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Help! Model rockets

Post  fredvon4 Thu Nov 03, 2022 11:52 am

Back story: 1958 to 1960 ( 3 to 5 yeas old) my Dad was a range safety officer training US Army soldiers to acquire a target, prep, and fire, a Nike Hercules Missile at a airborne target. Once "qualified" the crew was reassigned to LA, Seattle, Chicago and about 35 other critical defense locations

As a little kid I got to go with Dad on Family Day and observe a WAC Corporal or Nike Ajax launch including close experience with the ARCATS (Army Remote Controlled Ariel Target System)

Below are some photos from that era

Model rockets Image_16
Model rockets Image_14
Model rockets Image_15

My question to my Modeling CEFers, because a really do not want to be a new member to the various rocketry forums..( I follow and contribute to to many forums right now)

I have about 12 unbuilt Model rockets I never intend to fly...I envision some variant of a MISSILE PARK museum (diorama) similar to the one on White Sands I visited often as a Test Officer during the early 2000s

I think all my models for this should be color accurate (as I remember) so White (easy to source) and Gloss OD Green...despite my Google Foo I am at a loss for a glossy OD green spray paint....I may have to settle for semi gloss or flat and over coat with gloss clear

So dear CEFers...your thoughts and ideas?
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Help! Gloss Army Green Paint

Post  duaneh Thu Nov 03, 2022 1:11 pm

Fred, not a problem. RustOleum has gloss Army Green. I got this at the local Menard's.
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Help! Re: Model rockets

Post  Marleysky Thu Nov 03, 2022 1:34 pm

Model rockets 4acf8f10
Yeah, just a couple more web-sites to add to the list!! Those rocket-men seem to be hung up on Fin Fillets, smooth grooves and launch pins. For something you build and launch never to be seen again, they spend a lot on finishing their model(s) to look scale realistic and historically accurate! Right behind those Railroad Model builders!  

Are your models the type that are ment to be launched? IE: Estes,  Centuri, Apogee?  Not the plastic stationary AMT/Revell models.  Some older Estes model kits are (like Cox) very desirable and command big bucks for NIP examples.

If you're gonna do a diorama the most popular and multicolored paints are Tamiya:
https://www.megahobby.com/products/complete-tamiya-paint-deal-106-bottles-every-color.html

I have a couple, a few, a bunch, ok a boxfull (or two ) of Rockets accumulated  over the years. Good intentions of launching them into the wild blue yonder. Probably end up doing it on the Fourth of July to avoid the hassle of getting permission from FTC,FCC AFT, ATC or ...whomever is claiming the last 400ft of airspace!!

This is Near me 45min drive:


Last edited by Marleysky on Thu Nov 03, 2022 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Pic added)
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Help! Re: Model rockets

Post  Levent Suberk Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:15 pm

Nike Hercules was also used in Turkish Army at the time Pumpkin Leaves Fireworks
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Help! Re: Model rockets

Post  fredvon4 Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:20 pm

Levent
During my second tour to Germany in Field Artillery (first was as a simple cannoneer in Bamberg early 75 to late 77) I had been trained on Nuclear munitions assembly, firing, guarding, and emergency destruction. Eventfully due to my skills and rank I was on a team in USAREUR for Nuke munitions INSPECTION. At the time 1979~1981 NATO was fairly diverse in where we stored the nuclear warheads for both tubed and rocket artillery. Because I do not know what is or is not still a secret I can not say where all I was dispatched to do annual inspections of the various components. My understanding at the time was Turkey was a good NATO anti Soviet member (not sure that is true today) but none the less I got dispatched twice to Turkey for these very secure locations to inspect the active components and over see the replacement and destruction of degraded items need to make loudenboomers. Also my understanding, at the time, Turkey owned the installations for tubed and rocket artillery ---BUT if ever a Nuke mission--- it would be exclusively be manned and fired by a USA Army set of soldiers. Of course that is long ago history and I have virtually no clue today what Turkey, USA, and NATO have in common...Seems more and more Turkey is leaning a lot to supporting Russia... but truthfully I have no clue on the geopolitical situation that makes this a curious state of affairs

Perhaps in my other redneck zone post you could offer some insight on this topic...seriously I would appreciate your insight

Most of my models (all currently unbuilt) are from various suppliers mostly Estes...kind of POed that I could not get all the rockets in the exact same scale. All are Army 1950s~1960s with some variants of early Mercury orbital launch vehicles. WAC Corporal, Nike Hercules, Zeus, Honest John, and others.

Over the years and late in my Dept of the Army civilian Test Officer career, I got to visit and explore many museums: aircraft, rocketry, and NASA.

Back when my Dad was Range Officer at Red Canyon Range (very very northern part of White sands Missile range) He got jazzed by both the rockets and the aerial drone target (RCAT) So back in El Paseo when he was home we built rockets and a control line balsa airplane model (RingMaster) I was 4~5.5 YO at the time

Lost my Dad in 2005

Funny story depending on point of view...In 1959 after 6 years married to my Mom, Dad painted her name (Pat) on the nose of a WAC Corporal...I was there at launch as he shouted in the bunker "fly you bitch fly!"

