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Post  Kim Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:34 pm

Bob's Skyflash showed up today, SECURELY packed.  It, and the spare Gilbert engine, made the trip in good shape.

Gonna do some engine runs to make friends with this stranger, then see if the winds will lay enough to fly some Classic Plastic!!!!!



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Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand 1_1102


Last edited by Kim on Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:19 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Post  davidll1984 Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:44 am

Ha ha Very Happy lol Flying Airplane I would like to be there to see it although I am unable to turn I like to watch
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Post  GallopingGhostler Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:59 am

Kim wrote:Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand 1_1102

Kim, I think your 1961 Sterling Minnie Mambo "Little Traveler" would feel at home with the 1963 Gilbert as the kit was produced the same time.
lol!

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=620
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Post  getback Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:08 am

Wow Bob got that baby to you in a hurry , this should bee Fun ! Good luck Kim Airplane cheers
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Post  rsv1cox Sat Apr 23, 2022 6:26 am

Lookin' good Kim, the Mud Dabber that is. I always liked that plane. Good luck with the Gilbert 11 and the Sky Flash. It's finally found a good home. Someday I may find the courage to fly or let Mark fly the other two.



Bob
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Post  Kim Sat Apr 23, 2022 6:27 am

"Kim, I think your 1961 Sterling Minnie Mambo "Little Traveler" would feel at home with the 1963 Gilbert as the kit was produced the same time.
lol! "

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=620[/quote]

Yeah Man!  Stand by for Photo Op!!!!!!
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Post  Kim Sat Apr 23, 2022 6:37 am

getback wrote:Wow Bob got that baby to you in a hurry , this should bee Fun ! Good luck Kim Airplane cheers

Thank You for the Well-Wishes! Gonna fly it from the dead-end ramp at Cairo's airport to have a 360 degree circle of runway, once the winds calm down a bit!
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Post  getback Sat Apr 23, 2022 6:41 am

It will bee interesting to see how good the airfoil is to keep that Gilbert in the air Very Happy
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Post  rsv1cox Sat Apr 23, 2022 7:07 am

getback wrote:It will bee interesting to see how good the airfoil is to keep that Gilbert in the air Very Happy

You got me wondering Eric. Yeah it's no lightweight.

Forgive the lousy Nikon pictures. The card reader for my Olympus is not working. New one coming.

Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand Dscn1829
Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand Dscn1830
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Post  Ken Cook Sat Apr 23, 2022 7:55 am

That's ridiculous heavy even for a strong running 1/2A. If all else fails, it could double as a tether car.
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Post  getback Sat Apr 23, 2022 7:59 am

WoWEE you got your work/skills out to bee tried . once again Good Luck ! Laughing This Site Rocks!
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Post  Kim Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:17 am

Yeah, it appears to be plenty heavy, but on 25' lines, with a full circle of asphalt, we can always conduct "Taxi Trials" !!!!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Post  rsv1cox Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:20 am

Ken Cook wrote:            That's ridiculous heavy even for a strong running 1/2A. If all else fails, it could double as a tether car.

Bright side Ken, bright side.

As one NASCAR driver once opined..."It's all ate up with engine." Smile

Heavy as a rock I might add but all three were definitely flown.
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Post  rdw777 Sat Apr 23, 2022 11:14 am

Only on CEF could something like this happen Very Happy …. Very cool!!…It’s fun to watch many of the old rtf’s being restored in Bob’s virtual museum….Very unique….Now the chance to see something that obscure fly, Nice….. I’m getting vibes somewhere between Myth Busters and Flight of the Phoenix lol…

Seriously, Watching with interest, Good luck Kim!!!
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Post  GallopingGhostler Sat Apr 23, 2022 12:34 pm

With the Gilbert''s extra weight, seems though the .11 Thunderhead, more than twice the displacement of an .049 moved it along acceptably. Also to help it along, the larger wing area helped, too.

My impressions are that with a CL aircraft of 150 sq. in. wing area such as the 1952 Hal DeBolt 26" All American Jr. would be about right for the .11. It's plans list the earlier Duromatic McCoy "9", OK Cub .074 and .099. This is versus the standard, smaller .049 kits with 120 or less wing area.

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=347

Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand 34710

Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand 34711
Please note the similar aluminum landing gear arrangement to the Gilbert RTF.

