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Post  layback209 Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:34 pm

I'm not after peak performance with mine. I have been using an os 8 in it. Engines seem to like it. I've run 0.061 norvels and 0.049 TD with it. I haven't had a leaking issue yet. I actually kinda perfer it because I can use a conventional igniter. Been mostly using it to break in engines with. I thought that the lower compression in combination with the ritch settings is a good match. In bench runs I observed 19,500 peak on a tired td 0.051 5x3 20% nitro, and roughly 17,500 on the norvel 0.061 with 6x3 15% nitro.

I swap the os 8 head out for the standard ones for flying. But take it to the field as a back up option.

I have a few youtube action videos I could share if your interested to see how they were running with it.
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Post  ChaseBanner Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:37 pm

layback209 wrote:I'm not after peak performance with mine.  I have been using an os 8 in it.  Engines seem to like it.  I've run 0.061 norvels and 0.049 TD with it.  I haven't had a leaking issue yet.  I actually kinda perfer it because I can use a conventional igniter.  Been mostly using it to break in engines with. I thought that the lower compression in combination with the ritch settings is a good match.  In bench runs I observed 19,500 peak on a tired td 0.051 5x3 20% nitro, and roughly 17,500 on the norvel 0.061 with 6x3 15% nitro.

I swap the os 8 head out for the standard ones for flying.  But take it to the field as a back up option.

I have a few youtube action videos I could share if your interested to see how they were running with it.
not really after peak power either just looking for a somewhat consistent run....Yes please share vids!!!
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Post  layback209 Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:47 pm

Here you go;
Td 0.051 engine run in at 4:10 after tune up, os 8


Norvel 0.061 break in.


Let me know if you have any questions.
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Post  ChaseBanner Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:00 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:Personally I’d be more worried about fuel availability, but new heads are available from the usual sources, I pick up heads from swap meets quite regularly.

It may have been mentioned already, depending on the adapter it can lower compression and make the engine perform not so great. Balogh’s suggestions are some of the better ones available.
worried bout fuel availability myself. glowpligboy $26 quart after shipping, my lhs only sells synthetic so might have to make my own. pretty sure i can buy nitro here in town and the methanol and castor are easy.....ever heard of anyone dumping castor directly into synthetic fuel? i do know if you mix synthetic gear oil with regular gear oil in a truck diff or transmission and run it a bit it gets real foamy.and usually turns a dark orange color gonna have to figure out something soon or just build only this winter.....Guess ill pick up $100 bucks worth of glow heads why the dollar is still worth something cause these little engines just look funny with a standard plug. maybe id feel different had my first internal combustion been something other than a cox
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Post  Surfer_kris Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:28 am

You don't need that many glow heads unless you are doing something wrong, like using too much power for the filament.

I've only had to change out the head in few secondhand engines that I've bought, those had been put away "wet" and stored for a very long time, while the ones I'm using regularly will always last a very long time.

You can get adapters for Turbo plugs and Nelson plugs instead, these work really well.
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Post  ChaseBanner Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:24 am

Surfer_kris wrote:You don't need that many glow heads unless you are doing something wrong, like using too much power for the filament.

I've only had to change out the head in few secondhand engines that I've bought, those had been put away "wet" and stored for a very long time, while the ones I'm using regularly will always last a very long time.

You can get adapters for Turbo plugs and Nelson plugs instead, these work really well.
nope 4 d cells in parallel just to compensate extra current for the extra wire length and the spade terminals. I do however run on the richer side of things and a;ready went through more than a few glow heads since early spring. think maybe current is too high for old glow heads?
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Post  Surfer_kris Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:33 am

When did the filaments break, during start-up with power on or while flying?

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Post  ChaseBanner Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:13 am

Surfer_kris wrote:When did the filaments break, during start-up with power on or while flying?

seems like shortly after startup, might make a lap around the field and im sure i lost 1 0r 2 just trying to get her started....guess from here on out i need to pay attention to when, where and what. i guess it really doesnt help flying with 20 plus year old plugs either. Im sure over voltage can cause plug loss on startup but is there any other factors besides throwing too many volts at the plug that cause failure on startup? thanks
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Post  ChaseBanner Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:19 am

layback209 wrote:Here you go;


Let me know if you have any questions.
i could watch this stuff all day if only I didnt have time to play or bills to pay
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Post  getback Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:39 am

