Funny what you find when you go looking

Congratulations Robert! I've been needing to do a major clean-out/re-org. I'd been hoarding stuff for years, to use for when I retired.. and I've been retired since Feb. of 2023. I've got boxes of stuff that haven't been opened for almost 15 years. Hoping that I might find X4 Veco .19RC glow engines that had been removed from a B24 Liberator RC model that was given to me back in the early 1990's.

The photo below shows the model in the attic of our old apartment.. sans engines circa 2005. Note the yellow "Domino" 5lb. sugar bags sitting between the fuse and wing. The engines "were" in one or both of those bags at that time.. and I don't remember mounting them back on the model. The model itself was later stored at my brother's house where it met with a fate that has never been disclosed to me..   I'd love to find those four engines.. because they were all in A1 condition with no signs of ever having been run.



This is an example of the Veco .19RC engine that there were four of.. originally in that model..

Ouch!!!!!  I would hate to lose that Liberator to say nothing about the four Veco 19's.  I have for years wanted to build a Cox Babe Bee powered Liberator to compliment my P-38 but never got around to it.  Your's, a R/C model even more enjoyable if for nothing else than to taxi around the driveway.  

I found a place on my workbench for the multimeter and treated the McCoy to a Berryman's cleanup.  No disassembly.  When is your model engine most subject to damage.....?  Well, crashing it into asphalt or concrete is number one, (done that) but number two is when you "clean it up."

Pliers, incorrect screwdrivers, improper solvents result in torn gaskets etc..  An assembled engine Berryman's 20 minute soak is the least invasive way to clean a model engine.  Just remove the glow plug, needle, and loosen the back plate and dunk it in with a clipped propeller.  Let it soak, then while emerserd in the Berrymans turn the propeller CW and CCW several rotations distributing the solvent completely through the engine.  Remove and spray Simple Green in the glow plug hole, the intake and exhaust ports CW and CCW some more.  Emerse it completely in water, more CW and CCW.  

Draw some hot soapy water, emerse and more CW and CCW.  You do not want Berrymans or Simple Green left in the crankcase!  Rinse in clean hot water, more CW and CCW.  Blow out with compressed air and dry with a heat gun.  Add a few drops of MMO in the ports and down the glow plug hole.  More CW and CCW.  

10 years from now you will find the engine clean and ready to run.

rsv1cox wrote:I have for years wanted to build a Cox Babe Bee powered Liberator to compliment my P-38 but never got around to it.  Your's, a R/C model even more enjoyable if for nothing else than to taxi around the driveway. I found a place on my workbench for the multimeter and treated the McCoy to a Berryman's cleanup.  No disassembly.  When is your model engine most subject to damage.....?  Well, crashing it into asphalt or concrete is number one, (done that) but number two is when you "clean it up."

Bob, I blew up the Black Head's photo to see its size on the side of the beam mount, a venerable .29, good size IMO for a midsized C/L job with at least 400 square inch wing area. I got its slight bigger brother, the .40. Cleaned and bench ran only so far, but it easily turns a 10x6 prop with good wind thrust behind it.

Regarding a 4 engine Babe Bee B-24, Outerzone has one that was originally designed as single channel R/C with 4 .020 TD's.

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=6706 B-24 by Frank Baker from RCMplans (ref:195) December 1966, 60in span

Outerzone photo from magazine article.

Someone has provided a clone of it, photo included on Outerzone, but the engine nacelles are non-scale, hence why I show Oz's other photo. It could be modified easily to accomodate 4 Babe Bee's, even convert to C/L use.

I have a couple of RS meters that are still used often….. I’ve had to fix the leads on the analog meter a few times but still like it for certain things….

The McCoy looks very sturdy!!…. I remember seeing these advertised in AHC in the 70’s and 80’s…. They seemed to be priced very reasonably…...It cleaned up really nicely with the Berryman’s ….Unique power plant

Nice look George, especially head-on.............Maybe someday.



and, your post gave me the push to finally remove the cowl from my second Nieuport 28 to check the displacement of the McCoy. I know I put a .29 in my first one, but could not remember what I installed in the second. Turns out to be a .35. I need to fly it (probably never will, but who knows) to see what difference the extra displacement makes.

Cutting the hole in the spun aluminum cowl was easy with a hole saw but you need to make a buck out of a 2X4 that fits tightly inside or you risk deformation.

rdw777 wrote:I have a couple of RS meters that are still used often….. I’ve had to fix the leads on the analog meter a few times but still like it for certain things….

