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Post  Woody Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:12 pm

Today was the day.
Nice sun shine and no wind at all.
Took her up for the maiden....steered left too much but elevation okay.
Put some right trim in and perfect.
Flew to just above tree height and engine cut.
This happened three times.
So there might be a problem with not enough fuel OR I have my castor mix incorrect.
I mixed the fuel according to the calculator.
It is 30% nitro 15% synth and 5% castor.
Is the castor too little?
It is the only reason I can think why it cuts out.
I wish the fuel tank was see through so that I can prove that one out of the way.
Ant ideas are welcome.
As for the flying characteristics of this little plane, it is an absolute beauty and flies like a bird.
I could get a wonderful flat glide out of her and to then cream her in on the landing.
She is deffo a keeper!
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Post  Woody Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:14 pm

Sorry.
This was supposed to go under my Q Tee build thread.
Please adjust if you can administrators.
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Post  Kim Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:57 pm

GOOD DEAL!!!!
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Post  getback Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:01 am

Hey Woody , do you know if the fuel hose is set to bottom of the tank so it can draw all the fuel out . Or could bee leaning out and cutting off . Good to hear your Maidan was successful RC Plane
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Post  rsv1cox Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:50 am

getback wrote:Hey Woody , do you know if the fuel hose is set to bottom of the tank so it can draw all the fuel out . Or could bee leaning out and cutting off .  Good to hear your Maidan was successful RC Plane

Good point Eric, I went back and looked at Woody's tank. Seems the pickup is low enough but long low tank rectangular tank leaves alot of unused fuel with no low end for the pickup to angle into. Ought to be alright though.

Maiden flight Woody_10
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Post  Woody Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:44 am

Well yes the fuel pick up is at the bottom of the tank.
I have revamped the tank to make it uniflow and the engine ran much better only.....
It cannot stay at full scream unless I continually ritchen the needle valve.
I went for another fly today and got the engine running nice but a little bit rich hoping it would lean out with air flow in flight.
It was a struggle and she reluctantly climbed and sputtered.
It was a hard deal as she flew over the trees ...and then....encapsulated herself in a tree!!!!
Its times like this that we feel absolutley stupid.
So I am having a wine ( or three) wondering if I have lost it or somehow I can get it back.
Oh God of treed planes help!...
Stop press...
My kids ( 31 and 52) have come to the rescue.
We all went out together to see if we could recue it.
My son said " I can throw this javelin at it Dad but it might come down punctured!!!
In the mean time, daughter had another idea and drove off to buy some string and a weight.
Having arrived at the scene the said string with weight attached was hauled over just the right branch and then the tree with offending branches was shaken vigourously.
The plane changed places.
We thought.." Ah great"
And then..
." Oh no!!"
After five minutes of battling with the tree, Q Tee decided to come down to Daddy.
And she did!!!!
WITHOUT A MARK, PUNCTURE, BALSA BREAK OR SCRATCH!!!?!
If there is anything that resembles a miracle....
That was it.
I am so over joyed to have my Q Tee back.
It is one plane that I really like and will be sad to lose.
Spiritually Q Tee was being rather naughty by doing that..
Clearly I was totally blameless for not checking the engine properly to optimum revs and the fact that it did not perform is nothing to do with me!!!!!
I am so grateful to have two growed up kids that answer to Dad's every dissapointment.
Life is just heaven sometimes.
My kids reactions were more important than losing Q Tee.
I am overjoyed to have Q Tee back but we are not on speaking terms today as that was a really mean trick!!
woody.
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Post  balogh Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:48 am

Congrats for the maiden flight, and for the lucky recovery of the Q Tee from the treetop, Woody.

(Why  not just call it Q-Tree in future?  Smile )

Been there, seen that, done that...but with much less success: when one of my planes was mistakenly flown over a line of trees just to see it disappear and land in a inaccessible bushy area behind...never recovered, but then I learnt my lesson, and will avoid flying over the line of trees as much as I can. (I fly in rough, desolate lands where I am not seen and I possibly do not disturb others...no dedicated flying field in my direct neighborhood)

I reiterate that the best fuel tank in my experience is made of a simple party balloon with a stopper in its mouth, only to pass 2 fuel lines through it: a filler, and a supply line, just like in my Lil Roughneck, see its disemboweled photo below

Will make heavy clunks unnecessary for stunt flying, will not allow the fuel to foam due to engine vibration, and will not need a vent line either: it will simply collapse by itself as the fuel is being consumed. Light and totally reliable, and will take the shape of any tank compartment in the nose of the plane:

Maiden flight Roughn10
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Post  rdw777 Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:35 am

Hi Woody, Congratulations on your maiden flight! And glad you got it back from the tree!!…

