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Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines  ---  Whatis the % of the fuel mix? Empty
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Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines  ---  Whatis the % of the fuel mix? Empty Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines --- Whatis the % of the fuel mix?

Post  sosam117 Sat Feb 18, 2023 11:21 am

Looking around on Matt's website (EX Model Engines) and ran across that he has pre-mixed diesel fuel available?
It is marketed as "General Purpose Diesel Fuel" New Davis Diesel Item.

Matt,
What is the mixture of the fuel?
Is it 33% Ether / 33% kerosine / 34% castor oil?

I noticed it is not for 1/2A engines (higher Ether content with maybe some 2% Amile Nitrate)

Thanks for the information Matt.

sosam117 (Mike)


Last edited by sosam117 on Sun Feb 19, 2023 7:26 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fuel mix %)
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Post  sosam117 Sun Feb 19, 2023 7:28 am

Anybody knows what is the percentage mixture of EX Model Engines diesel fuel?
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Post  gkamysz Sun Feb 19, 2023 11:26 am

The fuel is Davis ABC blend. Davis never published the secret sauce, but this was posted somewhere as the formula he sent to countries he couldn't ship his fuel to. ABC = 32% ether, 2%"booster", 12% castor. balance kerosene. My own tests confirmed this approximate ether content. The Plain(?) fuel contained another 12% of synthetic oil.

For a bit of trivia, ages ago DDD fuel was blended and packaged in Kewanee, IL by Space Age Fuels.
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Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines  ---  Whatis the % of the fuel mix? Empty Re: Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines --- Whatis the % of the fuel mix?

Post  ffkiwi Sun Feb 19, 2023 7:58 pm

Well for god's sake don't anyone use that fuel in a ferrous piston liner setup-WAY too low in oil content, even IF it is castor....

ChrisM
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Post  TD ABUSER Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:58 pm

ffkiwi wrote:Well for god's sake don't anyone use that fuel in a ferrous piston liner setup-WAY too low in oil content, even IF it is castor....

  ChrisM
  'ffkiwi'

Maybe the thinking with a BB engine is that the kero & castor combined is enough oil..?
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Post  EXModelEngines Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:13 pm

Missed this thread. Yes, we bought what was left of the diesel fuel (only ABC) and can mix up new batches depending on quantities sold. We do have the original formulas, but they are hard copies and I have to grab them from storage since there was nothing imminent regarding mixing a new batch. We still have something like 36 quarts of the ABC.
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Post  ffkiwi Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:43 pm

TD ABUSER wrote:
ffkiwi wrote:Well for god's sake don't anyone use that fuel in a ferrous piston liner setup-WAY too low in oil content, even IF it is castor....

  ChrisM
  'ffkiwi'

Maybe the thinking with a BB engine is that the kero & castor combined is enough oil..?

No one with any brains-and previous diesel experience in ferrous metallurgy would recommend a lubricant component as low as 14%....even WITH BBs-theres's still the P/L lubrication, and the rod, gudgeon and big end lubrication to consider-its not just about the main bearings! Even the type of induction plays a role-especially with things like drum valves....

ChrisM
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Post  Oldenginerod Sat Mar 04, 2023 10:49 pm

ffkiwi wrote:Well for god's sake don't anyone use that fuel in a ferrous piston liner setup-WAY too low in oil content, even IF it is castor....

  ChrisM
  'ffkiwi'

Hey Chris. Good to hear from you. I've been trying to find out how our resident Kiwis have been doing since the cyclone. Glad you're still with us. We've been well away in Central Otago and the weather was pretty well perfect. Yet to hear from Davenz.
Rod.
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Post  ffkiwi Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:00 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:
ffkiwi wrote:Well for god's sake don't anyone use that fuel in a ferrous piston liner setup-WAY too low in oil content, even IF it is castor....

  ChrisM
  'ffkiwi'

Hey Chris.  Good to hear from you.  I've been trying to find out how our resident Kiwis have been doing since the cyclone.  Glad you're still with us.  We've been well away in Central Otago and the weather was pretty well perfect. Yet to hear from Davenz.
Rod.

Rod-the cyclone absolutely hammered northland, auckland, coromandel, and the entire east coast area from north of Gisborne right down into lower Wairarapa-with the Hawkes bay region being the hardest hit. Wellington itself (where I am) was unscathed-apart from the odd tree here and there losing a branch or two-and the South Island completely untouched. You also have to take into account that Northland, Auckland and the Coromandel were still recovering from a severe storm two weeks earlier. But the Hawkes Bay region has been devastated -loss of life not high-11 confirmed, with 4 or 5 still missing-with the emphasis on 'missing unaccounted for' rather than 'missing presumed dead'-but the damage is beyond belief-far worse than the Christchurch earthquake-and over large areas-massive damage to roads, rail, water supply, electrical and communications networks-recover will probably take decades...

Not sure where Davenz is/was....I have a feeling he's up north somewhere?....if so might well be affected by one or other of these extreme weather events.