It goes to show that considerable engineering went into the Gilbert aircraft and engine, to provide successful repeated flights by the neophyte, given the limited cost effective technologies of the day. However, Gilbert's train and scientific toy marketing venue was not enough for it to gain a market hold over the already heavily established Cox and Wen Mac flying model aircraft market.

Later, Leroy Cox would suffer a similar fate with the slot car crash, which left him with huge unsold inventory similar to Gilbert. Sale of his company went to Leisure Dynamics.

However, made to fly they can. I gather that there is a fond love for the unloved by the OCD (old, cranky and dangerous  Very Happy ) crowd of Kim, Bob, self and more likely than not @Ian1954Smoking

Both Gilbert engine and aircraft are now history to be relived at CEF, along with other engines and craft. Popcorn Airplane Clapping I Love This Forum!
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Post  Kim Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:04 pm

rdw777 wrote:Only on CEF could something  like this happen Very Happy …. Very cool!!…It’s fun to watch many of the old rtf’s being restored in Bob’s virtual museum….Very unique….Now the chance to see something that obscure fly, Nice….. I’m getting vibes somewhere between Myth Busters and Flight of the Phoenix lol…

Seriously, Watching with interest, Good luck Kim!!!

THANK YOU!!!!!!

And, from GallopingGhoster:

"However, made to fly they can. I gather that there is a fond love for the unloved by the OCD (old, cranky and dangerous) crowd of Kim, Bob, self and more likely than not Ian1954.

Both Gilbert engine and aircraft are now history to be relived at CEF, along with other engines and craft."

TRUTH BROTHER!!!!!!!
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Post  Kim Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:41 am

Up early this morning to assorted lightning flashes and wind blasts across the hill, but still a good time to hoof it to the shop for some pre-dawn engine runs.

Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" was rubberbanded to the test board for its first time at making racket in the shop.

Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand 50_29

I decided to switch out the ancient plastic prop/spinner base for a grey 6-4 that was laying nearby.  Maybe seems a bit small for an .11, but the poor thing had fairly weak compression, so that's the way I went.

Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand 60_23

And...just to give myself a break and make the old Gilbert easier to access, I also removed the fancy cowling.

Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand 65_10

I started REAL low on the glowplug power, remembering (I think) some previous comments on the delicacy of the Gilberts' filaments.  Got some pretty good hits right off the bat, and after flooding and clearing it a few times, got the needle tuned in, with a good run...fully emptying the tank.  
(and yes... I forgot to pull the clip, but I really think it's gonna run fine when I do)

Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand 138_10
Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand 140_11

So, that's the deal at this point.  The little Gilbert seemed strong as it tugged on its restraints, and its smooth run makes me think this antique ought put in some flights appropriate for what it is.

A couple more runs to go, and then, to wait for a good weather day.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:40 am

Kim wrote:I decided to switch out the ancient plastic prop/spinner base for a grey 6-4 that was laying nearby.  Maybe seems a bit small for an .11, but the poor thing had fairly weak compression, so that's the way I went. [...]

Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand 140_11

So, that's the deal at this point.  The little Gilbert seemed strong as it tugged on its restraints, and its smooth run makes me think this antique ought put in some flights appropriate for what it is. A couple more runs to go, and then, to wait for a good weather day.

You're nearer sea level, so 6x4 prop has strong pull. Having lived at higher elevations above 4,000 feet for the past 30 years give or take, found going to a larger diameter netted better results than at sea level. (6x3 versus 5.25x4 netted same result at seal level, but higher up, 6,500 ft., the 6x3 pulled stronger.) At my elevation would have probably shot for a 7x3, an 33% increase in spinning disk area.

Although I have 2 Gilbert .11's and a reasonably new tach but with my bad back, I'm an arm chair general. Computer Issues Old Bugger

(I know, excuses, excuses, excuses. Embarassed ) Popcorn lol!
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:25 am

IT LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Kim. I had my doubts.

Previous owner made removing that cowling easy, Batman style - Smash - bang - zoom. Only he lost the original #2 self-tappers and replaced them with #4's.

It's great to see something happening with the thing. Relieved also to see my replacement fuel pickup line working, original was a crumbling mass.