I suggest to bench run that engine until it will hold a good setting for a full tank without touching the needle…,Should begin a little rich and peak later in the run…. Your homemade tank is beautiful… If you bench run put that tank in the same relative position as it was on the plane…, If you suspect problems with fuel feed try a different tank or a balloon as suggested… On any tank the fuel line needs to be as short as possible to help with draw..,Feed line from tank centered up in line with engine is helpful too…

What prop are you using?… 6-3 is ideal for that engine to let it spin up and make good thrust …. Got plenty of nitro in your fuel?
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Post  rsv1cox Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:42 am

In the mean time, daughter had another idea

Ah, the gentle sex is also the smarter sex.

Welcome to the association of model airplane tree climbers.
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Post  Woody Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:35 pm

Thanks all for the inputs.
I double checked my fuel mix today and YEP....I got it wrong.
Not enough Nitro and not nearly enough castor which would explain why it only runs peak revs for a few seconds and then slows down.
I will take Q Tee fuselage to the flying club today and run the engine up again.
Hopefully there will be an improvement.
I am intrigued with the balloon tanks and may give it a try but something tells me that these engines " Should" run okay with either an external tank or the fitted radial tanks.
There is someone on this forum flying a micro speedster with a Pee Wee I think and a fitted radial tank.
This Thing flies like a bat out of hell without any fuel problems.
Again, Kim is flying his Q Tee famously with just an ordinary external tank and it flies beautifully like so.
I am not dismissing balloon tanks but need to weigh up the pros and cons and to fully understand how they work.
How do we test to see if the reed is operating properly?
Woody.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:04 pm

Woody wrote:I am not dismissing balloon tanks but need to weigh up the pros and cons and to fully understand how they work.
There are at least 2 types of balloon tanks. One is a pressurized tank mainly for speed engines. Some used a section of surgical tubing, bloats when fuel is forced in. Venturi doesn't need to provide line suction and is usually oversized to provide the greatest quantity of air-fuel mixture for greater power.

Other mostly used on half-A's is a standard inflatable round party balloon with a fuel line rubber banded around the neck, which once air is removed, acts like an unpressurized bladder tank. It is only fueled until balloon is full, no pressure.

Engine naturally aspirated suction by venturi bleeds the tank until near empty and balloon is near deflated.
Woody wrote:How do we test to see if the reed is operating properly?
I usually use a simple test. I put the venturi to my mouth and blow. Air should pass. Then I suck, it should seal completely with no air passing.
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Post  andrew Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:28 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:
Woody wrote:How do we test to see if the reed is operating properly?
I usually use a simple test. I put the venturi to my mouth and blow. Air should pass. Then I suck, it should seal completely with no air passing.

That's exactly what I do, too.

If I recall, you're running a Sure Start engine, which makes it just a bit more difficult.  

On this engine, I think the simplest approach will be to remove the backplate and blow/suck on the reed housing itself.  You should be able to draw in air, but not blow air back through the backplate if the reed is seating correctly.  On occasion, I've had a small piece of trash lodge under the reed and allow air to leak.  You can also remove the reed retainer and reed and blow directly into the venturi tube.  If you block the screened air inlet on the backside, this may blow out any trash stuck in or around the needle seat.

For tanked engines, George's technique works.

Maiden flight Sure_s10

While you have the engine removed, you may also want to remove the needle valve, then blow into the fuel line -- if there is a small amount trash, you may be able to blow it out.  I keep several sizes of copper magnet wire on hand and will run a piece into the fuel inlet nipple and out the top of the needle valve hole.  Never use anything harder than soft copper wire.  It takes the smallest pieces of junk to make these engines aggravating.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:30 am

andrew wrote:For tanked engines, George's technique works.
Also works for the postage stamp engines. Wink

Maiden flight Cox_0438

I guess it just depends on how well your lips are able to seal against the venturi. Haven't tried it with the Sure Starts yet, but that is because I have yet to use them on a model, although I have several.

