Catalytic converter theft.. and glow head elements

My neighbor next door has had both of his Ford F350 Trucks stolen. (one for his job pulling his "Ditch witch" boring machine for his cable boring job and he also uses that same truck in the winter for snowplowing jobs, and the other is his personal truck for pulling his boat or camper).

His garage door is only slightly over 6-foot opening (old house -- 65years old) and the trucks can't fit the opening (too tall)

Both are diesels which have larger than usual catalytic converters and both have had their catalytic converters stolen in his driveway.
They were so good that they didn't set-off the alarms on the trucks.

Though, the trucks are high up because they both have 4-wheel drive, and you can crawl under the truck on all fours.
It costs him over $3,000 plus to get a replacement converter installed! And he is P.O.-d

I'm not too happy now being his neighbor. He has installed high intensity motion lights that come in on any movement.
When one of the lights come on it shines in from my bathroom at the end of the hall down into my master bedroom and lights up my room to where I have to get up and close the door.
And after any movement they stay on for about 4 hours.
I think he set it for the longest duration of being "ON" after any movement?

The dam light comes on with his dog movement, squirrels, birds sitting on the wire between our houses (any movement!)

I understand, @sosam117 how that the lack of proper law enforcement and societal / government tolerance for wrong provides much inconvenience.

Some time back, may be 20 years ago, there was a big whoopee do over an American 16 year old being caned (whipped, spanking like in the olden days ) in Singapore, for tagging people's cars with graffiti. The press made a big fuss that this poor child was being mistreated by heavy handed oppressive government action. I bet he decided not to tag any more cars after that.

Yet, Singapore has one of the lowest crime rates, 2nd to Japan. Justice has a calming effect on society.

Back in the late 1950's, someone wanting to collect wealth on insurance policies gave his mother a present to be opened at destination arrival. She packed it in her suitcase. It was a time bomb, blew up over Colorado, killing all onboard a United Airlines flight. Then Civil Aeronautics Board (now FAA) with FBI and local law enforcement pieced the aircraft together in an empty hangar or warehouse, finding it started in the cargo hold. Dynamite residue was heaviest on fragments of one particular luggage bag, isolating it down to a passenger. Further investigation narrowed it down to one individual, who took out several last minute insurance policies on his mother. He finally confessed.

Shortly after trial, he was put to death in a Colorado prison gas chamber. It had such a calming effect on society, that even back in the 1970's, I could travel on any airline without X-rays, personal or baggage inspections. It was understood that if someone wanted to do something nefarious on an aircraft, the local authorities and FBI would immediately respond. Terrorists beware.

Crime is solvable with sufficient resources, but most of government funding is toward "safety" and "social benevolence" (welfare and more laws, gone is personal responsibility) to the extent where even in some jurisdictions, repairing a faucet by changing out worn washers is a crime for failing to have a licensed plumber do it.

I remember in Long Beach, CA some 30 years ago, a couple was fined $5,000 for using commercial grade paint (you can only use residential grade on houses there) on their house. Another couple who bought a fixer upper house was fined $10,000, for failing to paint their house. Then hastily did it, fine was reduced to $5,000. The heavy hand is on the otherwise law abiding citizen instead of the criminal. Makes you wonder why crime is so high there. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. That's why I am glad I left there 30 years ago.

Regarding inconveniences, this is why I have never bought into a planned community. I want to choose the color of my house, my lawn plants and color of room drapes, and working on my cars in the driveway or garage. Seems everyone these days wants conformity instead of individuality.

However, I know that doesn't help you in your situation. I bought darkening blinds, so the morning sunlight doesn't abruptly wake me with a bedroom window facing east. Perhaps a suitable solution to cope is a similar move on windows that face your neighbor?

I'm really not complaining about the problem with my neighbors' light problems as much as the increase in crime over the years.
Kid's play a video game where they steal cars for points (Grand Theft Auto) and collect more points for running over pedestrians.

So, they do it in real life the same way they did it in the video (with a gun).
They steal the car, drive it around, crash it then steal another.
If caught by the cops and taken to jail, they are out less than 2 hours (length to do the paper work.)
Then go to trial --- maybe (misdemeanor charges) and released to their parents.