For one thing sounds like your running too rich (wide open will help the plug catalyst stay brighter ) And less burnout , If not wide open , lean it out and backoff just enough to hear a change in rpms . I have ran 20 yr. old plugs with no problem . Small Cox Logo
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Post  getback Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:42 am

Oh and the fuel needs to bee Hi nitro so when you mix in castor it want go to far down! There is a calculator for this also https://www.scribd.com/document/405424632/Castor-oil-percent-calculator Hope this helps . Vets Day
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Post  Surfer_kris Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:33 am

ChaseBanner wrote:
seems like shortly after startup, might make a lap around the field and im sure i lost 1 0r 2 just trying to get her started....guess from here on out i need to pay attention  to when, where and what. i guess it really doesnt help flying with 20 plus year old plugs either. Im sure over voltage can cause plug loss on startup but is there any other factors besides throwing too many volts at the plug that cause failure on startup? thanks

If it breaks when starting or shortly after, it is likely due to too much current though the filament. I think the heads where designed for the old-school 1.5V dry-cell batteries (the large ones, no. 6) that's what we used to use around here when they were available.

If the filament breaks/melts in the middle or near the end of a flight I'm guessing it is due to too much nitro and/or too high compression ratio.

Old filaments can loose their catalytic activity, so the engine will need power applied in order to stay running, but the filaments should not melt/brunt-out from old age alone.

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Post  ChaseBanner Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:48 am

getback wrote:Oh and the fuel needs to bee Hi nitro so when you mix in castor it want go to far down! There is a calculator for this also https://www.scribd.com/document/405424632/Castor-oil-percent-calculator  Hope this helps . Vets Day
so i could just add castor to synthetic based heli fuel?
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Post  ChaseBanner Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:05 am

getback wrote:For one thing sounds like your running too rich (wide open will help the plug catalyst stay brighter ) And less burnout , If not wide open , lean it out and backoff just enough to hear a change in rpms . I have ran 20 yr. old plugs with no problem . Small Cox Logo
yep bet ur right, kinda ashamed of myself though for as long as ive been flying i should have put 2 and 2 together. always like my stuff rich or so i thought, still using the weed eater i bought 20 years ago....i heard someone say years ago before al gore invented the inter-webs running an abc engine rich was bad for it and i just wrote him off as a loafer who just wanted to talk. maybe ill lean one out and burn her up for fun
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Post  layback209 Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:21 pm

I have had good success using r/c car fuel to make 1/2a fuel.   If you pick up a gallon of 30% nitro 12% oil and top up with castor (sig castor or your choice) to 20-22% oil. You get a decent 20% nitro 1/2a fuel.  I was forced into doing that when there was no local options for a while. Then I discovered that great hobbies in Canada can ship quarts, 100$ In store buys gets you free shipping.

In the US Bones Brew, will ship to your door. In Quarts bottles that is. If you dont mind adding your own oil in.

https://www.bonesmotorsports.com/Bones-Brew_bymfg_3-0-1.html

I don't see a problem with 30% nitro helicopter fuel. Maybe just check the ratio of synthetic to castor. 50/50 has been a good option for me after you to the oil up. May have some issues if you go higher on the synthetic end.
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Post  Yabby Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:18 pm

I think the one thing to remember with fuel with different and higher nitro values is the rule of them that I either learnt from Ken or Paul Gibeault or maybe both, dont remember sorry, but 1 head gasket per 10% Nitro. I run 25% Castor, 25% nitro, 50% methanol as I mix myself and its cheap and easy for me to get the individual constituents. I use 3 head gaskets with Cox and Kamtechnik heads and have found I get great performance and easy starting and very good plug life. For me, that is the sweet spot on 049 TD and 049 slitted surestart engines. This assumes the engines are just run in and not yet suffering from wear and tear where compression is bypassing between piston and cylinder wall. I also do not run my engines lean! I run just a fraction back of lean, ha, probably simply the correct mixture :-) I run pressure from my muffler and my engines do not run lean at the end of a flight, they just stop when the fuel runs out. Lol. Which can be exciting cheers

I do use a couple of extra head shimms on brand new TD cylinder and piston as I find it definitely makes it easier to start them first up when running them in, but then I shift back to 3.