If the choke tube is not tightly fitted against the venturi, one can get creative by removing the choke tube and use a short section of aquarium tubing / auto vacuum or small fuel line. Very Happy Anything that temporarily seals over the venturi end so suction or blowing works (like with a straw). Laughing

I've gotten a mouthful of gas before, playing with lawnmower, car and motorcycle fuel systems. tongue Blowing and suction helps in checking float needle valve for closure at proper float level, clearing jets, and etc.
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Post  Woody Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:14 am

Hi guys thanks for the heads up on balloon tanks and checking reeds. I have already done the suck/ blow test but was wondering if anything more sophisticated was needed. So no to that one and that makes life easier.
I was just wondering if the reed has to open a certain thousandsths of an inch but we don 't have to test that.
I understand that when the piston is on the up stroke the crank case pressure sucks in the fuel and when on the down stroke the pressure close the valve...is this correct?
Anyway...
.I have got her screaming now!!! Hurray!!!
It was incorrect fuel mixing.
Not enough nitro and not enough castor.
I must have been drunk doing the first mix.
I have just joined a model flying club today so will be flying Q Tee away from trees.
That was two treed planes within a short space of time so I would be stupid to try a third time.
I will report back how the day went.
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Post  rdw777 Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:33 am

That’s great Woody! If you have it screaming I’d say reed is working OK….. Get some of your mates at the flying site to take a photo our two…. Going Luck!
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Post  andrew Sat Jun 18, 2022 9:19 am

GallopingGhostler wrote:

..........I guess it just depends on how well your lips are able to seal against the venturi........  

I'll confess that I've not been very successful in getting a good seal -- but, that's on me, not on the technique.

GallopingGhostler wrote:
............If the choke tube is not tightly fitted against the venturi, one can get creative by removing the choke tube and use a short section of aquarium tubing / auto vacuum or small fuel line. Very Happy ...............

I had started a post with a similar approach, but tossed it in favor of my usual KISS method (the simple and stupid parts usually apply to my mechanizations).

Either way, it sounds like Woody got his problem straightened out and is ready for another flight.
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Post  Woody Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:39 pm

rdw777 wrote:That’s great Woody! If you have it screaming I’d say reed is working OK….. Get some of your mates at the flying site to take a photo our two…. Going Luck!

Okay I will try and do some close passes so someone can take a photo.
I am brand new into the club so have to prove I can fly first.
After treeing it I am not so sure so I need to get my positive hat on.
I am a bit nervous being under scrutiny and the older we get the more we don't like having to prove our selves. But safety is safety and there is some big stuff whizzing around.
Like $20,000 worth of huge jet plane ( and he has five of them).
When I showed them Q Tee with the Cox 049 they asked " whats that?".
So now I am out to show them " the other side" ha ha ha.
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Post  Woody Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:24 am

Okay..so realistically it has had its maiden so I will wrap the thread up now and let it die with what happened today at my new model rc flying club.
First off I need to get my " bronze wings" to prove I can fly.
Sorry ...unable to get pics of the flight but this is how it went.....
Went to the flying arena and started up the Q Tee first flick.
" Blimey " some one said..." Thats a good starter".
So I smiled and said nothing.
There was a lot of talk about Cox engines, how tiny they are and some said the QTee was underpowered.
They were quite taken aback that such an Alien dared to enter their club with such a humble but yet simple rig.
Anyway a good stiff launch and up she went screaming.
It was quite breezy and some said too breezy.
But I have flown in strong winds before.
As Q Tee was pushed back by the wind then a bit of down elevator to correct.
This process went on ad infinitum keeping it straight ahead to gain as much height as possible.
Q Tee got to such a height as to be tiny by which time the engine cut.
So It was kept ahead of me flying in wide circles and riding the thermals when she could.
I kept the elevation very near to stalling point to keep her up there.
There were times where she stood still.
I was mighty impressed.
So then very slowly she decended and was now ready for landing after a very long glide.
" Dead stick landing" was announced loud and clear to other members.
Then she just creamed in not too far away from me.
One of the instructors said " Pete...you can fly"
Which was not only a compliment but for me and importantly I will get my bronze wings so can be trusted to fly alone.
The second flight was similar.
I have no trouble with the engine now.
My tiny fuel bottle fits in my pocket and fuel lasts forever.
The guys were aghast as they are used to big heavy models with electric starters and batteries, fuel pumps, battery voltage indicators, charging units blah blah blah...and here is old woody with a tiny plane, tiny engine, a laughable fuel bottle in the pocket and a starter battery.
Thats it.
Another guy who is an accomplished aerobatic flyer said " That was just so much fun to watch".
And that is exactly the point.
A lot of fun.
Woody.
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Post  Kim Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:29 am

Way to go Pete!!!
Congrats!!!
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Post  getback Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:48 am

Fun Fun Fun! Way to go to the field and impress to the big boys that it don't take $$$$$ To have a Good time ! RC Plane Small Cox Logo Very Happy
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Post  GallopingGhostler Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:34 am

Really good show, Woody, you showed them that one could fly on a thimble of fuel and have a blast without mortgaging farm. I'm sure you'll bring more to the field in times future for more fun times and keep them entertained with the most for the least. Thumbs Up

May be @Admin could point the way to a graphic of the old Cox wings so you can repro them Down Under and show you earned your wings! Beer Cheers Beers Clapping cheers Airplane