Bob
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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:59 am

rsv1cox wrote:Previous owner made removing that cowling easy, Batman style - Smash - bang - zoom.  Only he lost the original #2 self-tappers and replaced them with #4's.
Yes, I have seen some interesting things done by people who thought they had the smarts, which gives a lot of food for humor on "Been There Done That" photo and videos posted on the 'net. Rolling Eyes Laughing

For the sake of economy, plastics used and plastics in general are not a good medium for repeated screw removal and insertion. In radios and electronics I have repaired, simply removing those specially threaded screws would sometimes take a portion of the plastic with them, requiring me to carefully re-drill over slightly (to prevent plastic post from splitting) then go to an oversized screw. Otherwise, the screw simply does not get a good bite and cannot be torqued down.

This is where a metric screw can be advantageous, because they can be an in-between size so you don't have to go to a drastic size larger (ANSI / SAE #2 to #4, where say a #3 sheet metal or #3 "Plastite" is not available. Metric can be between say #2 to #3.).

Of course in a radio chassis, no one sees the internals, so "what they don't know won't hurt them." Wink If in a car plastic panel, I use a trim washer if exposed, sometimes the truss head sheet metal screws are "clean enough" that it appears to be "reasonable factory" (to the unknowing) where a plastic post or clam retainer broke, so I can avert buying an expensive replacement. Eyebrows

I think us OCD seniors (old, cranky, dangerous Laughing ) all think alike. Thumbs Up Old Bugger lol!
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:28 pm

You know, when reassembling something you back off the screw a bit until you feel the threads drop into place.  Even more important when reassembling plastic.  You do not want to cut another set of threads into plastic.  Hogs them out.  It's a learned touch experienced over time.  

Rene's suggestion of heating the screw head with a soldering iron/gun is valuable on castor locked engine mounting screws to disassemble.  I have never found it necessary on fuselage body screws and would hesitate to try it. I put a drop of oil on the head and find the proper philips/slot head screwdriver to back them out.

Embedded body screws are the worst.  Use a flashlight to determine the the screw type, hold the body firmly with one hand against pressure and hope.  Many of the ones I work on haven't been moved in 30/40 years.

Not a pretty sight.

Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand P1013013

Edit: Just opened up a moment ago. More fun.

I like it when things are properly packed.

Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand Dscn1835
Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand Dscn1836

Eagerly awaiting Kim's Gilbert flight results. Hopes not high, a wingover may be pushing it. Good luck Kim!!!!


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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:16 pm

rsv1cox wrote:You know, when reassembling something you back off the screw a bit until you feel the threads drop into place.  Even more important when reassembling plastic.  You do not want to cut another set of threads into plastic.  Hogs them out.  It's a learned touch experienced over time.
Bob, you are speaking from experience and yes, I have made the same personal observations, too. One needs to make sure they retrace the re-inserted screw to follow the same path it was originally in to minimize wear and tear. If it seems to take more force to get it to align, back off a touch until screw "feels the dimple", retrain the screwdriver straight and try again. When it drops in with little effort, then we are off to a good set again.

rsv1cox wrote:Embedded body screws are the worst.  Use a flashlight to determine the the screw type, hold the body firmly with one hand against pressure and hope.  Many of the ones I work on haven't been moved in 30/40 years.
It like with old radio, computer and car panel screws. In spite of best efforts, sometimes the inevitable happens where post breaks, splits, or body / shell / panel hole breaks, no matter the lube, right screw/nut driver tip, etc., or it was prebroke through age or use. And, as you indicate, sometimes, someone before in their jing-ham wisdom, already pre-broke it for you in attempting repairs.

rsv1cox wrote:Not a pretty sight.

Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand P1013013

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I know that this is not the final result. Smoking
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Post  Kim Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:28 pm

I put Bob's extra .11 on a stand, and used a MA 7x4 prop I had handy.  Like its sibling, it took me a while to get the balance right with the needle setting, but it actually ran quite steady once I got there.

I think the 7x4 is a bit much for it though, with it mostly hovering around 8K, and may pull the 6x4 from his Skyflash if I do another run.

Weird & Wonderful Little Castor Slingers!


Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand 50_30

Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand 55_10

Bob's Gilbert "Skyflash" Bob's Extra .11 Runs on a Test Stand 60_24
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Post  rsv1cox Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:47 pm

Thanks Kim, It's a joy for me to see those running. Did you use the starters, did they work or just hand flipped?
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Post  Kim Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:31 pm

rsv1cox wrote:Thanks Kim, It's a joy for me to see those running.  Did you use the starters, did they work or just hand flipped?  

Both starters worked...I want to set up a camera/tripod to get video of them being used. Though, the one on this engine would take a spell of missing its catch during the original attempts...still started with regular flipping.
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