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Post  ZACATTACK Mon May 14, 2012 9:12 pm

dinsdale wrote:
shawn cook wrote:I always thought Rustoleum was a enamel.
I thought that Rustoleum was a single pack epoxy. Does anyone know for sure?
http://www.rona.ca/shop/rust-oleum_paint_shop
Rust Oleum Has Sooo Many products!!
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Post  RknRusty Mon May 14, 2012 9:29 pm

ZACATTACK wrote: LustreCoat in my opinion is not the best paint out there but your trapped and lassoed after you buy the Monokote..that's the problem!! I've had some really bad things happen with LustreCoat but I won't go there. Sometimes I think paint runs are my fault but when it occurs over & over there's something wrong with the product. I had to say it!!
I'm not trapped or lassoed. I have never used any Lustrekote colors, so I don't have an opinion on them. If you don't rush the Rustoleum colored paint and let it off-gas first, then the Lustrekote clearcoat makes it pretty much impenetrable to glow fuel. I clean my planes thoroughly at least within a day of flying, so I don't know if it holds up to long term soaking in exhaust smut.



shawn cook wrote:...This design though can be introduced to 1/2A models as well. I was thinking small rocket tube about 3/4" diameter. This would also take glue well. I want to do this to Combat Kitten I built. The Kitten has a tank in the wing now. I feel that even if you build for a tank, this would give you the option of using both. Certainly something to think about. Ken

I would love to have a bladder in the wing. I looked at it this afternoon but got sidetracked and didn't take any measurements, But I'm not sure there's room for it in the Baby. I'll pump up a bladder and measure the OD so I know what kind of space I need.
I could hang a no pressure balloon where the tank goes. That's better than a wedge and holds more too.
Here's what my balloon tanks look like:
Baby Flite Streak build thread - Page 4 Th_0329121029 Baby Flite Streak build thread - Page 4 Th_SAM_1512

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Post  RknRusty Mon May 14, 2012 9:32 pm

dinsdale wrote:
shawn cook wrote:I always thought Rustoleum was a enamel.
I thought that Rustoleum was a single pack epoxy. Does anyone know for sure?

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Post  Ken Cook Mon May 14, 2012 9:49 pm

I've never used a balloon tank. I think it would be cool. There is a fellow Minnesota Modeller who sells very cool kits. His name is Ray and he goes into detail how he uses the balloon within a 35mm film canister. I know my idea would work with the rocket tube. You had posted on another thread of your bladder set up. The tubing your using for the bladder is thin walled latex I believe. Was this purchased from Texas Timers? That's the stuff to use though. I found that squeezing every drop out at the end of the flying session gives you a lot of longevity with that material. It starts to develop an embolism after a while though. On my example shown on my streak I have just the hole on the top to insert the bladder. The bladder tubing I use for that engine was a wall thickness of almost 3/16" thick and I really have to squeeze to fill it. On 1/2A's I make a hole on the bottom for drainage if it pops. I just checked my prints on the Baby Flitestreak, I also have here 1" model rocket tube. This looks like it would fit in front of the center spar through the w-2 ribs. It would just make it. I feel 3/4" rocket tube would be much better so that hydraulic pressure doesn't blow the ribs out of the model. Ken
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Post  RknRusty Sat May 19, 2012 9:19 pm

All balsa details finished, mistakes corrected and ready for spackling filler to be applied. After sanding the filler tomorrow it's time for painting and covering. I'm not sure in which order that will be done. Still sweating the idea of getting the colors on the wings without screwing it up. I have a plan for the Monokote. Cut out the three color patterns plus some overhang to work with and iron them together on a glass surface. Then put them on the wings. If that fails, I'll keep trying different methods until I have only enough left to cover it with white and paint the other colors on.
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Post  cjuliano Sat May 19, 2012 9:25 pm

cool plane did you cut the wood yourself?
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Post  RknRusty Sat May 19, 2012 11:12 pm

cjuliano wrote:cool plane did you cut the wood yourself?
No, CJ, I would love to be one of the guys that takes the plans, goes out and chops down a balsa tree and builds a plane like this, but I must admit, that's outside my capabilities. The only plane I have scratch built is a Li'l Satan, which is a very simple small plane. It is my favorite flier though, so it was a worthwhile accomplishment. My skill set lies with engines, large and small, and flying my control line planes. If I was healthier and more energetic, I may tell a different story. But as it is,my hobby takes enough time away from my wife and other facts of life. I've done three kits, one scratch, and a rebuild in the past year. This is the most complex plane I've built, and so far the closest to perfect job yet. Of course I'll never smash it and ugly it up. Laughing

I got the fillets done, tiny as they are, and filled all the grain tonight. One more hour or so of sanding and I can paint and apply the Monokote. I expect to start that tomorrow.