Just two weeks ago (in Chicago), three kids tried to carjack a guy's Audi while waiting in-line at an ATM machine.
He had a conceal carry card.
Shot the one kid who opened the door and tried to drag him out of his car in the lower stomach and shot the other kid who jumped into the passenger's seat.

Two days later there was a protest for those "kids" that they were shot at?
Those "kids" have a long rap sheet of petty crimes but we have marches for them?

Black crime matters?

I'm not biased, but why is it that even when the "good" cops try to stop crime they are looked at as the bad guys?

I'm not even going to start with those "Flash Mob" robberies.

Stores that I use to just walk into, now I have to get buzzed in (clothing store, Jewlery, North Shore puffy coats, even the one hobby shop which has collectable sports memorabilia and stuff.

Currently platinum is about $1000 oz, palladium is in the cats also its about $1700 but was well over $2000 last year.
My F150 5.0 has two cats and yes it's very easy to get under and cut. I priced them a while ago and was shocked. Each cat has two O2 sensors that are very expensive also. Seems like it was 7 or 8 K to replace probably more now.
My insurance both home and car have gone so high I had to cancel homeowners and go with state minimum auto coverage.
Im flying naked and venerable to thieves and windstorms. LOL

So, they do it in real life the same way they did it in the video (with a gun).
They steal the car, drive it around, crash it then steal another.
If caught by the cops and taken to jail, they are out less than 2 hours (length to do the paper work.)
Then go to trial --- maybe (misdemeanor charges) and released to their parents.

Weekend entertainment in Washington D.C. - I get their TV broadcasts.

Angers me. I do not understand the tolerence of some in charge of local governments for this. Parents.............

My dogs are an early warning system, if I catch thieves their only safe move is to run. You can't plug the back because reasons.
What round for cat thieves?

crankbndr wrote:My dogs are an early warning system, if I catch thieves their only safe move is the run. You can't plug the back because reasons.
What round for cat thieves?

I did not include it in my response above but I was thinking OO Buck!

I was just checking "Most violent States per capita" Washington D.C. (Not a State) ranked number one. My old home state of New Hampshire (Live Free or Die) is number 3 on the most crime free list.

My shotguns are stoked with 000 buck, that's 8 9mm balls on target. Lately been tinkering with 10mm for home defense. Assembled three from parts. My last one. Factory loads are all over the place so have to choose the higher velocity choices, like bear loads!
The 6 inch long slide mitigates recoil well.

Hi roddie,

The prices on those cat converters are interesting...
~10yrs ago I was part of a small craft brewery, in charge of deliveries around southern Ontario.
Large, med GMs, and two small honda vans.
Went to fill, check oil etc on Tues, for Wed-Fri delivery routes... VROOM !  All of 4 them... HE doulble hockey sticks ! ! !
Renting vans, getting them repaired cost us north of $8K... ouch!
Looking at those cat prices, the thieves got mabee what, $ 400 ? Makes me sick...
The investigating cop said 15 other businesses along the same street were hit that night too...
Said all had no surveilllance cams, they were a pro gang...chasing them for years.
Landlord put in cameras, rent went up. Claiming on insurance, those rates would of gone up...
It was really frustrating, infuriating and...
Rant Over,
No use getting getting riled up again...
Dave

In my area (Chicago) the police are painting them bright orange and spray stencil number on the catalytic converters to deter theft.

That seems to be not working as well because they still get stolen --- fancy bright paint and all.

I remember years ago when catalytic converters were being installed.
We were able to get back then "test tube" section of pipe so you could remove the converter.
You were supposed to see "if" the converter was casing excessive back pressure problems.
If it was, it was time to replace the converter.
Most people back then just left the "test tube" section in place and never bothered to get a new converter.

I did a web search and could not find that "test tube" section anywhere?
Did the EPA (Government) get smart and pulled it? I think so!

If my converter got stolen, I would have installed a "test tube" pipe. (temporary )

They must have stopped diagnosing cats that way ages ago, I've never even heard of it. These days, you just gut the cat and install "spark plug extenders" on the post cat O2 sensors. If you have to get emissions tested, IL doesn't do tailpipe tests and I haven't seen them use a mirror under the car in years. But, you have to make sure you don't have a check engine light and 7 of 8 emissions flags are set in the ECU.