(Sorry, there's a kid in all of us") lol!
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Post  rdw777 Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:03 am

Way to go Woody!!….Love the description of the experience and the flights…. You may have some of those high dollar flyers wondering now what modeling is about…. Very nice feeling to have something you built take to the skies…..Don’t let the thread die away to quick…. Another flight or two would be great…

Robert
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Post  andrew Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:56 am

Good on you, Woody. Among all those big engine, big model and big dollar planes, you certainly held up the banner for the little plane guys. Congrats on getting your bronze wings.
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Post  Woody Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:13 pm

Thanks for the thumbs up.
It takes all kinds to make a world in modelling and flying and each to their own.
If I had an excess of funds then I too would probs have a fleet of large jets and a 1/4 scale Tiger Moth.
But I don't have them nor the space to store them so thats why I chose small models although I do have a few 2metre and 3 metre powered gliders.
It gets to be fun when we can still build and fly our old timer style models and is a reminder that we ( the old school) are still here.
I like to promote building yer own not to be elitest but to keep up the demand for balsa, coverings etc etc so that we can all be supplied with what we need.
What the big boys do with their pattern ships I could never do but it is great fun to sit down and watch them throw these things about the sky with manouevres undreamed of.
I am building a Bugaboo at the moment and it will be powered by a 1cc ED Bee ( 1951) Diesel.
It is pleasantly ugly and so vintage looking.
Wait till they see that!
No glow plug, clip or battery.
Can of diesel in the pocket, rag and radio. Thats it.
That will surely get a " What the Heck!!!!"

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Post  GallopingGhostler Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:14 pm

Woody on June 16, 2022 wrote:I have revamped the tank to make it uniflow and the engine ran much better only..... It cannot stay at full scream unless I continually ritchen the needle valve. I went for another fly today and got the engine running nice but a little bit rich hoping it would lean out with air flow in flight. It was a struggle and she reluctantly climbed and sputtered.
Understand. I tried to make my 3 oz. Hayes R/C clunk tank into a Uniflow on my 42" Ringmaster with Testor's McCoy .35 Red Head, but never could get it to work right. Finally just went with standard flow venturi suction with normal venting, (have no muffler so no muffler pressure), flew fine to the end. There's some tricks and trades about Uniflow that I still have to learn, but what the hay, without it flew fine all the way to the end. If it works, don't fix it and thus live fine with it.

My R/C's, use same normal setup, muffler pressure too if available. I tweak the carb a touch rich, so it would lean out to full power in flight.

Woody wrote:Thanks for the thumbs up. It takes all kinds to make a world in modelling and flying and each to their own. If I had an excess of funds then I too would probs have a fleet of large jets and a 1/4 scale Tiger Moth. But I don't have them nor the space to store them so thats why I chose small models although I do have a few 2metre and 3 metre powered gliders.
Yes, understand exactly. When I was a young man, I showed up at a couple R/C clubs with my .049 powered half-A single and two channel aircraft, and got chased away. They were flying 4 channel .40 plus powered full house aircraft, and that was their club standard to even being considered a candidate for membership. Shocked  

Thus, when it was still permitted prior to the woke-ism that entered our government services at parks over the past 20 years that ban model aircraft flying, I'd fly at military bases and national parks, some municipally owned model plane parks. I'd fly until the batteries ran dead or out of fuel. An exception was the R/C club in North Little Rock, Arkansas. They flew on a wide open field, a fuel storage easement area west of Little Rock off I-40. They were the friendliest bunch around back in 1978 and 1983.

Woody wrote:It gets to be fun when we can still build and fly our old timer style models and is a reminder that we ( the old school) are still here. I like to promote building yer own not to be elitist but to keep up the demand for balsa, coverings etc etc so that we can all be supplied with what we need.
Agree wholeheartedly. I seriously doubt any of us are truly "elitists", we all have different likes for aircraft, and thus as such have much to share to the enjoyment of others here.

Woody wrote:What the big boys do with their pattern ships I could never do but it is great fun to sit down and watch them throw these things about the sky with manouevres undreamed of.
I feel the same way. I appreciate what they can do. I just don't feel a need to compete with them, to have fun.

Woody wrote:I am building a Bugaboo at the moment and it will be powered by a 1cc ED Bee ( 1951) Diesel. It is pleasantly ugly and so vintage looking. Wait till they see that! No glow plug, clip or battery. Can of diesel in the pocket, rag and radio. Thats it. That will surely get a " What the Heck!!!!"
This Buggaboo? Very Happy

Outerzone: oz714 - 44in Bugaboo by Joost Bakker 1992

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