ChrisM
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Post  sosam117 Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:41 am

EXModelEngines wrote:Missed this thread. Yes, we bought what was left of the diesel fuel (only ABC) and can mix up new batches depending on quantities sold. We do have the original formulas, but they are hard copies and I have to grab them from storage since there was nothing imminent regarding mixing a new batch. We still have something like 36 quarts of the ABC.

So Matt,
Would you be able to mix up some 1/2A diesel fuel if I needed it?


Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines  ---  Whatis the % of the fuel mix? Davis_11
Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines  ---  Whatis the % of the fuel mix? 003_da10


My replacement Diesel fuel container with a silver soldered rod across the top of the cap, so I don' have to use pliers on the cap and damage the seal inside the cap.

Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines  ---  Whatis the % of the fuel mix? Img_0201
Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines  ---  Whatis the % of the fuel mix? Img_0202
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Post  gkamysz Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:23 am

ffkiwi wrote:
No one with any brains-and previous diesel experience in ferrous metallurgy would recommend a lubricant component as low as 14%....even WITH BBs-theres's still the P/L lubrication, and the rod, gudgeon and big end lubrication to consider-its not just about the main bearings! Even the type of induction plays a role-especially with things like drum valves....

ChrisM

And yet, F2C racers (diesel team race) were running as little as 10% oil in their engines. 15% was decidedly the maximum and any more was pointless. These were iron/steel engines at the time. The rod big end is always the limiting factor. Later they were running 5% oil castor or synthetic in, I assume, ABC engines. Is there an application tougher than F2C? It's not something I've done myself, but the newsletters had well known names. Today, they talk about 10-12% depending on how much money you have for engines.


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Post  ffkiwi Sun Mar 05, 2023 12:18 pm

gkamysz wrote:
ffkiwi wrote:
No one with any brains-and previous diesel experience in ferrous metallurgy would recommend a lubricant component as low as 14%....even WITH BBs-theres's still the P/L lubrication, and the rod, gudgeon and big end lubrication to consider-its not just about the main bearings! Even the type of induction plays a role-especially with things like drum valves....

ChrisM

And yet, F2C racers (diesel team race) were running as little as 10% oil in their engines. 15% was decidedly the maximum and any more was pointless. These were iron/steel engines at the time. The rod big end is always the limiting factor. Later they were running 5% oil castor or synthetic in, I assume, ABC engines. Is there an application tougher than F2C? It's not something I've done myself, but the newsletters had well known names. Today, they talk about 10-12% depending on how much money you have for engines.



But they weren't using normal engines-and not even normal oils. A747 and some even more exotic types-some went down as low as 7%....and they didn't stay there! That is the key point-and even with the modern engines-with vastly superior fits and metallurgy-its a brave man who goes below your 10-12%. I'd like to see some documentary evidence for your 5% figure claim....

ChrisM
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Post  EXModelEngines Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:30 pm

sosam117 wrote:
EXModelEngines wrote:Missed this thread. Yes, we bought what was left of the diesel fuel (only ABC) and can mix up new batches depending on quantities sold. We do have the original formulas, but they are hard copies and I have to grab them from storage since there was nothing imminent regarding mixing a new batch. We still have something like 36 quarts of the ABC.

So Matt,
Would you be able to mix up some 1/2A diesel fuel if I needed it?


Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines  ---  Whatis the % of the fuel mix? Davis_11
Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines  ---  Whatis the % of the fuel mix? 003_da10


My replacement Diesel fuel container with a silver soldered rod across the top of the cap, so I don' have to use pliers on the cap and damage the seal inside the cap.

Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines  ---  Whatis the % of the fuel mix? Img_0201
Diesel Fuel being sold by EX Model Engines  ---  Whatis the % of the fuel mix? Img_0202

We are not set up to mix fuel and I doubt I would go that route if we decided to make some. There are a couple of places Davis recommended including Space Age Fuels (mentioned in this thread) although I have no idea if they are still in business, minimum quantities,. etc.
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Post  sosam117 Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:40 am

[/quote]
We are not set up to mix fuel and I doubt I would go that route if we decided to make some. There are a couple of places Davis recommended including Space Age Fuels (mentioned in this thread) although I have no idea if they are still in business, minimum quantities,. etc.[/quote]


Matt,
Space Age Fuels is also out of business.
The last place I got diesel fuel from was Red Max and that was almost 20 years ago.
And I had to buy 8 gallons of fuel.
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Post  EXModelEngines Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:01 am

We are not set up to mix fuel and I doubt I would go that route if we decided to make some. There are a couple of places Davis recommended including Space Age Fuels (mentioned in this thread) although I have no idea if they are still in business, minimum quantities,. etc.[/quote]


Matt,
Space Age Fuels is also out of business.
The last place I got diesel fuel from was Red Max and that was almost 20 years ago.
And I had to buy 8 gallons of fuel.[/quote]

Thanks for the notice. Once I locate the formulas I'll check on it. The potential issue (always the issue!) is what minimums would we have to take and how long would funds be tied up for fuel to sell.
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Post  TD ABUSER Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:42 pm

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