A used truck dealer was hit here a few months back. 28 vehicles, $85,000 damage.

Crime has spread out this way as well. A tire shop in town was robbed a gunpoint the other day. There were a couple drive bys in the last few months. I used to tell my wife that kind of stuff just doesn't happen here.

sosam117 wrote:



I'm not biased, but why is it that even when the "good" cops try to stop crime they are looked at as the bad guys?

I'm not even going to start with those "Flash Mob" robberies.

The people who are in control of our MSM do not have the best interest of the USA at heart.
In fact they are working with the Democrat [Globalist] Party to incite crime and violence with the hope of eventual Civil War and justification to disarm the law abiding citizens of the USA.
We have already reached the point where self defense with a firearm will make person who defended himself...... Public Enemy #1.

gkamysz wrote:They must have stopped diagnosing cats that way ages ago, I've never even heard of it. These days, you just gut the cat and install "spark plug extenders" on the post cat O2 sensors. If you have to get emissions tested, IL doesn't do tailpipe tests and I haven't seen them use a mirror under the car in years. But, you have to make sure you don't have a check engine light and 7 of 8 emissions flags are set in the ECU.

A used truck dealer was hit here a few months back. 28 vehicles, $85,000 damage.

Crime has spread out this way as well. A tire shop in town was robbed a gunpoint the other day. There were a couple drive bys in the last few months. I used to tell my wife that kind of stuff just doesn't happen here.

I live in Plainfield, Illinois and yes they did do the tail pipe test.
How I know is that I failed it one year with my 1987 Chevy Sprint XM (later became the GEO Metro XFi)
I would get 53 miles to the gallon on the highway and the gas tank was 8.5 gallons big.

It had a Suzuki 900cc 3 cylinder engine (car was made by Suzuki -- placard on the firewall gave info where it was made).
It had a "manual" choke (if any of you remember how to choke a car before starting it? --- pull choke all the way out, start car, then slowly push in the choke as the car warmed up.)

When up to speed, if the car was warmed up or not, I could push the choke in and it's running fine (it usually warmed up fast anyway)

It had a 5-speed manual transmission and 1st gear was geared high so it was not good to try to just creep along in 1st without slipping the clutch. I hated stop and go traffic because of the high 1st gear ratio.

5th gear, at 60mph the engine hummed along at 2100rpm (no air conditioning -- just the roll down wind air conditioner)

That engine ran so clean the tail pipe was a whitish-gray.
So, here in Illinois I got a card in the mail that my Sprint needed emission testing.

O.K. I'll get it tested at the Louis Joliet Mall testing facility (40 miles from where I work) and get it tested after I do the 40 miles on Interstate 55 (doing 60mph).
The car should be all warmed up and good for the test?

I pull into the testing facility and pull up behind a car that was already getting his test done. My Sprint is ready to go!
While I sat watching the car in front of me get setup for testing I see the tech stick a rod up the tail pipe and do a few other things on the car in the test booth.

The car in the booth goes through the test --- idle --- running at a higher rpm --- then back to idle.
In the meantime, I see a cloud of smoke come out of this car when he gave it the gas for the higher rpm run.
And saw more smoke billow out when it went to idle.

I knew this car won't pass!
But it did? WHAT?

O.K. if that mosquito fogger passed, I have no problems at all.

I pulled into the bay, got hooked up and the sensor rod shoved up my exhaust pipe.
Went through the same testing as the guy that was in the bay before me.
The tech comes back and said that I failed badly for carbon monoxide and gave me my printed results.

I was to get the car tuned up and any problems adjusted to reduce my emission problems.
I tried to point out to the tech that the car before me probably messed up the exhaust sensor with his smoky exhaust.
And I asked the tech to recalibrate his equipment. All I go for an answer was that the equipment is in working order.

I got P.O. and took the paperwork and drove off.
Before I got home, I decided to go to another emission test facility close by (Aurora --- 23 miles the other side of Plainfield).