Robert, I had that same, R.S. Micronta VOM, kept it as cherry as possible, was handy and used it for all sorts of things, purchased it in college some 45 years ago, maybe more. It finally bit the dust not long ago, was heavily used for just about everything electrical from electronics to vehicles, motorcycles to house wiring, etc. Also have R.S. logic probe, used on the slower digital circuits of 35 years ago.

Then moved on. Found that the least expensive digital VOM's by Harbor F. were easy to damage in say, an overvoltage condition, no built in protections. Do by accident by not selecting right scale, it will still show an output, but reading will be way off. Cheap is not always good.

rdw777 wrote:The McCoy looks very sturdy!!…. I remember seeing these advertised in AHC in the 70’s and 80’s…. They seemed to be priced very reasonably…...It cleaned up really nicely with the Berryman’s ….Unique power plant

Back around 1974, the Hickam AFB Exchange Hobby Shop on the base next to Honolulu was doing a clearance on these Blackheads. I picked up a half dozen and so did my brother, for around $6 each. Seems nobody wanted them. Then because they were losing sales to mail order hobby stores, closed around 1975. Was sad to see that happen as these military base hobby shops were very well stocked with everything from engines to radios to C/L support gear, balsa, paints, glues and you-name-it.

Don't know what ever happened to all those engines, only have the one now, the .40 Black Head. Broke it in some Summer's ago, was impressed how well it ran. It's downfall was its heavier weight over the legacy Red Head and similar engines of the time.

rsv1cox wrote:Nice look George, especially head-on.............Maybe someday.



and, your post gave me the push to finally remove the cowl from my second Nieuport 28 to check the displacement of the McCoy.  I know I put a .29 in my first one, but could not remember what I installed in the second.  Turns out to be a .35.  I need to fly it (probably never will, but who knows) to see what difference the extra displacement makes.

Cutting the hole in the spun aluminum cowl was easy with a hole saw but you need to make a buck out of a 2X4 that fits tightly inside or you risk deformation.

Bob, I can see all sorts of possibilities with that B-24's outlines, including even a profile version for quicker building.

You got some good technique pointers in preventing damage to a fragile spun cowl, also good advice for other fragile cowls. That cowling has the cleanest engine clearance holes I have ever seen.

Regarding the difference between the Black Head .29 and .35, just think that the .35 is just .049 larger than the .29 engine. Then one can see that in most cases, the .29 will do as well as the .35, gives opportunity for best matches with props, etc.

I looked at Roberts Multimeter and thought.........I had one of those.  Long lost now.



Then George wrote:

Robert, I had that same, R.S. Micronta VOM

"Great minds think alike"........

I culled out some of my series 21's.  One of each pictured. A bagged and marked .19 that I last ran in July of 2015, a .29, a .35 and a .40 (orange spinner) .29, .35, and the .40 all look the same externally.



JW mount, before and after a Berrymans 20 minute soak.

Howdy guys,I have a series 21 .29 thank runs strong.i guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.my dad had had several red head .19s that ran well,me and my brother bought him a series 21 .19 for his birthday,he promptly took it back to the hobby shop,traded it in on a veco bb .19,put that engine on a Jr ring master,that thing was a rocket!

049kid wrote:Howdy guys,I have a series 21 .29 thank runs strong.i guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.my dad had had several red head .19s that ran well,me and my brother bought him a series 21 .19  for his birthday,he promptly took it back to the hobby shop,traded it in on a veco bb .19,put that engine on a Jr ring master,that thing was a rocket!

No wonder why, according to: Sceptre Flight: Veco BB .19 C/L review by Peter Chinn, it put out 0.38 BHP at 15,500 RPM. (Weighs 6.2 ounces.)

Per Sceptre Flight: Testors Series 21 .19 C/L Review by Peter Chinn, it put out 0.32 BHP at 14,000 RPM, 0.06 BHP less than the Veco! (Weighs 7.76 ounces.)

This is considering that they both ran on the same fuel with 5% nitro content. The Veco is also 1.56 ounces lighter than the Testors.

