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Post  rdw777 Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:53 pm

I’ve had this little plane a long time….. It’s been thru three different power plants and a couple of different flight packs… A few mishaps and still going…. Was thinking about going back to PeeWee .020…. But maybe this Cub?…. Would certainly be different…. Got the idea from Gallopingghoster…..Had to do a mock up just to see what it looks like…. The Cub only turns a Cox 6-3  10.2K rpm…. Not that much more powerful than the .020…. Weight’s not much penalty either….. Still thinking about it… What do you think George? Very Happy

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Post  GallopingGhostler Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:36 pm

I think it will work, Robert. It's been extra cold past could days, even inside the garage is cold, a damper on even using the electric heater I have. So, I'll have to delay show and tell, and any practical work on getting my LS flight ready. It is still setup to use the Ace R/C Adams Actuator for rudder only. I would change mine to rudder and elevator on small servo control, may be the Cox small red 6 oz. servos I bought a decade ago, still new in their packages. Elevator would be an easy do, a half inch wide 1/16" strip of balsa film covered with thread sewn hinges for frictionless action.

Per data in http://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/OK%20Cub%20.049B.html

The OK .049B (mine) Cub weighs 1.27 oz. I could not find weight without tank for the .049A (yours), but I imagine weights are similar. The Pee Wee weighs a half ounce less at 0.75 oz.

They based their RPM numbers on the old OK Glow Fuel. I could not find what its nitro content is, but back in July 1953 Aeromodeller (Sceptre Flight), H.R. Warring tested the OK Cub .14 on 20% nitro and 25% Castor oil. Author unstated (Peter Chinn?) in April 1953 Model Aircraft (Sceptre Flight) used 30% nitro and 25% Castor oil. There was about a 1,000 RPM increase with the greater nitro, which would be expected. So, since Herkimer was interested in having their Cubs shine best with their fuel, my guess is it was probably doped at 25%, safe enough for glow elements but powerful enough like the way most Cox users prefer. I base this on nito levels used by the 1953 British evaluators on their OK .14 tests. It was only this OK engine that the Sceptre Flight engine articles mention fuel nitro levels. This was prior to nitro becoming harder to obtain in Europe during later years.

OK Cub .049B RPM numbers using Herkimer Glow Fuel and engine data:
Author not stated, Air Trails Review wrote:Engine Data
Performance. Bare weight, less tank: 1.27 oz.
Propellers:
  • 6x3 wood, 11,900 rpm;
  • 5-1/2x4 plastic: 13,500 rpm;
  • 5-1/4x4 wood: 14,600 rpm;
  • 5x3 wood: 16,200 rpm.
Fuel level test: 8" at 13,500 rpm. Fuel: OK Cub.
Design data.
  • Displacement: .049 cu. in.
  • Class: 1/2A.
  • Stroke: .360 in.
  • Bore: .420 in.
  • Stroke bore ratio: .857.
  • Compression ratio head: 6.0.
  • Compression ratio base: 1.44.
  • Port area intake: .0234 sq. in.
  • Bypass: .0161 sq. in.
  • Exhaust: .0513 sq. in.
  • Ignition: OK glow plug.
Construction features.
  • Beam and radial mount.
  • Fuel tank that can be removed.
  • Propeller and spinner supplied.
  • Square rotary valve and carburetor port.
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Post  rdw777 Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:20 am

George, Gracias Compadre, I appreciate your thoughts and the engine data!!
No worries on being in a hurry… I’m not either, We’ll just enjoy the ride Very Happy …. Have a couple of other projects going too….
I get it about being too cold in the shop…. I carved out a corner in mine and added creature comforts so I am fortunate that regard….

So some problems to work thru;

Mount the “A” type engine…. I’m thinking to make an aluminum plate to mount the engine on from the back side with socket head cap screws, Then the plate is screwed to the corners of the firewall….. Would need to recess for the screw heads holding the engine… It’s had a lot things screwed to the front of it  lol! …. You can see the imprint of the PeeWee still.,.