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Post  RknRusty Sun May 20, 2012 9:53 pm

Never used Monokote before. Boy does it stink of solvent! The temperatures for glue activation and shrinking are higher and much closer together than Ultracote. I think it's more difficult to handle too. But small wrinkles might be a bit more forgiving when you hit it with the gun. Here are the bottoms. Ignore that read smear, It will be gone next time you see it. That was me experimenting with applying the other colors. I need to go over to the kindergarten across the street and audit a class on cutting and pasting.
Baby Flite Streak build thread - Page 4 FliteStreak

I did the bottom two perfectly, so I had more confidence when I did the first top coat. Damned if I didn't botch a corner wingtip. Not too bad, just a little wrinkle.
Baby Flite Streak build thread - Page 4 0520122203

She's going to be flying very soon.

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Post  Ken Cook Mon May 21, 2012 3:50 am

Rusty, it looks great. I think your wingtip looks great. If you remember, I was telling you about the Flite Streak tips. These are pretty complex going from wide to narrow at the tip. All the material bunches up and this can only be done wrinkle free by pulling the covering around the curve using a heat gun simultaneously. Before you apply the additional colors cleaning with alcohol is a good practice. I use denatured as it evaporates quickly but isopropyl will work. Try not to touch those areas with your hands. A neat trick that works pretty well is to use Windex to install the additional colors. You use only enough Windex on the trim pieces your going to install. This can allow for the pieces to be slid into place and the Windex will activate the adhesive left over night. You must squeegee out all the air. When putting Monokote over Monokote there's a tendency for the underlying layer to bubble up from heat. The air gets trapped and in the event you try ironing it down the bubble becomes larger and larger. This can become a problem where the transition from fixed flap is attached to the trailing edge. This is where I seem to have difficulty not keeping the covering firmly attached into this crease. When you do apply the trim pieces, I would use the lowest setting possible to get it to adhere rather than iron with more heat. This is why the Windex method is preferred as it doesn't generate those bubbles. I haven't quite perfected the Windex method like this fellow has in his Monokote 301 video https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Monokote+301 Looks great though. Ken
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Post  andrew Mon May 21, 2012 8:17 am

shawn cook wrote: ...... A neat trick that works pretty well is to use Windex to install the additional colors. You use only enough Windex on the trim pieces your going to install. This can allow for the pieces to be slid into place and the Windex will activate the adhesive left over night. You must squeegee out all the air.

I've used Windex for some time and it does work pretty well. I have also used it with the sticky adhesive trim sheets. It allows me to move the trim around before it gets stuck into a spaghetti shaped mess.

The downside to Windex is when you have trim that comes to a point. Over time, since the adhesive does not stick as well as when heat activated, the points will tend curl. I usually will paint the seams with clear dope after cleaning the surface --- once sealed, they tend to stay down.
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Post  RknRusty Mon May 21, 2012 9:55 pm

Thanks for the advice, guys. I finished the white covering tonight. Ken you weren't kidding about it being hard to get it to stick between the flap and TE. I got the bubbles all out, but it kept pulling loose. I finally heated it a little at a time and then pressed firmly with my thumb until the glue cooled, and it seems to be staying. I'm off to watch those tutorials on Youtube now.

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Post  Ken Cook Tue May 22, 2012 4:59 am

Rusty, sounds like your on the right path. In the Monokote instructions, they even tell you to heat and use a glove to work it down. I've had to take a pin at times and prick small holes to let the air escape in the problematic areas. It works except that even though the material lays flat, you can still see where the bubble was by the crease it leaves. This can also allow for oil to migrate through those holes. For the most part it's pretty much undetectable. Monokote sells a wood pecker that pricks small holes into the surface prior to covering. This gives trapped air and gasses under the covering a place to go. I've never tried one but it certainly sounds like it would work. I have tried to use Balsarite a very thin adhesive for iron on coverings. This ended in horrific results as this sizzles under the covering when applying creating even more gas and the covering would slide around rather than stick firm. I've had much better success using the covering by itself. Ken
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Post  RknRusty Tue May 22, 2012 9:58 am

Someone, maybe it was Zac, wondered what a BFS airframe weighed before covering and painting. Well I forgot about that until after the base white Monokote was on the wings and a coat of primer on the tail, but I weighed it like that. I don't have a quality scale, but I do have a small Chinese balance. I hung it from a wire on the ceiling and tied the plane to it. All I had for a counter balance was a pyramid fishing sinker. It says 4 ounces on it and I know they vary, but that's how much it weighs like it is. I'm not sure what it's supposed to weigh, but that probably isn't too bad. I think my fully finished Li'l Satan weighed about 1.6 ounces without the Black Widow.

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Post  RknRusty Wed May 23, 2012 11:12 pm

Today I thinned some epoxy and painted the nose all the way back to the wing to fuelproof it. Then I remembered I didn't have a starter spring when I first fitted the engine, so I had to check that for clearance. I ended up doing some carving to get it to fit, and had to sand a few millimeters off the nose so it wouldn't get stuck when it comes off the prop when I crank it. I re-covered that with epoxy and now it's ready for priming and painting.

