new tail pieces out of balsa and used a metal rod to connect the two split elevator halfs.  Then connected to the bell crank rod.  Throw is slight but sufficient for flight.  I soaked the spinner in brake fluid to remove the slopped on sliver paint and will probably do the same for the wing tips.  Motor is new and unused.  I will snip off the looped connector to the lead outs.

So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011494
So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011495

These Fly-em are incredibly small to be sporting a .049.

So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011496

I don't know what to do about the bent wings having mixed results using a heat gun.
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Post  Ken Cook Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:56 pm

I have two Fly em Zero's. The .049 doesn't overpower it but it does move pretty fast. The exciting part is that the engine actually runs and it didn't puke it's crank out the front. I took one of the cowlings off and I lost it or I should say misplaced it for the past 20 years.
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Post  rsv1cox Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:50 am

20 years Ken, it might be a gonner.  Take a leaf blower to your workshop, I have found many lost airplane and MG parts that way.  

Added a decal to the tail and cut off the clips to the swivels.  Could be flown but I probably never will do it.

So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011497

It's going to be a wall hangar as soon as I can buld a rack for it.  No place at the Inn to put it.

So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011498
So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011500
So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011499

Might as well do one for the Zero too.

So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011501
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Post  getback Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:02 am

Repair looks good , so I guess the glue you used worked out alright , They will look better and last longer on the wall
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Post  rsv1cox Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:48 am

@getback wrote:Repair looks good , so I guess the glue you used worked out alright , They will look better and last longer on the wall

My old guy spastic hands caused them to be bumped a couple of times and they still held.  

I Knocked out the racks for the Zero and BF-109 this morning.  The family snickered when I scavanged the shelves from my daughters old TV/Stereo console....guess whose laughing now.  Smile  Saved me a lot of sanding and staining.  Still had to stain the table saw cut bitter ends.  I take pictures as memory prompts for me.  What did I use to stain/paint/fix that thing?  Answered a lot of questions for me over the years.

So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011502
So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011503

The Zero is by far the better of the Fly-ems. Thicker plastic and the Zero design helps.
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Post  Ken Cook Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:15 pm

Where's the meatballs on your wings?
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Post  rsv1cox Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:50 pm

Ya know, I never noticed that, probably did but never registered.  You hit 80 and everything goes south.  Sad

Sent me downstairs to see if the other one had them, nope.  Measured the fuselage one and came up with about 3/4".  See if I can find one on-line and dump it on some sticky backed paper or get a decal off ebay something I hesitate to do, swore off that.  Got too much stuff.  

Got the Zero and BF-109 mounted and hung.  Gives me room where the Zero was to get the T-28 up off the floor.  

Just does not want to go vertical

So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011507

So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011505
So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011506

Getting crowded, got to install an ATC.  Still have room to get out the Fly-em Spitfire and put it above and to the right of the big P-51.  

Fly-ems.  Not serious stuff, but still an important part of nitro powered model airplanes and probably got many people started in the hobby.
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Post  rsv1cox Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:02 pm

Love these pictures

So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa 1280px17
So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa 1280px18

I would have taken a week just to wander around this.
So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa A6m5_s10

So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa 1280px19
So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa Mitsub10

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Post  remand Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:12 am

@rsv1cox wrote:How would you do it?

A, Wouldn't do it.

B, Some sort of cement.

C, Mechanical.  

D, Other.

E. the only that lead to success is truth. email, [spam]@gmail.com
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Post  rsv1cox Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:01 pm

Always room for one more.

It occured to me that Testors Cosmic Wind was a Fly-em too so I built a rack and added it. Mark Boesen's thread about it here:

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t4126-testors-cox-cosmic-wind

Like most of my stuff it was bought as a project.

I always liked the look and the belly pan's design helped add some camber to the replacement wing.

So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011508
So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011510
So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011509

Test fitting

So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011512
So, if you were going to permanently attach plastic to balsa P1011511
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Post  944_Jim Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:33 pm

Bob,
Where is the Mossie? Shocked

And in the bone yard...background airplane with longer canopy...do I spy with my little eye a twin? What is it? Huh...
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Post  rsv1cox Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:08 am

@944_Jim wrote:Bob,
Where is the Mossie? Shocked

And in the bone yard...background airplane with longer canopy...do I spy with my little eye a twin? What is it? Huh...

It's center stage on the game table pictured above Jim. Still unflown but loved. Enya's a little stiff from neglect. Waiting for one of the hot sticks here to show up and fly it.

I couldn't ID the other plane that you mentioned.

I imagine some think it strange, hanging models on the wall. But I like getting them out where I can see them not stuffed away in a closet somewhere. But I have to admit, I got a bunch sitting there also.
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