Ace Littlest Stick 7692db10

Probably would get a balloon tank

Convert to tail dragger LG, Bungee mount (rubber band)…. I think yours is a TG and I like that look…. Please feel free to post a picture of your plane here …. I tried to re-find it but no luck…. Other stick owners too!!

Considering to silk the wing…. The Esaki tissue has held up amazingly well but was landing on hard pack or grass… Where I’m flying gas now is strictly hand launch and plop it down on pasture grass to land…. Would tear the tissue up pretty quick…. Plus I think the silk just goes with the vibe of the plane…

If you add an elevator to yours you’ll really enjoy it…. It
helps them punch a breeze and do some really crazy aerial didoes but very stable as soon as the stick is released….

Your comments about the engine being torker’s may make them a good candidate for something like this …. Not super fast but have a strong climb ….We’ll see where it goes…

Robert
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Post  GallopingGhostler Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:30 am

You're welcome, Robert. Adrian Duncan's Model Aero Engines also has a good article on his assessment of the OK Cubs.

https://adriansmodelaeroengines.com/catalog/main.php?cat_id=225

Ace Littlest Stick Aok-0910
Dec. 1952 Model Aircraft OK Cub .049 Power Curve courtesy of Adrian's.

It shows 0.044 BHP at 12,800 RPM. According to

http://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/Cox%20Pee%20Wee%20020%20%282%29.html

Peter Chinn in Dec. 1976 Aeromodeller rated the Cox .020 Pee Wee at 0.035 BHP at 18,500 RPM on 25% nitro 25% Castor oil fuel. (Basically SIG Champion 25, etc.) The .049 Babe Bee OTOH was rated at .055 BHP at 13,000 RPM on 15% nitro by H.R. Warring's May 1961 Aeromodeller test.

So, the .049 OK Cub is closer to Pee Wee power than the Babe Bee. Also of interest, Peter Chinn's Pee Wee weight of 0.86 oz. with starter spring I can believe. Cox literature of then listed it at 0.75 oz., which may be without the spring and the thinner earlier steel cylinder. That then reduces the difference in increased weight at 0.41 oz. more with the OK Cub .049B (or A).

Given that with the OK's odd needle arrangement that makes it nearly impossible to put a section of fuel hose covering the needle's thread to reduce air siphonage leakage, I had difficulty peaking out the engine. So, it may very well perform at Pee Wee level power. Doh! My Littlest Stick from this March 15, 2015 post:

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t8043-020-peewee#101752
Ace Littlest Stick Ace_rc10

Ken Cook I think may have used an OK .049 on one of his F/F 24" Joe Wagner designed all balsa Dakota Bipe.
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Post  rdw777 Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:49 pm

Good assessment on power in relation to the PeeWee George, I think you’re spot on…. Mine is probably less than the published tests due to the restricter tube in the venturi…., But that may even be a good thing in this application…..

I weighed the Cub (without tank) - 39.7 g - 1.40 oz
And a PeeWee (step cyl with start spring) 25.3 g - .892 oz

The Cub is 14.4 grams heavier, Not a deal breaker though….To put it in perspective, US nickels weigh right at 5 g so about three of those more….The short nose helps too…. I put a 2S 300 mah Lipo near the rear of its compartment and still balances on the spar OK…. When I made it electric I installed a “floor” between the bulkheads in the radio compartment and battery access is from a hatch underneath….Gives lots of wiggle room to adjust balance point plus keep the CG low in its belly…. Enhances stability….The difference in overall weight from electric power back to gas looks like it will be close to the same….. I could just leave it the same but I’m ready for it to be oily and make noise again  lol!

Oh, Thanks for the photo…. It’s a good looker Thumbs Up
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Post  rdw777 Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:52 am

Here’s another one that may be of interest George, You’re the only other person in the world I’ve heard mention Hobby Shack’s “Real Thing”….I thought it would be a good contemporary for the Ace LS….Started this one a couple of years ago but has been on back burner since….. Been distracted fiddling with the little engines….Was originally going to be electric but now I’m thinking .020…. It’s scaled to 30”….Still on hold for a while though….