I just got there and into one of the testing bay before they closed (about 15 minutes).
The tech asked for my postcard for my testing. I told him that I have this paperwork from my failed testing.
The tech asked if I had receipts for the work done on the car by a auto shop?
I told him I did all the work myself.

O.K. --- let's hook it up ---- the tech reply.
Hooked up my Sprint, ran it through the tests and passed!
The tech was amazed of how "clean" the emission printout report was on my Sprint. It was the lowest he has ever seen!

I told the tech I adjust the valves when the engine is hot (the manual says either hot or cold adjustments)
And working on that Sprint engine was like working on my old Suzuki 1979 GS750 engine.
That bike is a sweet ride too! (Still have it)

What got me so mad is I did nothing to that Sprint but drive to another test facility and get it tested!

Now a days:

All of my cars are so old that I don't need to get them tested.

1991 Chevy Cavalier RS and a 1994 Saturn SW2 wagon.

And my prized beauty --- 1978 Olds 442 with Hurst shifter (in a metalic golden brown) and OEM gold color Honeycomb rims.

Love the 442, @sosam117.

TD ABUSER wrote:

sosam117 wrote:I'm not biased, but why is it that even when the "good" cops try to stop crime they are looked at as the bad guys? I'm not even going to start with those "Flash Mob" robberies.

The people who are in control of our MSM do not have the best interest of the USA at heart. In fact they are working with the Democrat [Globalist] Party to incite crime and violence with the hope of eventual Civil War and justification to disarm the law abiding citizens of the USA. We have already reached the point where self defense with a firearm will make person who defended himself...... Public Enemy #1.

When I was younger, I learned by examples in military service and in the workplace, that if you simply deal with the violators (i.e., don't penalize the law/rule abiding) and nip things in the bud, you quickly bring a problem to a close and problem goes away. Other countries deal with violators quickly and thoroughly. Why? Because it works.

Let's just say that the politicians aren't interested in justice nor benevolence toward the law abiding, only their pocket books. (Say anything further and we'll need to visit the Redneck Zone!)

sosam117 wrote:What got me so mad is I did nothing to that Sprint but drive to another test facility and get it tested!

The first shop you went to was dishonest or incompetent. At least know you know who to go to next time. Fortunately, I live rural here in New Mexico, which most part is mostly rural, only testing is in Bernalilo County (Albuquerque) and Santa Fe. However, I have replaced catalytic converters on my cars before. The earlier ones, seemed the converters went bad around 115,000 miles. The interior honeycomb plating became brittle and broke, affected exhaust output. Did that both to my 1990 Dodge D150 pickup with V6 and 1984 Dodge Aries. The universal replacements were of much better quality. So far haven't had to replace the cats on current vehicles (fingers crossed).

Must have been at least 15 years ago. I can't remember the last time I had a tail pipe test. Maybe the first time I went, they put my truck on the rollers, maybe '99 or 2000.

Some test centers were dishonest to drum up traffic for service shops. They still hand out a list of shops if you fail.

I recently had to pay $2400.00 in repairs to my 2005 Chevy Trailblazer in order to pass the Rhode-Island motor-vehicle state-inspection. My cat.-conv. was ok.. but I had an issue with my ABS system causing the system trouble lamp to light. Months earlier I'd brought it in for what felt like a "low brake-pedal feel". There was no squealing or grinding.. but they told me that I needed a complete front brake-job. I approved the work.. and later-on; got another call saying that I needed a master-cylinder. (I probably had another XXXX mi. on the old pads.. but screw me) At that time they mentioned that someone "else" had previously done brake-work causing an ABS issue.. and that's why the trouble-light was now on after replacing the M.C. That was on 3/15/2022 and my vehicle's odometer read 130,150.00 mi.

Fast-forward to 11/3/2022 and 132,513 on the odometer and it's "inspection time"... and had developed a noise that sounded like a worn whl. bearing coming from the left-front. I also had an oil leak that I wanted to have fixed. I knew that I wouldn't pass if "any" trouble-lights were lit on the instrument panel.. so the ABS system needed attention. So I drop it off and wait for the repair estimate.

