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Post  germanbuddy Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:51 am

Does anyone know a source for high quality COX tool ?.
This soft steel stamped tool doesn't make me happy.
When you are in the field, a hair dryer is out of reach to help you.
Thanks´n rgds
Peter
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COX tool ? Dsci2631
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Post  sosam117 Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:05 am

Peter,
I feel your pain.
I too have problems with those stamped wrenches from Cox and Enya.
But I have solved my problem with wrenches that I have purchased from Germany.
Bought them online and they came as a set.

Best set of wrenches that I have bought. I later on bought a second pair for everyday use as well.
I use these wrenches over a crescent wrench now and the crescent wrenches are really never used anymore.

These wrenches or superior over the crescent wrench because the jaws grip evenly whereas the crescent wrench jaws open up and the jaws are no longer parallel.

The wrenches are named Knipex  from Rodman and Company since 1928.
These wrenches have jaws that close parallel and are good to support those stamped wrenches.

You might be able to get the same wrenches where you are?

Below are the photos of how I use them to support the soft jaws on those stamped wrenches.
COX tool ? 01_kni10
COX tool ? 04_kni10
COX tool ? 03_kni10
COX tool ? 02_kni10
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Post  germanbuddy Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:09 am

Thanks sosam117,

not planing to bend back "COX tool" with Knipex tool you show on photo and try it again.
I have Knipex in my workshop.
This soft steel COX tool will bend back and deform  more easyly like before.
I am looking for COX tool copy , V2A stainless steel or Titanium .
Soft steeltools wont work at the field when there is no hair dryer avail. .
p.s.
one "Knipex" wont never ever touch one of my engines , never.

An old saying: your tool must be harder than the nut.

Thanks´n regards
Cool Peter


Last edited by germanbuddy on Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:47 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post  Levent Suberk Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:17 am

I use these pliers to remove cylinder. More comfortable and easy.
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Post  germanbuddy Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:41 am

Levent Suberk wrote:I use these pliers to remove cylinder. More comfortable and easy.
Hello Levent ,
with a like Knipex tool , pliers ?.
Be careful , you can/will deform cylinder oval by thousends of mm
with too much muscle power.
Cylinder is´nt that not strong/hard enough.
Not a smart idea , any tool marks ?.
rgds. Peter
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Post  Levent Suberk Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:51 am

I use flat jaws, non serrated one. Tried it on double slit exhausted cylinder. I once used too much force, but no twist any. I used pliers, because Cox tool twisted when I tried to remove cylinder.
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Post  roddie Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:36 am

I don't know of any aftermarket wrenches to fit Cox engines.. but an option would be a length of tool-steel flat-stock, cut to the outer-dimensions of the OEM Cox .049 tool.. and then notched-out. A shop with a plasma cutter could do it for you. I checked the width of the notches of 3 different wrenches that I have.. and found the widest to be .315" or 8.0mm.

The exhaust-port cut-ins (where the tool seats) of my #1 and #2 .049 cylinders measured an average .295" to .300".

The US standard inch-fraction of 5/16" = .3125".. but I doubt that Cox figured that into the equation for the wrench size.

***Just a cautionary note; a "tougher" wrench-material could cause deformation to a severely-stuck cylinder... especially if that cylinder was an earlier thin-wall one.

I do understand your feeling; that a purpose-designed tool should be sturdy enough for the task it was designed for. Under normal conditions, I think that the Cox tool holds up pretty well.

I assume that you were attempting to remove the glowhead at the field using two wrenches?

If I were to suggest an addition to your field-box, it would be a butane micro-torch.. to take the place of the hairdryer's heat. Just be cognizant of any inflammable (fuel) materials in the vicinity.
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Post  fredvon4 Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:48 pm

A guy might be tempted to Google Mild steel hardening by heat using air or oil quenching.....or just look in my engineering handbook
Jest saying
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Post  Levent Suberk Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:11 pm

I once used this adjustable wrench. Cylinder stuck in crankcase and Cox tool twisted. I didn't think too much and  heated the cylinder a little then turned the 12" wrench with full force. It could be break or loosen. That was the question. Successfully removed without any twist. Very Happy

Note: Thick wall cylinder it is.

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Post  sosam117 Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:34 pm

germanbuddy wrote:Thanks sosam117,

not planing to bend back "COX tool" with Knipex tool you show on photo and try it again.
I have Knipex in my workshop.
This soft steel COX tool will bend back and deform  more easyly like before.
I am looking for COX tool copy , V2A stainless steel or Titanium .
Soft steeltools wont work at the field when there is no hair dryer avail. .
p.s.
one "Knipex" wont never ever touch one of my engines , never.