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Post  GallopingGhostler Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:12 pm

Nilly Willy's quarter-A kit? Got original kit in its unbuilt glory. Engine possibilities include Sanye AP .09 R/C with Saito 4C pipe & muffler,  Very Happy Enya .15-III TV.

Told Vintage R/C Society (VRCS) was thinking of my Enya .19-VI TV for it.  Devil Little did they know I can readily swap out the .15 for the .19, same bolt pattern. Was told overkill for such a lovely aircraft. But, I live at 4,300 feet elevation, get roughly a 12% power loss.

Then it could do loops from horizontal. But I like your idea of the Littlest Stick exchangeable engine mount plates.

Am working on my 1959 Berkeley Impulse. Settling for the odd Cox .074 Queen Bee as it is heavier and more suitable for its short fuselage nose.

Got a dozen 60 year vintage 7x2 Grish Plastikote wood props that would be right prop for the Queen, get the wind past its bulky fuselage. (Was designed for tube radios and escapements of the day.)
Horsing Around Stereo
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Post  rdw777 Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:41 pm

Hi George, No, Being the Neanderthal that I am I scaled it up from a 8-1/2 x 11 copy and made few changes too…. I used to draw up the remodels at the schools I worked for in past and like drawing a little….

I remember the contests that used to have for these in one of the mags (RCM maybe?)…. All sorts of covering schemes, bipes, Twins, and all manner of creativity…. Was kind of fun to see what people came up with…. It’s really kind of a trainer in disguise…. I drew in an extra bay in each wing thinking motor glider sort of…I made the rear of the fuse open and had planned to cover the model  with tissue just to see all the open structure light up in the sun…

Cool you have an original kit!! I’m sure it’s pretty rare now ….. Versatility on the engines sounds good too…. Might be the difference between mild or wild!!! I bet it’s naturally very docile but would be fun to have the extra HP for those “from level “ urges…. Yes, the metal plate for the Cub on the LS,  sort of the same thought…. If it gets balky and the field, Four screws out and four screws back for a PeeWee… Reset balance and good to go!
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Post  HalfaDave Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:30 am

Hi rdw77,

On your lil Stick, I noticed a dual wire landing skid rig.
Does it work good? I was thinking of radiusing (radiiing?) them back to promote a skidding effect...
Fields here are groomed for 3in+ wheels.
Gotta like a Stick !
Done the .25 size and want to build a 250g one...
Dave
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Post  rdw777 Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:04 pm

Hi Dave, My Ace LS has been both tail dragger and trike….

Ace Littlest Stick Eb3e6d10
Ace Littlest Stick Ba8bf410

On my last job I traveled a good bit and I took the LS with me quite a few times….
I made up a travel box for it that had everything it needed….. Also cut down the TD landing gear so it would fit in the box…Some of the old free flight designs had sort of a cat’s whisker skid so I just mimicked that…. Simple but effective….

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Post  rdw777 Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:19 pm

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Post  HalfaDave Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:59 pm

Hi rdw777,

Thanks for the info, I'll try no wheels and just wire.
I will call it a 'Catfish Whisker' Landing gear. With suitable wire.
Semi-retracts, (no need for wheels) option.
I also built a RealThing from drafted up RCM mag plans....
I'll have a break,
And tell that story, after a beer...
Dave

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Post  GallopingGhostler Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:43 pm

rdw777 wrote:Ace Littlest Stick 10fde010
In the past, I bought 2 from Ace R/C, same ad you show, Robert for $3.95 each. The current one I have is one, and another that I lost over the swamp adjacent to the modeling field in 1980, windward side of the Pali Mountain near Kailua, Oahu, Hawaii.

That one, I used a Mattel single channel pulse system. I forgot who was selling then, may be AHC for only $19.95 per set by mail order. I bought two. I'd replace the antenna whip with a wire antenna and replaced the dry receiver battery box with nicads. I lost both airplanes guided by Mattel.