So............. they call and tell me; my vehicle passes emissions standards but fails for safety..... and "yes".. I need a left front hub/wheel-bearing.. left upper and lower ball-joints, right tie-rod end, a leaking "mid-muffler" (resonator-split down the middle seam...) and my power-steering lines all need replacing ("a BIG job".. ) and.. oh yes.. the ABS sensor in the "right front hub/bearing" is causing the ABS trouble-light. I approve the repairs.. and work-out my transportation displacement while they're being done. My inspection-sticker had expired over 30 days ago and I'd been rolling the dice long enough.

So............ they call me and tell me that I need an ABS "PUMP".... (really?) but that they could get one "used" and save me some $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

So............ they complete the other repairs and let me take my car.. while they locate an ABS pump. When I pick up my car.. the dash-lights no longer work. The "IDIOT-LIGHTS" all work.. but none of the instrument-panel lights. (they still don't)

So........... they source a used (junkyard) ABS pump.. and I drop my car off again.. and again arrange for my transportation displacement.. while they proceed.. They have my car for 3 days.. because they're closed on Mondays...

So.......... "I" stop by the shop on the following Tuesday afternoon.. after I get out of work.. and the "lead mechanic" (business owner) is really mad After installing the replacement ABS pump, they bled the system.. and went to connect the harness to find a "wrong connector/plug" which was non-compatible. I'd need to leave my car there until a pump with the correct harness/connector could be sourced...

They knew at this point; that they couldn't charge me further for their incompetence... and I had begun to grow a pair of wings.

All told; once they installed the correct ABS pump, the ABS system trouble-light goes "out" after the engine is started and running.. and they were able to obtain a "PASS" result on the inspection.

The ABS doesn't work like it used to though. The brake-pedal used to "buzz" if the system sensed wheel "lock-up". I've tried "panic-stops".. (even on sand-covered pavement) and can't get the wheels to lock-up.. but the pedal doesn't buzz/pulsate.. the way it used to. The brake-pedal didn't feel the same.. but I've gotten used to it now.

Unfortunately, I've been walking funny ever since paying that repair bill..

The functional problem with removing the CatCon is that most cars these days have upstream O2 sensors (between engine and CatCon), and downstream O2 sensors (after CatCon).

The upstream sensor determines proper air/fuel mixture, or lack-there-of. The downstream sensor is to determine proper operation of the CatCon. If the CatCon is damaged (or too old to be effective), or removed, then the Check Engine light turns on.

There was a company selling modules that tricked the Engine Management System by sending the same "signal" as a properly operating CatCon. This made short work of removing the CatCon. They were forced out of business because they "tampered with Federal Emissions Controls."

If the vehicle has only an upstream sensor, then there is no indication to the engine management system that the CatCon is ineffective or missing.

Consumers are told the downstream sensor (and Check Engine Light) is for environmental health for all. I suspect it is to dissuade consumers from operating the vehicle without a CatCon "contrary to the environmental health for all."
I bet the manufacturers were forced to build this in as part of Federal Vehicle Emissions standards,.and I believe in conspiracies.

944_Jim wrote:Consumers are told the downstream sensor (and Check Engine Light) is for environmental health for all. I suspect it is to dissuade consumers from operating the vehicle without a CatCon "contrary to the environmental health for all." I bet the manufacturers were forced to build this in as part of Federal Vehicle Emissions standards,and I believe in conspiracies.

It was mandated through the EPA regulations in the US CFR's (Code of Federal Regulations).

Cars prior are required to meet the standards of when they were released in most jurisdictions, although the states can go one up on the Federal, like California has done with their CARB (California Air Resource Board). I replaced the cats in my earlier vehicles, because it is possible that I could be randomly tested in some jurisdictions, and without modifying the fuel system jetting or programming, wanted to retain the original back pressure as designed. It is Federal Law that removing a cat was is considered criminal. So, I replaced them and then moved on. Then 25 years ago, converters weren't as pricey as they are now.

Yes, the secondary O2 sensor is to monitor cat performance. Since cats are harder to do exhaust work and welded in place, I'm further off to have the right competent reasonable professional to replace it.