Different fuel, oil, nitro mixes, and altitude, air temp, pressure, prop size,.... Fuel being clean!!!! running or not running lean, correct voltage and current, plug brand and type, will ALL impact the plug life and its performance or perceived performance as the plug may be performing within its specification but other factors are not correct for the plug, resulting in short plug life and poor performance.

That all said, in some situations such as fast combat and racing you might be prepared to destroy plugs at a rapid rate to squeeze the last ounce of performance out of an engine knowingly at the cost of plug life.

I might have made it sound complicated, but most heads and plugs can be setup to work really well if you understand what it is you want from them.

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Post  ChaseBanner Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:26 am

thanks for all the wonderful input on glow head adapters. My adapter was leaking so i used permatex gasket maker(used daily on the job past 20 years, good stuff) and applied with a toothpick, sealed up just fine, plus smells like grape kool aid and doesn't dry until you remove the presence of oxygen. thanks again guys for the wonderful info and advice, happy landings all...
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Post  Lukemiester Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:46 am

I know it’s the wrong engine and too late, but my Queen Bee really likes the mecoa 09 head and a k&b long medium idle bar plug. Idles really nice and runs very smooth for a cox at higher rpms.
I know cox used their own adapter on the tee dee RC 09 as well, I’ve yet to see how that likes its stock head. Small Cox Logo
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Post  ChaseBanner Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:42 am

Lukemiester wrote:I know it’s the wrong engine and too late, but my Queen Bee really likes the mecoa 09 head and a k&b long medium idle bar plug. Idles really nice and runs very smooth for a cox at higher rpms.
I know cox used their own adapter on the tee dee RC 09 as well, I’ve yet to see how that likes its stock head. Small Cox Logo
better late than never, im sure someone will be happy to know. since mecoa bought out the leftover inventory from fox mfg maybe they make a glow head adapter for my fox 07 im planning on running on my norvel vision(cox katydid clone) that if i get real bored this winter might recover in yellow. a fake katydid is better than no katydid
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Post  ChaseBanner Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:45 am

layback209 wrote:I have had good success using r/c car fuel to make 1/2a fuel.   If you pick up a gallon of 30% nitro 12% oil and top up with castor (sig castor or your choice) to 20-22% oil. You get a decent 20% nitro 1/2a fuel.  I was forced into doing that when there was no local options for a while. Then I discovered that great hobbies in Canada can ship quarts, 100$ In store buys gets you free shipping.

In the US Bones Brew, will ship to your door. In Quarts bottles that is. If you dont mind adding your own oil in.

https://www.bonesmotorsports.com/Bones-Brew_bymfg_3-0-1.html

I don't see a problem with 30% nitro helicopter fuel. Maybe just check the ratio of synthetic to castor.  50/50 has been a good option for me after you to the oil up. May have some issues if you go higher on the synthetic end.
thanks. i really hope i dont have to resort to mixing castor with synthetic but if thats the only option glad to know i can still keep my small birds in the air. pretty sure i can get nitro locally so depending on cost i might just mix up a batch myself. i also read somewhere(wish i knew where)u can use either(starting fluid) as a nitro sub. yabby(i think)lobster guy posted a simple mix ratio above, easy enough it seems. thanks for the tip on the low oil synthetic car fuel, can anyone make a better excuse to to check the connecting rod/piston slack.
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Post  balogh Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:53 am

Hi ChaseBanner, if I understand your last sentence well, castor in itself will not make the periodic check of piston conrod balljoint  unnecessary, but it will prevent the fatal failure of the balljoint, ending up with a piston top  worn thin and getting punctured by the conrod small end from below.

In my experience, castor varnish gives a lasting internal lining to the balljoint cup, which  separates the mating metal surfaces. Synt oil cannot do that so efficiently, so the conrod small end will wear the piston bottom thin if fuel contains synth oil only...a specialty of COX engines and all others with balljoints..

But even if castor is used as lubricant, a too tight balljoint resetting, not allowing castor to flow between the cup and the small end will result in a piston top punctured   open by non-lubricated friction of the mating parts...been there, seen that, done that unfortunately more than once...

The conrod balljoint connection can get loose - not by wearing, but by the conrod small end hammering the swaged cup open - if the engine is used at its max output for long, and usually 1 or 2 resetting will solve this issue until the end of the engine life.

Resetting will make the balljoint cup material hardened. My oldest COX TeeDee051 with more than 300 hours on its clock saw   its conrod balljoint reset only once, early in its service , and since then it holds absolutely well.
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