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Post  batjac Thu May 18, 2023 2:16 am

One of the things I'm doing in prep for S.M.A.L.L. is getting my Ambush plane ready by installing a Testors 8000 engine in it.  It has been Black Widow powered since I built it, but I figured that it really deserves an 8000 engine, as that is the engine it was designed for.

So, I dug up the instructions for a Testors 8000 and read them.  Hmmmm.... According to the Testors instructions, Testors engines should be flown with 100% synthetic oil.  Testors = castor bad.  I never knew this!  According to the instructions, Testors fuels weren't made with castor!  Now I'll have to mix up a quart of Testors specific fuel for my Testors engines, and flush the ones I have run with castor based fuels per the instructions.  The instructions recommend 15% nitro fuel, but the engines are rated for up to 40%.  No mention of total oil content, so I'll just go with 20% oil and 25% nitro.

The Discoverer Mark
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Post  Levent Suberk Thu May 18, 2023 2:55 am

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Post  GallopingGhostler Thu May 18, 2023 6:25 am

Thanks Mark and Levent, for pointing out the fuel requirements. Then the standard 15+% nitro R/C fuel with 16% synth and 2% Castor would probably be at home with the 8000. Seems that with such low Castor, would less likely gum up the starter. I found it interesting that to ensure the engine could run on all synth fuel, Bill Netzeband prepped the engine with special bronze crankshaft bearings and a different piston socket arrangement. This is not possible with our Coxes due to the piston ball and socket joint and lack of bronze bushings for the crankshaft.

I also found it interesting that our standard Cox 15% nitro with 10% synth and 10% Castor would be good with the Sanye factory's AP .09 engines, due to the non-bushed aluminum connecting rod. I think I read in the Sanye AP .15 based on the .09 (.136 cu. in. displacement) also recommended a Castor based fuel, and don't skimp on the oil. Also of interest, Cox oil package is good for the K&B Sporster series engines. Seems many a modeler ruined the engines by using fuels with less than 20% oil with less than half of that oil as Castor, then blamed the manufacturer for failing to fuel it properly.
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Post  rsv1cox Thu May 18, 2023 8:12 am

I have several of these engines and can attest that castor oil will lock them and the rotomatic starter up, so not everybody reads instructions or used Testors fuel.  But, Berrymans is the cure for both engine and starter quickly returning both to operational status.  But, Berrymans and other heroic measures did not clean the castor goo from the throttle sleeve of my Cox Ryan ST which needed complete disassembly before that goo could be removed.  Same for the throttled Wen-Macs.  

Checked my lone can of Testors fuel (empty) to see if they mentioned lube.  Don't.  But it is registered with the New York Fire Department......or equivalent

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Post  Ken Cook Thu May 18, 2023 4:34 pm

I ran a entire gallon of Cool Power 30% nitro heli fuel which is 24% full synthetic oil through a Cox .049 product engine. I ran it with 3" props, I ran it with 8" props as lean as I could run it. I was driving my club members crazy doing it. I would get to the field and just let it run in the corner. As soon as it would run out of fuel, I would fire it up again. No ball socket failure, no wear that was even noticeable in the ball socket. I reset them with little to no play. From feel , it was no different than when I started. I disagree that synthetic fuel will wipe out a Cox engine because I tried to do it. The only fuel I ever had that wiped out a Cox Black Widow was Aero Dyne 70% nitro fuel, the rod came out the side of the case. I have no idea or remember what oil was used in that fuel. But, I disagree that synthetic fuel will ruin a Cox engine. I use Klotz Super Techniplate in brand new 1940's engines and nothing wears out or breaks.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Thu May 18, 2023 10:43 pm

Ken, overall, I gather that the impetus for use of Castor oil had to do with protection during a lean run. Seems most of our engines entered ruin when a lean run was entered, reducing the available lubrication in the air fuel mix, overheating an engine and vaporizing and combusting the synthetic with no oil left to lubricate metal surfaces.

Departing with a sense of humor,  Wink the dangers of using synthetic oils has been thoroughly documented even as far back as use by the Spagthorpe Motorcycle Company, famed inventor of the radioactive powered motorcycle car. Paranoid

https://cybermotorcycle.com/archives/spagthorpe/synthetic.html Don't let me keep silent to let you know that you all have been forewarned!  Very Happy

Spagthorpe Maintenance Bulletins wrote:Beware of synthetic oil! It can do terrible things to you and your beloved motorcycle. It will not only leak out of your engine faster than you can put it in, but it will also cause your oil filter to clog and implode, dumping debris and dirt into your lubrication system. It also will make every part of your bike permanently slippery because of its linear molecular chain dispersion action. Then it will leak onto your kickstand causing it to retract automatically, dropping your bike on the ground! But that's not all...

Synthetic oil will round off your gears and spin your bearings. It will also splatter onto your seat causing your girlfriend to fall off in the apex of a turn and she'll never ride with you again. Synthetic oil coats your sight window and your timing window with a whitish pro-emulsification additive that is both non-removable and highly corrosive. Synthetic oil will completely leak onto the ground overnight and your dog will drink it and die.

Synthetic oil will wear out your tires and make your battery leak. It will give you the desperate need to urinate after you put your full leathers on and then jam your zippers shut. It will contaminate your gasoline causing your bike to stall on railroad tracks and accelerate uncontrollably near police cars. It will make it rain during rallies and on weekends. It will lubricate four timing belts causing them to jump teeth and break your valves to bits. Synthetic oil chemically weakens desmodromic valves and causes the clearances to change every six miles. Then it melts the black soles of your riding boots night before you walk across your new carpeting.

While riding past groups of attractive women it will cause both of your handlebar grips to slip off at the same time so you smash your windscreen with the bridge of your nose. It also causes your swingarm to crack, your studs to break, and your rotors to warp, and then it voids your warranty by changing your odometer reading to 55,555. It also dries out your wetclutch and wets your dryclutch. It makes your clutch slave cylinder seal fail in the heaviest traffic on the hottest day of the year while putting an angry wasp in your helmet for good measure.

Synthetic oil hides your 13mm socket and puts superglue on your earplugs. Synthetic oil will scratch your faceshield and make your gloves shrink two sizes night before trackday. Synthetic oil stole your neutral and sold it to the Chinese for £1.25. Synthetic oil will make you grow a tail. Synthetic oil will write long crazy e-mails to your Internet friends and then sign your name at the bottom!

lol! I Love This Forum!
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Post  944_Jim Fri May 19, 2023 7:36 am

I have nothing of significance on this one. But I DO remember that Testor's fuel had a different smell in the can and while running. I also seem to remember it was pink.

While these are vague memories, I also seem to remember my Cox engines ran differently on Testor's fuel, and I didn't appreciate how they ran on it. I can't remember why I preferred to run Cox fuel in my Cox engines beyond I couldn't afford the higher nitro blend.

I also remember Testor's engines seemed to run a bit flat on the lower nitro-content Cox fuel I used (economizing in my childhood). I can only believe the available Testor's fuel had more nitro than the Cox fuel. But this is only supposition decades after the events took place.
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