Fortunately, my 2001 Kawasaki Voyager XII touring motorcycle doesn't use a cat system in its exhaust. With 96 HP from its upsized detuned 1200cc Ninja in-line 4 cylinder engine and 800 lb. weight, it will outrun most of the current 2 cylinder greater displacement touring bikes. I love rolling the throttle and watching the cages (cars) behind me disappear on the open highway.

Wonder if we could melt down some of the Rhodium or platimun and make wire to fix our burned out plugs? Merlin (Al Kelley) used to repair old plugs for $5 before he went into the business a bit deeper. Anyway, I spent a lot of money because of useless mechanics. Had an old Micra that didn't pass emissions, but got a pass, so good for two years. Decided to give it to my son. Well, check, no pass, new convertor, no pass, check again, fiddled around, check again. Fixed some E brake thing and faked a pass. $800 later I could give it away. There was a small split in a vacuum hose that I found myself. Free fix. My Sunfire which I still use didn't pass. Money light was on. Checked the gas cap... fine. Replaced the evap valve or whatever it is on the tank. $200. Light still on. He fiddled around till he got tired of looking at me and let it go. That was with the big drum that you had to spin with the tires. That was just the gasket in the gas cap which I found on my own later. Ya he inspected it though. Oh ya I used the same gasket on my Astro van when the light came on because it slit apart. Oh ya and my son's Chevy Sprint with the three cylinder motor wasn't running on all three. Couldn't spin the big roller. Glad the emissions are not done any more. One good thing about this provincial government now. Some guys use a broom stick to poke out the honeycomb when they get plugged up. I used a test pipe on one of my old cars before emissions. Never took it anywhere to get fixed so who would know? I do think the emissions are a good thing though. I went to a lot of car show and was behind old cars from the 1960s and 70s and they were pretty bad. And smog in the big cities now is hardly an issue here at least. Oh, I could write a book. Guess I just did.

aspeed wrote:Wonder if we could melt down some of the Rhodium or platinum and make wire to fix our burned out plugs?

Problem would be extracting the precious metals (I think it may be a coating) from the spent substrate after cutting the converter open.

Regarding the glow head / plug elements, ni-chrome wire is coated by the precious metals, once if you could extract them from the cat, how do you coat the wire?

The plug manufacturers purchase the wire already coated. Even if we had the wire, the difficulty would after forming, is spot welding the wire onto the center contact pin and aluminum head. Considering the difficulty and special equipment required, paying $13 for a Cox .049 head or glow plug is not a bad deal price wise.

Hi All,

I think 'recycling' is the way to go. Legaly.!
Stupid, the way it is now.
Hey sosam177,
That Suzuki 3cyl is a great engine. A five speed gear box, mostly in 3rd.
Beat any more hp, on a close tight track.
I think this is why,
I like 1/2A,
Dave

HalfaDave wrote:Hi All,

I think 'recycling'  is the way to go. Legaly.!
Stupid, the way it is now.
Hey sosam177,
That Suzuki 3cyl is a great engine. A five speed gear box, mostly in 3rd.
Beat any more hp, on a close tight track.
I think this is why,
I like 1/2A,
Dave

Dave,
I have the four cylinder 4-stroke GS750EN and not the GT750 3 cylinder 2-stroke (Water Buffalo).
My brother had/has the GT750.
His bike has been sitting in his garage since he got married over 35 years ago and hasn't moved since then either.

As for me.
I have and ride my 1979 GS750 (Comstar mags -- $300 extra option over the spokes and with a Mac 4 to one header/exhaust.)And I like the dark blue paint on the bike --- looks like a deep blue in the sun light but at night it looks like a "black" motorcycle.
By the way, I forgot to install the side covers on the bike after I cleaned it and took the photo (oops!)



along with my 1986 RG500 (4 cyl 2-stroke),



My 1987 Walter Wolfe RG500 (4 cyl 2-stroke)  *** only 100 of them made ***



and my 1991 RGV250 (2 cyl 2-stroke)





I use to race my 1986 RG500 (for 4 years) and 1991 RGV250 (for 2 years)
Then gave up the motorcycle racing in 1994 (cost of entry fees and all of the other costs that go along with racing -- Prices.)