An old saying: your tool must be harder than the nut.

Thanks´n regards
Cool Peter

Peter,
I use the Knipex tool on the outside of the Cox wrench to keep it from bending out.
Not to bend the Cox tool back into shape.
The other thing when using the Cox wrench in the Knipex jaws is that you'll not close down any farther because the Knipex jaws will be stopped by the Cox wrench.
You can try it by bending back the Cox tool with the Knipex tool.
Then you'll see that the jaws will not go any farther when the Cox wrench is straightened out.
Just give it a try?
I have not damaged any (not one) Cox cylinder or Enya cylinder using this method.
The jaws on the Knipex tool is only supporting the mild steel Cox wrench.
The jaws on the Knipex tool goes beyond the "U" shape of the Cox tool to where it is solid across and the Knipex tool will not be able to end that solid section of the Cox wrench.

My photos show how the Knipex tool only supports the weak Cox tool and it does not do any harm to the cylinder.

I do not use the Knipex tool to hold the crankcase as the tool "will" distort the case!


Last edited by sosam117 on Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : support the Cox tool and does no harm)
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Post  Cribbs74 Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:00 pm

I guess everyone has a way of doing things, but to be honest if the Cox tools aren’t working then something else is wrong. A rudimentary understanding of thermal expansion and it’s effect on different alloys also castor hardening goes a long way in helping to tackle just about any problem when disassembling these engines.

In the field, make sure the engine has cooled down completely before going at it with a wrench. Threads lock tight when expanded. I am not sure what you were attempting to do, but those wrenches have had some pretty good force behind them to bend like that.

All that said I will suggest this. Cox made a variety of tools with various metallurgy and thicknesses The older silver/uncoated tools are better made and slightly thicker. Just get on Ebay and find a few sets of the 70’s and older tool sets. I think you will be happier with those. I only use the older tools and never have a problem with them spreading. I also don’t have a problem with the black tools either, but they are noticeably of lesser quality. If done correctly you never need anything other than the Cox designed tool.

Ron
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Post  ffkiwi Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:12 pm

I suspect the original poster is asking for the impossible....for someone to provide higher quality wrenches than the OEM ones....there has to be a  market'-and you would need to ensure before you made the commitment to manufacture that such a market existed....not to mention that you would need to manufacture thousands to keep the unit price acceptable. No one is going to buy a $50 wrench to use on a $10 engine!

In fact in 55 years of modelling experience I cannot recall a single example of anyone providing such a product. When 'specific to engine' wrenches are provided..it is ALWAYS by the original manufacturer...sometimes as part of a brand new purchase, sometimes as an optional accessory...but never by a third party manufacturer.

If the original poster is unhappy with the Cox product...the best option other than fabricating his own, would be to try and harden the original ones...that of course will require a heat source, and some form of quenching and tempering ability.

Even Cox International have resiled from getting some Cox parts remanufactured due to the pure economics of batch production numbers vs the likely sales of said items.

That being said-not all Cox wrenches are created equal-in my experience the black wrenches are stronger than the silvery ones-but the dull ones better still...and, obviously-those made of thicker material better than the thinner ones.

   ChrisM
   'ffkiwi'
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Post  germanbuddy Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:23 pm

Thanks a lot for all your inputs and hints my CEF friends  Hand Shake .
So I will keep an eye for the older silver/uncoated tool , better made and
slightly thicker steel ?, iron ? or something between ? ?.
My tool problem doesn´t show up very often ,
so makes no sense for one custom made 50 Dollar or more tool  No! .

All the BEST and stay all healthy
rgds Cool Peter
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Post  KariFS Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:43 am

Well, different things make sense to different people. I would be ready to pay good money for a proper set of tools for Cox engines, maybe not 50€ per wrench, but maybe that or more for a set for all engine sizes.

Anyway, there are several different styles of 049 wrenches. Here are samples from my modest collection that I have accumulated over the years. Most of these came with engines I bought to restore.

COX tool ? Db417410

From left to right:
1. Part #1230. I consider this to be the best one for glowheads, the closed design makes life easy. I have not used the other end for anything, although it may fit the dual slit cylinders’ top fin flats.
2. No part number on this, probably from the Space Bug era, closed end for glowhead, hexes for spinners and the other end fits nicely on exh ports.
3. Part #1530. Has the hook for Tee Dee and Medallion collet nut, feels like the metal is harder than in the later wrenches. The cylinder wrench is a good design, holds up pretty good. I have only one of these, it may or may not mean that these were a short-lived version.
4. Part #21530 looks like the most common wrench, but the cylinder removal end is a bit different. The cut-out is not as deep, so there’s more metal to prevent the jaws ”yawning”. However, the jaws on this one won’t fit on the exh ports of the engine I tested them on Huh...
5. The most common style, the silghtly problematic one. I think this is made primarily for the dual slit cylinders that have the flats on the top cooling fin. Curiously, this one bears the same part number #1530 as the one above, despite the very much different design.
6. Same as above, but with a black finish. The steel is similar, bubble-gum-like on both, regardless the finish.