I could understand why the Ringmaster Junior was a rocket. I've flown mine on both an OS Max .15FP-S (8x4 prop) and Enya .15-III TV (8x6 prop), and it could easily be a rocket with both those engines. Running wet 2, I was getting 4 second laps on 60 foot lines, plus, the engines are a little on the heavy side, making it very nose heavy. Adding weight to the tail, I had the barbell effect.

I think it was Ken who mentioned to me that the OS Max .15FP-S would have no problem powering the regular 42 inch span full size Ringmaster.

A lighter older OS Max .15 or Schneurle .10 unmuffled, or even a Fox .15-X would be about right.

Sounds like you had real fun with your dad, @049kid .

The 21 series group looks great Bob…. The Testors wood grained print engine box says 70’s for sure!!….. The Firebaby firewall cleaned up nice…. Mine was dull with age too…
After initial cleaning I gave it a good buffing with Harbor Freight green polishing compound and a buffing wheel in a Dremel tool….Finished up by rubbing with a soft cloth… Same on most of the other metal parts on the plane as well….Saw an opportunity for some bling LOL!!

rdw777 wrote:Saw an opportunity for some bling LOL!!

Back in 1966, I remember my brother's chrome plated Wen-Mac F4U corsair C/L RTF with .049 engine. It was a thing to behold as shiny as it was.

I love the bling appearance of @fredvon4's Cox Engine Contest entries, he knows how to "spit-shine" those crankcases and tanks!

Bling works good on model airplanes and motorcycles.

GallopingGhostler wrote:Bling works good on model airplanes and motorcycles. lol! This Site Rocks!

I agree George….Kind of like mag wheels on old hot rods too!!

Berrymans a start.    The brown spot is epoxy which Berrymans will not touch.  The engines backplate left it's signature too.



I showed the Perry Carb'ed .40 a little love this afternoon.  Both engine and carburator locked up tight with castor goo.  Heat gun and MMO fixed that.  





I love the things despite the drawbacks - weight, bushed no bearings, uncool.  Perhaps that's why.  I have many, many cool engines but these orphans get my attention.  Thinking I will run a couple tomorrow, especially the .40.  

Oh yeah.  Not so smart........I couldn't get the transmitter on the cheap $17 drone to turn on.  Tried for a couple of days.  Mark came over and punched the big button in the middle and took it outside and flew it around.  

You see, I was reading the instructions.  Something that I never should do......

Say's "One button on/off."




Also, I tried my newly repaired (new 550 21V motor) on some tree branches only to discover that I had reverse wired the terminals and the chain was running backwards.  50/50 chance of that as the terminals were not marked and the motor is free to turn in it's housing.  



Oh well, tomorrow is another day presenting more opportunities to screw up.

rsv1cox wrote:I showed the Perry Carb'ed .40 a little love this afternoon.  Both engine and carburator locked up tight with castor goo.  Heat gun and MMO fixed that.  


I love the things despite the drawbacks - weight, bushed no bearings, uncool.  Perhaps that's why.  I have many, many cool engines but these orphans get my attention.  Thinking I will run a couple tomorrow, especially the .40.

Bob, I was surprised how well my .40 CL/FF version ran well once broke in. They are easy to get running. With the Dyke's piston ring, should have a long life span.

They have their place. Well matched to an airframe, they can be loved, along with other unloveds, the OS Pet .099's, earlier Fox .15's, A.C. Gilbert .074 and .11 Thunderheads, even the Testors .049 "pipebomb" product, Red Heads and Blue Heads, K&B Sportster Schneurles & .35 Stallions engines.

They all have their place.

They have their place. Well matched to an airframe, they can be loved, along with other unloveds, the OS Pet .099's, earlier Fox .15's, A.C. Gilbert .074 and .11 Thunderheads, even the Testors .049 "pipebomb" product, Red Heads and Blue Heads, K&B Sportster Schneurles & .35 Stallions engines.

Hi George, I have all of them except the OS Pet .099, somehow I have missed those. Most of the others were bought in broken or gummed up condition.

Except for a couple of recent JW .049's I have given up buying model engines. I think I reached saturation a couple of hundred ago, not that I haven't enjoyed them. Most gave me an education and put me to work cleaning/repairing. I think the straw that broke the Camels back was when I got tied up with these highly styled Evolution engines that were new or unused. I'm afraid to run them, but they have eye appeal and remind me of the Series 21 McCoys.

rsv1cox wrote:I have all of them except the OS Pet .099, somehow I have missed those. Most of the others were bought in broken or gummed up condition.