The other Mattel was the guidance for one of my most intense but beautiful builds, the Goldberg Half-A Skylane. It was powered by a Golden Bee. Lost it from my own personal foolishness, just to get in one more flight before an approaching thunderhead brought a very strong updraft. Tried to spiral it down. It continued upward until it was out of sight and over the horizon. Sad

(Just like the Wizard of Oz, it probably landed in Kansas, spiraling away just like Dorothy in her parent's house until it landed on top the Wicked Witch of the East. I didn't have any ruby red slippers to bring it back home like @modelbuilder49 did.) Laughing

modelbuilder49 on Nov. 3, 2020 wrote:Howdy y'all!  Well, after reading the post by Ken, I felt like a fish on a hook ... I was hooked and just had to see if I could build one.  Thanks to Outer Zone, I was able to download a plan, make my templates and begin cutting wood and "Voil'a" ... here she is!!
Ace Littlest Stick 2020-113
From https://www.coxengineforum.com/t14559-the-wicked-witch-of-the-east

Then, big rain drops about the size of a quarter started immediately coming down. After grabbing my flight box and lose starting gear, I ran 75 feet back to the pickup and was thoroughly drenched before jumping inside. This was mid summer 1978 in North Little Rock, AR.

Then several years later, lost my Littlest Stick when the Pee Wee for some odd reason, started sputtering after launch. (My Pee Wee's never did that before, so reliable. Mad ) It was lost in the 7 foot high reeds in the swamp next to the flying field. There was no way I could retrieve it.

Now I had 2 orphan transmitters on 27 MHz. Kept one, but finally dumped it 20 years ago during a move. tongue
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Post  andrew Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:44 pm

rdw777 wrote:.......Being the Neanderthal that I am I scaled it up from a 8-1/2 x 11 copy and made few changes too…. I used to draw up the remodels at the schools I worked for in past and like drawing a little….

Guess that makes me a Neanderthal, too.  Very Happy

Growing up out in the country, there were no nearby playmates, consequently, I was left to my own devices for entertainment -- so started my lifelong love of modeling.  I managed a subscription to Model Airplane News and practically read the covers off of each issue -- my favorites were the construction articles.  At the time, each issue would usually have 3 scratch building articles and a one page reproduction of each available plan. I couldn't afford to buy the plans, but I could draw, and draw I did.  There was a university, with bookstore, about an hour away and I acquired an architect's and engineer's scale plus some basic drawing tools - triangles, straight edge, french curves, etc.  Most of the plans had a scale on the drawing, so using that and some known dimensions, I was able to reproduce full size plans on freezer paper with some accuracy.  I have several large rolls of plans drawn from the mid-sixties onward, and continue to draw today. I learned to fly R/C on a plane called the Mayfly built from a drawing.  I scaled it up from a 36" to 46" from a plan page in MAN -- it was a simple box construction with lots of straight lines, but, it was tough!

Interestingly, I have also drawn up several remodel plans for a couple of buildings at the University where I worked (not full architectural plans mind you, but dimensional floor plans for offices and labs).  

a--
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Post  HalfaDave Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:19 am

rdw777 wrote:Here’s another one that may be of interest George, You’re the only other person in the world I’ve heard mention Hobby Shack’s “Real Thing”….I thought it would be a good contemporary for the Ace LS….Started this one a couple of years ago but has been on back burner since….. Been distracted fiddling with the little engines….Was originally going to be electric but now I’m thinking .020…. It’s scaled to 30”….Still on hold for a while though….