I recommend you try to find the tools #2 or #3 for cylinder removal, and #1 or #2 for glowheads. You could also try to find an intact wrench and try to harden it like Fred suggested. Or grab some flat bar and make your own exhaust wrench.

It would be nice to have a cylinder wrench (both styles) and the closed-end glowhead wrench made of a thicker material. The thin ones easily slip between the cooling fins and mess them up. A thicker material (1/8” or so) would prevent that.
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Post  Levent Suberk Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:38 am

Hardening is a solution for this. Other than hardening, it is possible to weld two identical wrenches atop. Can be spot weld at several points.

First clean the surfaces with alcohol, then glue two wrenches atop with ca glue at several points. Slow curing ca glue is best. Then spot weld at several points. I think that this will work.


Last edited by Levent Suberk on Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:47 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post  Levent Suberk Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:39 am

Thanks Kari for info.
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Post  Cox International Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:32 am


We had a set made and, in the 10+ years since, have disassembled well over 20,000 engines
.

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Post  Levent Suberk Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:55 am

I remember these tools from another thread, searched but couldn't find. Cylinder wrench costs 300.00 USD if I remember right.
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Post  Cox International Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:07 pm

Ten years ago, I believe that they were CA$ 250 or so for the complete set but we only had one made. Mass-produced, we could probably get the cost down to US$ 30 or so.

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Post  cstatman Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:18 pm

how large of a run would you need to have, to make it worthwhile

or, another way to ask would be?

How many committed purchases from us on the forum would you need, to get them made?

Smile
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Post  Cox International Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:27 pm

We would not need any commitments, as production / sales are our responsibility but for a retail price of, say $70, we would likely need to get 500 made.

However, there is little appetite to spend $17,000 for something that is bound to take over a decade to sell; with a break-even point (maybe) after 5 years.
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Post  roddie Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:36 pm

The OP (CEF member germanbuddy) was asking about the wrench with provision (fork) to fit the older Cox .049 cylinders without the flats milled on the top. There's been discussion in this thread, on letting an engine cool-down from a run, before attempting to loosen the cylinder or head and conversely; that "castor-seized" components tend to benefit from the application of heat... before attempting disassembly. The standard Cox wrenches should be all that's needed.. given an understanding of the aforementioned.
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Post  Cox International Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:03 pm

roddie wrote:The OP (CEF member germanbuddy) was asking about the wrench with provision (fork) to fit the older Cox .049 cylinders without the flats milled on the top. There's been discussion in this thread, on letting an engine cool-down from a run, before attempting to loosen the cylinder or head and conversely; that "castor-seized" components tend to benefit from the application of heat... before attempting disassembly. The standard Cox wrenches should be all that's needed.. given an understanding of the aforementioned.

Thanks so much for pointing this out and, yes, this was missed when I posted; my apologies.

I have bent many a wrench that way with cylinders that were severely stuck. In some cases, as you have indicated, I had success by greatly heating the crankcase (with a heat gun) before proceeding.

Still have not found a viable solution for slit-exhaust cylinders with no "flats", or open-port cylinders with no "flats" but with a muffler or throttle-ring installed. Marquis de Sade would be proud of those Cox engineers that came up with this configuration Huh...
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Post  davidll1984 Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:36 am

I was wondering if anyone has ever tried to fix a loose piston cylinder fit Restore compression with a tool made to tight top cylinder a tool To  tightening a cylinder sleave To Re pinch cylinder ???? I have an idea that I would like to share if anyone can do it wonder if it would be possible to do ?? The cox cylinder  its soft enough for it to work Good i tink If we could machine a kind of collar or machine the outside of the cylinder remove the cooling fins then insert it insert a tightening sleave made for this Just a sharing of my ideas Any means can be used to save a 0.010 tee dee Small Cox Logo Babe Bee .049 This Site Rocks!
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Post  davidll1984 Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:10 am

I made some drawing to illustrate my explanation With a piece that I had in mind for a very long time I hope you will understand me in my vision of the improvement that I have in mind to tell the truth I wanted to make myself this piece to make it available For the others but I share this With all of you after all this is a bit of a complex modification but can work for those who know how to do it.COX tool ? 16386110
COX tool ? 16386111
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