Regarding the OD Green: My memory of the early 1950s rockets, and later as a soldier, before we went camouflaged paint schemes; All the vehicles were shiny gloss dark green ( we joked that OD meant Over Dirt) and weekly we were always touch up painting (after all rust removal) and then wiping down the entire vehicle (jeeps, 2.5 ton trucks etc...) with rags of diesel fuel to simulate a good wax job...(fracking dust magnets ensuring next week we would have to repeat the labor intensive non sense)



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Help! Re: Model rockets

Post  fredvon4 Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:35 pm

UNcool today but a memory: The very top photo is my 1st LT dad IN front of the, typical for the day, RADAR (Sofa Pillow) assy... down in the bunkers where all the enlisted soldiers treated me like a king kid cuz I was the boss's kid and cute in my od green fatigues my mom made...(wish I had a photo of 4. year old private Freddy) any way the Radar guys used to place a crate for me to stand on and look out of the bunker in a set of Periscope binoculars....a few times they came over and insisted I look at some distant ridge where a big eared Desert Jack Rabbit was munching on weeds... they then tuned the RADAR on the rabbit and POOF! the rabbit burst into flames and flopped over...animal lover now but at the time I thought the game was great fun...and to this day I do not like even thinking about being in front of a high powered RADAR antenna
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Help! Re: Model rockets

Post  Levent Suberk Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:28 pm

Interesting story.


Last edited by Levent Suberk on Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Help! Re: Model rockets

Post  Levent Suberk Thu Nov 03, 2022 5:14 pm

As duaneh mentioned that spray Rust-Oleum is very suitable paint for model rockets and applying is easy. I think that Satin Hunt Club Green is a good shade for Nike Hercules model.

https://www.claycountyfarmsupply.com/painters-touch-2x-ultra-cover-satin-hunt-club-gree.html
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Help! Re: Model rockets

Post  944_Jim Thu Nov 03, 2022 5:19 pm

Fred,
As long as the models are static, you could go flat OD,.and then clear gloss over the "base paint." That'll shine 'em up just fine! I do remember that particular shade of OD...matches the plastic canteens, pup tent pegs, STB decontamination spray bombs (CO2 cartridge-charged sprayers), and a pile of other things.

When I transitioned from AD to Nat Guard in '88, I fell into a maintenance unit that had a 1954 gasoline-powered 5-ton wrecker (M816 predecessor). This thing was built on a 2.5T frame complete with the axles/hubs with half as many lug nuts as the true 5T diesel drivetrain of the M816 wrecker. Same bed/crane/turntable and rear "remote" controls for the winch and crane, and it worked just as well as the diesel. I always chuckled during winter drills...floor the throttle pedal to unload the choke linkage, pull choke, release throttle, turn on ignition, and crank the thing up! Ease off the choke as the engine warmed.

Summer camps were hot as the exhaust manifold dumped into the exhaust system just under the cab passenger-side floorboard. I would line the floorboards with panels of inch thick styrofoam, with a circle cut into the foam for storing a big bucket of KFC chicken. It stayed hot all the way from metro Boston, MA to eaten-empty on the way to summer camp at Ft Drum, NY. Fourteen hour convoys each way were the norm for long summer camps!

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Help! Re: Model rockets

Post  fredvon4 Thu Nov 03, 2022 6:45 pm

great story and memory Jim....funny the way GIs used to adapt and over come..... many REFORGER road marches were bound to be long....I bet most tracked vehicles had C rat cans nestled on the engine for a hot meal at road stops....

I personally have dozens of stories where GI ingenuity? went horribly wrong....think gasoline fired immersion heaters, and the various heaters for tents....

I suspect I will eventually visit Hobby Lobby and Walmart for the white and Green paint ...I suspect my very large selection of Dope clear from Randolph will or should provide the gloss I remember


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Help! Re: Model rockets

Post  andrew Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:25 pm

Rustoleum Deep Forest Green comes as close to the Army Olive Drab as anything I have found. I've used it frequently when repainting ammo cans and other things that I carry in the woods. But, it is a flat finish and would have to be over-coated with a clear gloss.
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Help! Re: Model rockets

Post  fredvon4 Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:38 pm

thank you brother
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Help! Re: Model rockets

Post  944_Jim Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:14 pm

fredvon4 wrote:
think gasoline fired immersion heaters, and the various heaters for tents....
January 1985: PVT M. Arrives at Ft Irwin California for his 3.5.years at permanent party/duty station. Yes, the Mojave Desert gets cold at night in January. PVT M knows how to operate small engines, such as go-kart engines and Cox engines, Toyotas and VWs. But young PVT knows nothing of...

Herman Nelson heaters.

PVT M is sent to the field in the first week at Permanent Party, and the Herman Nelson heater runs out of fuel. Mess Sergeant says "Go fuel and fire up the heater before the mess tent gets cold."
PVT gets fuel cans, ensures all valves and switches are in the off position, and fills the main tank. PVT turns on the ignition switch, wraps the starter cord around the flywheel pulley, and gets the engine running. PVT asks how the gasoline-fed burner gets started, and Mess SGT says "remove the cat tail from the storage compartment on the side. Dip it in the main tank, and light it. Stick it in the hatch on the side of the furnace unit, and turn the fuel flow on for the burner." OK...hmmm. So while holding the cat tail lighter lit, and turning on the fuel valve, I quickly stuck the cat tail in the hatch.
POOOFwhump!

The fuel hit the floor of the burner as expected, but the furnace was till hot because of my swift actions. It vaporizes and immediately blasts 2 and 3 degree burns on my "ignition" hand.

Mess SGT failed to tell me to run the blower long enough to cool the furnace, which prevents vaporized fuel, and failed to stress to insert the cat tail BEFORE opening the fuel valve, which would have ignited the first spalsh of raw fuel. Of course, I failed to pay attention to detail in the order.
Guess who couldn't wash pots and pans for the rest of the mission. However, not is all lost! I get to cool my burned hand by peeling wet, cold potatoes for breakfast,.lunch and dinner for several days.
Lesson learned: Read the Data Plates...all.of them!

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Help! Re: Model rockets

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