Ace Littlest Stick 0c55cd10
Ace Littlest Stick 39a65010

Hi All,
The RCM mag came out (1974?) and I drew up the plans and was building a RealThing.
Next months RCM, HobbyShack had a contest for RealThings. (send in photos)
The local hobby shop had only yellow solarfilm,
So I made it like a school bus. (sent photos to California)
The early OS.15 hauled it up good, but landing,
The Trexler wheels made for tripple bounces on a good day.
And it 'waddled' badly taxiing. Flew great. Had fun.
The mailman dropped a card: go to the downtown post office.
I rode my bike back with a 4ft. box.
It was a 'Das Slupping Thing' glider kit from California.
A really nice letter from Paul Bender, president of HobbyShack.
Next issue of RCM, a photo of my plane was in it, 3rd place in the RealThing contest.
My claim to fame,
No one else did it!
Take care,
Have fun,
Dave



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Post  rdw777 Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:43 am

Hi George, I bought mine when they had gone up to $5.00… Ace ran ad’s in the magazines for a long time at that price, I’ve tried to find that ad but no luck…. I seem to remember Ace kind of making a thing about it being the only RC kit at that low price …

I remember seeing the Mattel units in AHC at that unbelievable price for RC at the time…. Also the ACE R/O sets for around $60.00…. At about age sixteen I finally saved up enough for their Digital Commander 3 channel kit…. My LS initially used one Bantam Midget servo from that set when it was PeeWee powered…. I think Cannon may have used the same mechanics for their servos (Dunham? …. Can’t quite remember but you could buy them separately from the Ace catalog…. Looks kind of the same as in your Q-Tee)

I’ve lost a few free flights but not RC…. I can nearly hear the Wicked Witch’s theme as your Skylane was spiraling away lol! lol! lol!

I see from your LS’s photo it appears to have been captured by the Allies and re-insignia-ed….. Mine will remain “Das Schtick!!!!” lol!

From the original magazine publication RCM - Nov ‘75….

Ace Littlest Stick E9c1a810

Glad to know there’s another cave man or two here Andrew lol!….Love to see the drawings and sketches produced here on CEF….My dad helped me to learn to scale up plans out of the mags using a simple multiplier…. I liked figuring out those that had a grid to help you draw the curves….Learning to draw the planes and understand scaling became very helpful later in professional career….. There was a point I could have focused more on CAD but the way I had been doing it on an old drafting table was acceptable and I could do it faster so I just continued that way…. Most of the drawings I did were later scanned so they could be shared thru email and etc…

Dave, I bet that Real Thing dressed up like a school bus was a hoot lol! ….If you have any old photos you’re welcome to do a fly by here…. Thanks for sharing that Very Happy

Robert
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Post  rdw777 Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:19 am

Fabbing up some WW I -ish wheels for it…. Put it the original PeeWee back on for look…. Looks at home Thumbs Up ….. Will be a good alternate for the Cub….I don’t remember where a lot of my engines in my collection came from but I do this .020 for sure….Mom bought it and a Ranger 30 for me when I was about thirteen …. A very special memory….

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Post  andrew Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:23 pm

rdw777 wrote:............. but I do this .020 for sure….Mom bought it and a Ranger 30 for me when I was about thirteen …. A very special memory….

Age and years always help us put things into a perspective that I wish we had when we were younger. I, too, cherish things from my parents for the memories they hold.
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Post  rsv1cox Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:38 pm

I would stick with the Pee Wee for no particular reason other than your plane wears it better. The OK is kind of clunkly in comparison and there must be a weight and CG penalty. You sure have taken good care of the Pee Wee. I have several .049 Ok's but only one with the intake extension like yours.

I always admire your wheels Robert. So well done.
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Post  rdw777 Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:48 am

Very true Andrew, To look back on those times is very humbling to think about the sacrifices and care our parents had for us…. I guess that’s part of being  on the same path as being a granddad that makes me such a softie….

Agree with you Bob, The plane was really made for the .020 ….George and I were just having a little fun kalculatin the what if’s since the Cub is weak for an .049 and not terribly far off on weight comparison….. Would be kind of a novelty more than anything…. Maybe a little in context with Kim’s multi motored Q-Tee…. We’ll see where it goes…. Just playing with an idea….

Thanks for the comment on the wheels… They’re fun to make…. Here’s their beginning… Three layers of hard 1/32 cross grained…. They will get an aluminum tube hub and thin plywood caps…

Ace Littlest Stick 520fc010
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Post  Yabby Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:55 am

rsv1cox wrote:I always admire your wheels Robert.  So well done.  