Except for a couple of recent JW .049's I have given up buying model engines. I think I reached saturation a couple of hundred ago, not that I haven't enjoyed them. Most gave me an education and put me to work cleaning/repairing. I think the straw that broke the Camels back was when I got tied up with these highly styled Evolution engines that were new or unused. I'm afraid to run them, but they have eye appeal and remind me of the Series 21 McCoys.

Bob, I'm not sure what JW is. AFAIK, the Evolution engines (don't have one) seemed to be well made. I found their .46 remote needle assemblies worked perfectly on my Testors .35 Red Heads well. Bolt spacing matched the crankcase back bolt spacing. Too bad the NVA's dried up when Sanye stopped manufacturing the Evolutions.



@sosam117 would have a better handle on the OS Pets as he is intimately familiar with Japanese engines, especially the ones that were mostly marketed in the Orient. I have just one good one, the last OS Pet .099 C/L version before discontinuing their manufacturing.



I did the same as you, picking up "bastard case" engines for next to nothing and rehabilitating them. Although in a very small few cases that were truly bad (@Ken Cook helped me rescue a K&B .20 Sportster with a couple of his parts engines and gifted me Fox .09 Rocket parts - .09 was OK but parts are a rarity),

The craziest thing that happened to me was with a very nice Castor locked Enya .09-III TV without muffler and with the exhaust baffle plate ganged to RC Carb. I bid something like $12 for it and won it. It looked a little rustic. At home, I cleaned it up, removed linkage and baffle rust, bench ran it.

It fired up immediately, had extremely good compression like a low time engine. Stoked, I PM'd the seller thanking him. He actually got peeved at me! I didn't steal it from him, there were no other bidders, and how could I guess that had he cleaned it up, could have gotten a higher bid on it? Mounted it on an old Hobby Shack foam Cessna 180 ARF for Cox tanked .049's and had the ball of my life flying it, turned it from trainer to decent sport plane, total fun on 3 channels.



All people are normal until you get to know them.

JW = Jim Walker George.  Just me trying to save strokes.

My morning.  I swapped the leads on the mini chainsaw, big difference.....it now works running in the right direction.

Cut some vines that are killing my trees.



Went to run the .40 McCoy only to find my "Big boy" engine test mount all gummed up to the point of being unusable, so it got the Berrymans treatment.







So I used my smaller Tatone instead.  I try not to use it for anything over .25 but It's safety pinned in the mounting holes.  But I decided not to hitch up a fuel tank, opting instead to run it off the prime which it did enough for me to know that it will run should I want it to.



No big cleanup necessay so I just loaded the intake and exhaust ports with Remoil and flipped until I got hydraulic lock then turned it over exhaust port down and let the excess Remoil drain.  More CW and CCW flips until it was clear.  Cleans out all the castor goo leaving a thin film of Remoil.  




Remoil on the chain cleans, lubes, and protects too.  It would be a shame to throw away a perfectly usable tool for want of a $10 part.  

Bob, thanks for clarifying JW. He got himself into cahoots with the model plane community when he sued Cox and lost on the C/L bellcrank copywrite issue, proven in court to be prior art before JW claimed it was his. Leroy Cox was on top of things.

(Not long ago, the Happy Birthday song copyright was voided as it was proven to be prior published art to 1921, (specific performance recording remains copyrighted (1933 I think) but the words and melody are not,) why until then, restaurants used an alternate song so they didn't have to pay royalties to a behemoth music arts company. That company wanted to charge some $1,500.00 US to use the song in a literary work, hence why writer sued and won.)

Both your engine and stand cleaned up nicely, will consider the Berryman treatment in future.

The .40 has the power of a modern Schneurle .25, so it should work. If Tatone had sized it for the engines of the day, then they included a healthy safety factor. Stuff back then was designed to last.

Tatone probably considered vibrational fatigue a factor, hence why some have gotten themselves into trouble using electric props on glow, ignition and diesel engines.

Copyright protection is a serious thing.  Lot's of dollars involved.

I keep calling these engines "McCoy's" when the more proper term would be Testor - McCoys.  



I would love to build a model for one of them.  I have kit's begging me to do so.  But time and storage ................

The test stands aluminum pieces were stuck together to the point where I had to put the bottom half in a vice and knock the top part off with a hammer. Epoxy couldn't have done better to weld them together.