I tried something new for masking the wings while I spray paint it; Glad Press n' Seal plastic wrap. It's plastic wrap with adhesive on one side. It saves having to mess with masking tape, just lay it on, get it straight and press the edges to stick it. Kind of like Monokote without the iron. The proof will be in the pudding when I find out if it leaks at the edges, but it looks like it'll work. In the morning I'll prime it. Later in the day I can sand it and spray on the colors. Once it's dry enough to handle I will apply the wing colors. By the end of the week I can clear coat it. Maybe... maybe... this weekend I can do the maiden flight. There are always more details than it seems when finishing up.

I'm ready for some new excitement, as I've been grounded with stitches in my hand since May 3rd. Got them out yesterday, finally. If I can't get the maiden in this weekend, I'll fly something. I think I remember how. Whatever I do, I'll make a video. I haven't posted one since the RR1 Li'l Satan video. That's what I'll fly if the Streak isn't ready.

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Post  JPvelo Thu May 24, 2012 12:02 am

How do you thin epoxy?
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Post  John Goddard Thu May 24, 2012 2:08 am

Alcohol spirit
Very Happy
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Post  dirk gently Thu May 24, 2012 4:19 am

My book about model making recommends nitro thinner to thin epoxy. Have to try it.
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Post  fit90 Thu May 24, 2012 7:12 am

Rusty,

Glad to hear the stitches are finally out. Hope all is healing nicely. If the Streak is ready why not fly both planes? It should be at least twice the fun, probably more.

Can't wait to see the video,

Bob
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Post  RknRusty Thu May 24, 2012 9:54 am

I will fly both if the Streak is ready, I'll do a warmup flight with the Satan first anyway. Wouldn't want the RR1 to congeal from disuse. I was being pretty optimistic last night when I posted that schedule but I'm at the mercy of the paint. Gotta make a run to the LHS today, he said my Lustrecote clear would be there by now. I promise big fun soon!
....................................................Baby Flite Streak build thread - Page 4 4201307885-2


Oh, and Bob, I'll be re-reading your 'pressurized tanks' threads today. I have a 2/3oz wedge that I don't have inflated hopes for(npi). For the maiden I might just hang a TT bladder where the wedge is meant to go. It could very well become permanent, but I want to do the pressure system just so I can have that much more experience.
Can I use rosin core electronics solder to fill the nipple before drilling it? If not what do I need to look for at Lowes or the HW store?

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Post  fit90 Thu May 24, 2012 4:58 pm

Rusty,

I have shied away from rosin core because it has uses acid to help clean the surface for the solder. I do not know how I would get the rosin cleaned out/away. I typically use silver solder when I use solder. I also use J B Weld. I think the J B Weld drills easier than the solder. If you want to try rosin core solder just solder something and try to find something like acetone or maybe MEK that might wash the remaining rosin yuck away so it does not end up in the fuel and then eventually the engine. If you go the rosin core route keep us posted on the results and remember that when all else fails J B Weld usually does the trick.

Good luck,

Bob
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Post  mitchg95 Thu May 24, 2012 7:23 pm

fit90 wrote:Rusty,

remember that when all else fails J B Weld usually does the trick.

Good luck,

Bob

good point Rusty, J B Weld held one of my HPI Baja 5b engines together lol after my little bro cracked the crankcase
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Post  RknRusty Thu May 24, 2012 7:57 pm

I have an unopened fresh pack of JB, so that's the route I'll go.

Looks like my clearcoat won't be at the LHS until tomorrow, and I'll go get it Saturday. That's best anyway to let the paint off-gas for a couple of days. So a Sunday maiden is still is a possibility by a thread. Depends on the paint.

The Glad Press N' Seal worked perfectly for masking the wings while I sprayed on the primer. I had to use alcohol to get some of the glue from it off of the Monokote, but it sealed at the edges nicely. I'll wrap it with a fresh mask tonight.

The primer is sanded and shiny, so I'm going out in an hour or so to paint the fuse red and blue. I have to make a sharp line where the colors meet. I have blue 3M painters tape for that.I'll probably have to wait until tomorrow to stick the tape on the fresh paint. Unless you all have a better idea.

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Post  ZACATTACK Thu May 24, 2012 9:53 pm

What did you do with the Epoxy & Alocohol Rusty?? Thanks!
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Post  RknRusty Thu May 24, 2012 10:08 pm

ZACATTACK wrote: What did you do with the Epoxy & Alcohol Rusty?? Thanks!
I mixed epoxy on a piece of graph paper and after I got it started blending I squirted it with a syringe of denatured alcohol(not the 70% drugstore stuff), and continued to blend. I shot it a couple of times until it would go on reasonably thin with a paint brush. I painted the whole nose in front of the wing to fuelproof it. It does not change the glue's work time.

I got the red on it tonight. It's beautiful, looks just like glass. I left the masking on. I hope it's okay to wait until tomorrow to peel it off. But I had to pack in for the night, so hopefully it comes off without pulling the paint up. I'll put the blue on it tomorrow and get my clearcoat from the store Saturday.

I might start putting the stripes on the wings tomorrow too.

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Post  Cribbs74 Thu May 24, 2012 10:47 pm

It sounds all good.....Bring on the pics! Your covering job is superb. Is this your first go around with monokote? If so bravo! My first plane looked like a hammered turd. I even covered the whole thing without taking the backing off. lol!
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