I fully agree Rod! The woodgrain in the wheels really comletes the model. often you see a nice model and the wheels dont match. If youve got wheels they gotta look right. not just good, but right. Those on the Ace Litlest Stick with the WW I style look spot on. Thumbs Up

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Post  GallopingGhostler Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:07 pm

Robert, is it okay for me to tag along with my resurrecting my Littlest Stick last flown 42 years ago? I'll assume it's OK. Very Happy

rsv1cox wrote:I would stick with the Pee Wee for no particular reason other than your plane wears it better.
Oops! Shocked Sorry Bob, too late! Laughing (Although I know you were talking to Robert. Very Happy ) I'm doing an engine and radio make over. Last time flown was around 1981 with the Ace Pulse Commander. It was obsoleted not long after when US went to the narrow band 72 MHz frequencies. This one was on the older wide band frequencies.
Ace Littlest Stick Ace_rc12
Littlest Stick with OK Cub .049B installed.
Ace Littlest Stick Ace_rc13
Littlest Stick with OK Cub .049B from underneath. Brass fuel tank supply nipple is near the bottom of engine mount flange.

In order to avoid puncturing the Perfect C/L Wedge tank mounted vertically with fuel pickup down low with the sheet metal 2-56 engine mounting screws, I mounted the engine at an angle to clear. It has an added benefit making the venturi needle easier to access.

There is madness into why I would use an OK Cub .049B in place of the .020 Pee Wee. It frees up the Pee Wee, to be used elsewhere. These are now as rare as hen's teeth. Well, almost. Wink

Ace Littlest Stick Hens_t10

With a 5x3 prop mounted backwards, it will fly similar to the Pee Wee. Then engine is only about a half ounce more in weight than the Pee Wee, so there isn't really a weight penalty. With two channel rudder and elevator, now I can really make it zip along propping it with a stronger prop, like a 6x4.

Swapped tank modules with a Pee Wee parts engine.
Ace Littlest Stick Cox_0210

Now, I can use this engine elsewhere. I have a I think by PDQ, a Baby Ringmaster kit for .010 Tee Dee to .020 Pee Wee. That would be a good place for this engine (after clean-up of 42 years storage grime).
Old Bugger Popcorn lol!
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Post  rdw777 Fri Feb 10, 2023 7:38 am

Hi George, You’re welcome to land here at anytime, Kinna hoping you would Very Happy…I get it about planning for which equipment goes in which bird, I do that a lot!

Is the fuse on your plane painted or film covered?…. Regardless it was done neatly making it hard to tell which….. Looks menacing with the canted engine!!!!

Please photo thru the process as you are able…. I would like to see the actuator if possible….I found a photo of the Bantam Midget that was originally in mine…Your Baby RM is welcome here too friend…

Robert

Ace Littlest Stick Eebcc910
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Post  GallopingGhostler Fri Feb 10, 2023 10:52 am

I think those Bantam Midgets are the ones I have in my Q-Tee, bought them as kit servos and assembled them. Being smaller than the standard servos of the time and lighter, they were great for half-A's. Back then, it was all standard components with drilled holes for component legs, no surface mounted components, so soldering components in the small circuit board was easy.

The creme colored plastic covering is Monokote. In this case, I am replacing the Adams Baby Twin Actuator with two Cox 6 gram red micro servos.

One of my Adams Baby Twin Actuators. This one was from my 1976 48-in. Cox .020 TD powered HOB Nomad rudder only glider.

Ace Littlest Stick 2023-039

Ace Littlest Stick 2023-040
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Post  rdw777 Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:56 am

Finally finished this project up!…. PeeWee .020 R/C fed by an external balloon tank…I covered the wing with an old silk scarf right over the existing tissue to cope with the rough field better…. 155 grams ready to fly….After thirty five years and many different rc types and electric power systems, Back to Cox .020 power Small Cox Logo

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